Elk Hunter Violation?

Pretty rough Just goes to show you, if your hunting out of state you had better know the regs inside and out.
 
My guess is they could issue a citation to almost every elk hunter in Montana if they chose to enforce that to the letter of the law. Here is what the regulation reads:

License Validation and Tagging
Immediately after killing a game animal, a hunter
must cut out the proper month and day of the kill
from the appropriate license and attach it to the
animal in a secure and visible manner.
Click to expand...

But there needs to be a reasonable time to validate the license. And a little common sense would go a long way. It appears Montana needs to review the wording of that part of the regulation.

Here's what it says in the the SD Regs.

Tagging & Transportation
The tag you receive with your license must be
signed, dated and securely attached to the leg
of the big game animal at the time it is brought
to a road or into any hunting camp, farmyard, or
residence, or before it is placed in or on a vehicle.
Click to expand...

Wyoming's reads like this:

DATING AND DISPLAY OF GAME ANIMAL CARCASS COUPONS. When any big game animal, trophy game animal or turkey is killed under a license, the licensee shall detach, sign and date the proper carcass coupon and attach the coupon to the carcass in a readily visible manner before leaving the site of the kill.**
Click to expand...
 
that is about the biggest piece of BS i have read in awhile. I hope they come down on that warden like a ton of bricks. Make him pay for the meat the man lost. The camera man does not have to tell the warden to give the guy a ticket, the warden was just trying to find something to do to get himself on TV. What friggin shame.

Can you imagine if a stunt like that was pulled on a first time hunter? we would lose that hunter for life.
 
Whoa. If most guys believed they had followed the laws and were doing things the right way, and then a warden started to take away their elk I imagine things could get pretty heated in a hurry.

Good point Jmac, about knowing the letter of the law in the state you're hunting.
 
Montana is no longer selling Non Resident Elk Licenses.
Several thousand less NR Hunters is millions of dollars in lost revenue. Stuff like this is not going to help.
There are CO's that are good at what they do and are helpful and informative.
There are also the "shake and bake" types, "a badge and a sidearm", to bad.


Just about every year I come across Wardens while in MT. Most of the time is becomes just a nice visit, sometimes I ask after a while "need to see my license"? "Oh I suppose while I'm here" There's no checking the coolers or anything else for that matter.
I remember three times in 40 some years though. The "spit shined" youngster would check everywhere and everything to work hard at finding anything. One time one of these guys asked "what's all the blood on the tailgate, awful lot for a bird hunter"
I said take a closer look, it was dried gumbo on the tailgate.
All three times by the way there were two FW&P guys, one with the badge and gun and the other in training.
 
Dakotazeb said:
My guess is they could issue a citation to almost every elk hunter in Montana if they chose to enforce that to the letter of the law. Here is what the regulation reads:



But there needs to be a reasonable time to validate the license. And a little common sense would go a long way. It appears Montana needs to review the wording of that part of the regulation.

Here's what it says in the the SD Regs.



Wyoming's reads like this:
Click to expand...

SD and WY law is more realistic and just as effective as MT's.
 
mnmthunting said:
Montana is no longer selling Non Resident Elk Licenses.
Several thousand less NR Hunters is millions of dollars in lost revenue. Stuff like this is not going to help.
There are CO's that are good at what they do and are helpful and informative.
There are also the "shake and bake" types, "a badge and a sidearm", to bad.


Just about every year I come across Wardens while in MT. Most of the time is becomes just a nice visit, sometimes I ask after a while "need to see my license"? "Oh I suppose while I'm here" There's no checking the coolers or anything else for that matter.
I remember three times in 40 some years