English Field Trials Vs US Trials

Wilhelm

Banned
About British Field Trials

British Field trials differ quite substantially from the field trials and hunt tests held in the states.

American trials are test contrived by judges in controlled environments, which are meant to simulate an actual hunting experience. Dogs are run individually on exactly the same test pattern.

Contrarily, a British or Irish Field Trial is conducted on an actual day's hunt, where all dogs work from a line on a driven or walk-up shoot in a field, woodland setting or over water.




There are three types of field trials recognized by The Kennel Club of Britain: a 12-dog (one day), a 16- dog and the 24-dog (two day). Each trial will host 3 or 4 judges.
All trials are actual shoots involving gunfire and live game in free flight. Designated shooters (guns) are in the line with handlers and judges. Dogs are sent from each side of the line in prescribed order, each instructed to "pick up" the specifically identified fallen game.


Numerous birds, hares and rabbits may be shot on the drive before a retrieve is requested.
The shot game my well fall among unflushed game, yet when sent, the successful retriever must pick the specific fall requested by the judge while ignoring all other live and fallen game.
In an Irish trial, it is not unusual for a drive to result in 50 birds down at one time before retrievers begin!

Once a trial begins, all dogs form in one of two lines for the shoot. At this time the dogs' leads are removed and they are expected to remain quiet and at heel, without verbal correction, throughout the entire drive.

The actual qualification of an outstanding British Field Trial Retriever is, above all else, their game-finding ability. The dog that quickly and stylishly locates and retrieves to hand both dead and wounded game whose location is unknown to the guns or which perhaps lies in difficult terrain will be recognized.

A good trial dog, as well as an excellent personal shooting retriever, needs to possess a good nose, wide range, a soft mouth and remain under complete control of the handler.
A dog on the line of a trial must be rock steady and absolutely quiet. Should a dog as much as whine, move in off the line or require a verbal reminder of such manners, he is promptly eliminated.

The amazement to many is how calm these dogs are on the line in the company of strangers and other dogs; remain under the pressure of constant gunfire and multiple game falls; distinguish between wounded and live game on a retrieve and yet remain absolutely quiet and steady until sent. When sent they run with the speed, drive and style equal to any exceptional retriever.'





Section J(B) 3.a Judges will be selecting dogs that pleases them most by the quality of
its (dog) work from the shooting point of view. They should take natural gamefinding to be of first importance.

Section J(B)4.g A good gamefinding dog should not rely on the handler to find game.
It should however, be obedient and respond to its handler?s signals when necessary. Dogs showing gamefinding ability and initiative should be placed above those which have to be handled to their game.

Section J(B) 5.f Credit Points: Natural gamefinding ability, nose, marking ability, style, quickness.



Note: The last time the USA ran a team against International Competition (Eukanuba), we placed 5th.
The Scotch, Welsh, English and Irish have fantastic dogs.

Final results and positions.

Wales 642
England 626
Ireland 583
Holland 575
USA 575
Austria 572
Italy 570
Scotland 561
Sweden 559
France 555
Belgium 553
Canada 539

wildfowling.co.uk
 
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Interesting info on the format, but I can't see much reason to read a whole lot into the results of a single event. Field trials -- all of them -- are among the most subjective competitions that take place on this planet, topping even figure skating and boxing matches that go to a decision. They might rank a little bit behind dog shows in category, but not by much.

That doesn't make them bad, they just are what they are. Everything comes down to the judges and their interpretation of what they witness.

British teams fared the best in a British event conducted under British regulations. Not a real shocker there.
 
Interesting info on the format, but I can't see much reason to read a whole lot into the results of a single event. Field trials -- all of them -- are among the most subjective competitions that take place on this planet, topping even figure skating and boxing matches that go to a decision. They might rank a little bit behind dog shows in category, but not by much.

That doesn't make them bad, they just are what they are. Everything comes down to the judges and their interpretation of what they witness.

British teams fared the best in a British event conducted under British regulations. Not a real shocker there.

Heck I would consider 5th place a damn fine accomplishment. Says a lot about the quality of trainers and dogs in the US. The ability to compete in a new format on foreign turf and be competitive is awesome!

Thanks for posting Wilhelm
 
Interesting info on the format, but I can't see much reason to read a whole lot into the results of a single event. Field trials -- all of them -- are among the most subjective competitions that take place on this planet, topping even figure skating and boxing matches that go to a decision. They might rank a little bit behind dog shows in category, but not by much.

That doesn't make them bad, they just are what they are. Everything comes down to the judges and their interpretation of what they witness.

British teams fared the best in a British event conducted under British regulations. Not a real shocker there.

Not really subjective, as it was conducted on a real LIVE Hunt!
And that losing cripples and whining DQs you. Thats the only interpretation to witness and agreed prior to by all contestants..

Its not a British event per se, its a Hunt, and the Brits dominate these events
 
Heck I would consider 5th place a damn fine accomplishment. Says a lot about the quality of trainers and dogs in the US. The ability to compete in a new format on foreign turf and be competitive is awesome!

Thanks for posting Wilhelm

5th isnt anything to brag about.
It was a Live hunt and the USA dwarfs all other nations in population and dogs.
Not a bad showing but not a good one either. I expected more really.
My friend attended this event sponsored by Euk as he worked for Euk.
 
Not really subjective, as it was conducted on a real LIVE Hunt!
And that losing cripples and whining DQs you. Thats the only interpretation to witness and agreed prior to by all contestants..

Its not a British event per se, its a Hunt, and the Brits dominate these events

you did not run against me. Or any dog for that matter from the mid west. Other news for ya, gotta find every bird and cripple here too. Just to inform the miss informed.:rolleyes: Not sure what breed your talking about here.
 
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5th isnt anything to brag about.
It was a Live hunt and the USA dwarfs all other nations in population and dogs.
Not a bad showing but not a good one either. I expected more really.
My friend attended this event sponsored by Euk as he worked for Euk.

Your score showed a tie for 4th LOL. Bring em over and I will take you hunting and show you what wild bird hunts are.;) You need to clarify. Is this a Lab thing or what.
 
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5th isnt anything to brag about.
It was a Live hunt and the USA dwarfs all other nations in population and dogs.
Not a bad showing but not a good one either. I expected more really.
My friend attended this event sponsored by Euk as he worked for Euk.

Poppycock

You can interpret the results any way you want. But it is still a judged event on foreign soil. Go run the Master National sometime 11 days in a hotel with 2 days of travel before really messes with a dog. Heck many dogs have a tough time traveling and hunting SD for a few days. Check out how many threads there are about getting a dog to eat when on the road. Bring them Brits over hear and see how they fair at a field trial, or the Grand, MN, or SRS. The "British" standard is no easier or tougher, just different. I train my dogs to work the best for my application. If I intended to run British trials I would train for that format. I think to many people get caught up in the nature versus nurture thing. Train your dog for your application and except the fact that you own what ever behavior you condone

PS I just wanted to use Poppycock in a post

PPS. Shot a limit a birds 1/2 hour from home this morning

Steve Goetze
 
Poppycock

You can interpret the results any way you want. But it is still a judged event on foreign soil. Go run the Master National sometime 11 days in a hotel with 2 days of travel before really messes with a dog. Heck many dogs have a tough time traveling and hunting SD for a few days. Check out how many threads there are about getting a dog to eat when on the road. Bring them Brits over hear and see how they fair at a field trial, or the Grand, MN, or SRS. The "British" standard is no easier or tougher, just different. I train my dogs to work the best for my application. If I intended to run British trials I would train for that format. I think to many people get caught up in the nature versus nurture thing. Train your dog for your application and except the fact that you own what ever behavior you condone

PS I just wanted to use Poppycock in a post

PPS. Shot a limit a birds 1/2 hour from home this morning

Steve Goetze


Good points. Good use of poppycock too:thumbsup:

Good deal on the hunt. I am sure you would have got just as many without a lousy lab:)
 
david0311

About British Field Trials

British Field trials differ quite substantially from the field trials and hunt tests held in the states.

American trials are test contrived by judges in controlled environments, which are meant to simulate an actual hunting experience. Dogs are run individually on exactly the same test pattern.

Contrarily, a British or Irish Field Trial is conducted on an actual day's hunt, where all dogs work from a line on a driven or walk-up shoot in a field, woodland setting or over water.




There are three types of field trials recognized by The Kennel Club of Britain: a 12-dog (one day), a 16- dog and the 24-dog (two day). Each trial will host 3 or 4 judges.
All trials are actual shoots involving gunfire and live game in free flight. Designated shooters (guns) are in the line with handlers and judges. Dogs are sent from each side of the line in prescribed order, each instructed to "pick up" the specifically identified fallen game.


Numerous birds, hares and rabbits may be shot on the drive before a retrieve is requested.
The shot game my well fall among unflushed game, yet when sent, the successful retriever must pick the specific fall requested by the judge while ignoring all other live and fallen game.
In an Irish trial, it is not unusual for a drive to result in 50 birds down at one time before retrievers begin!

Once a trial begins, all dogs form in one of two lines for the shoot. At this time the dogs' leads are removed and they are expected to remain quiet and at heel, without verbal correction, throughout the entire drive.

The actual qualification of an outstanding British Field Trial Retriever is, above all else, their game-finding ability. The dog that quickly and stylishly locates and retrieves to hand both dead and wounded game whose location is unknown to the guns or which perhaps lies in difficult terrain will be recognized.

A good trial dog, as well as an excellent personal shooting retriever, needs to possess a good nose, wide range, a soft mouth and remain under complete control of the handler.
A dog on the line of a trial must be rock steady and absolutely quiet. Should a dog as much as whine, move in off the line or require a verbal reminder of such manners, he is promptly eliminated.

The amazement to many is how calm these dogs are on the line in the company of strangers and other dogs; remain under the pressure of constant gunfire and multiple game falls; distinguish between wounded and live game on a retrieve and yet remain absolutely quiet and steady until sent. When sent they run with the speed, drive and style equal to any exceptional retriever.'





Section J(B) 3.a Judges will be selecting dogs that pleases them most by the quality of
its (dog) work from the shooting point of view. They should take natural gamefinding to be of first importance.

Section J(B)4.g A good gamefinding dog should not rely on the handler to find game.
It should however, be obedient and respond to its handler?s signals when necessary. Dogs showing gamefinding ability and initiative should be placed above those which have to be handled to their game.

Section J(B) 5.f Credit Points: Natural gamefinding ability, nose, marking ability, style, quickness.



Note: The last time the USA ran a team against International Competition (Eukanuba), we placed 5th.
The Scotch, Welsh, English and Irish have fantastic dogs.

Final results and positions.

Wales 642
England 626
Ireland 583
Holland 575
USA 575
Austria 572
Italy 570
Scotland 561
Sweden 559
France 555
Belgium 553
Canada 539

wildfowling.co.uk

Every now and then someone who has no clue or real knowledge (like you)brings up this apples to oranges Bullsh--

You are just showing your ignorance of real dog work and competition--
 
Every now and then someone who has no clue or real knowledge (like you)brings up this apples to oranges Bullsh--

You are just showing your ignorance of real dog work and competition--

You didn't mince words. I like that and agree. Wilhelm seems to have drank to much Robert Milner Koolaid.
 
I can't believe some of you are so upset over this. How do you think a british dog would fair in one of our trials? About as well as one of our dogs in their trial format I suspect. The fact is we expect very different things from our dogs than they do across the pond and there's also a big gap between what a hunter expect from his dog as opposed to a trialer, not that some dogs don't do both. I've hunted with springerchaser on here, he trials his dogs and hunts wild birds with them but I've also been to hunt tests and saw a bunch of dogs who from their owner/ handlers talk amongst themselves wild bird hunting was mentioned not once.:confused: How many hunting labs regularly make those rediculously long blind retrieves that they make in trials? How long is a springers run in a trial compared to what we expect of them day in and day out during hunting season? How could I expect such a strong flush from my dogs when I'm hunting gambels quail in the mojave desert where cactus is the only cover?
 
I can't believe some of you are so upset over this. How do you think a british dog would fair in one of our trials? About as well as one of our dogs in their trial format I suspect. The fact is we expect very different things from our dogs than they do across the pond and there's also a big gap between what a hunter expect from his dog as opposed to a trialer, not that some dogs don't do both. I've hunted with springerchaser on here, he trials his dogs and hunts wild birds with them but I've also been to hunt tests and saw a bunch of dogs who from their owner/ handlers talk amongst themselves wild bird hunting was mentioned not once.:confused: How many hunting labs regularly make those rediculously long blind retrieves that they make in trials? How long is a springers run in a trial compared to what we expect of them day in and day out during hunting season? How could I expect such a strong flush from my dogs when I'm hunting gambels quail in the mojave desert where cactus is the only cover?


The intention is clear to those who devote nearly every waking moment to strive for a goal. Quailhound no offence, but trials are different in different areas of the US even.
We have cover. He lays claims to fame that have no merit, and yes, when things are misleading it is offensive to those that work hard on something. I know plenty of people who hunt their dogs, including me. First off I asked what breed, no answer. So this is generalized garbage. Our trials here are broken cover, even retrieves from corn or cattails some times. Some events despite some
thoughts,there is series ran with no flag line too by the way;). Here unlike his 12-24 dog event, we regularly run against 30-60 dogs weekly and 3 series. Their dogs (as far as I know)are not allowed to trap game, ours are, showing greater soft mouth. Unlike what was said, in our trials, dogs are judged by 2, and on use of wind, finds, pace and style, ground coverage, marking, pick up and delivery, control, line manners and more. Also we do not run alone as he said, it is in a brace. Several holes in the claims. Nationals are 120-130 good dogs. Often retrieves in our trials are from wooded areas, not what he claimed. We have trees LOL. Hell the 3rd in my cocker trial is in 20' tall pines lol. Hills valleys etc. ND we run in woods or brush with no flags often. So just because someone sees something somewhere and says it is so, it does not mean it is right. And yes those of us that strive for something much better and much different then what is portrayed by lack of real truth, is offensive.;)
 
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I like trials, the titles earned by dogs who run them are the only real idea hunters have as to a dogs potential if they don't know the two dogs being bred personally and their ability as hunting dogs. I've never been to a trial but I plan on going to one down south in January. Like I said, I've hunted with springerchaser and his dogs and was very impressed. My point was that trials here as opposed to there are very different because of the difference of how dogs are used in hunting from here to over there. I'm pretty sure the example the op gave was about retrievers and I suspect if the boys across the pond brought a team over to compete in an AKC retriever trial they would be lucky to place 5th.
 
PS most cases miss truths, generalized observations, and ridicule will come from those who have no animal that will be able to compete against the very dogs they mock.;)

You and I compete with different breeds in different formats but the hard work, dedication, and effort required is the same. Mutual respect is earned. Cheers to all who walk the walk!
 
I agree. It is also clear in several threads and posts the intention;). This photo shoots some holes in his idea of trials here. This is my dog. Note the cover? Note the water? Yes this is during the "126" dog National. No dock, no mowed yard, and floating bog.Some of them they have even had to bust ice.;) If he is directing it breed specific, then he needs to do so instead of insulting all of American trials.;)

 
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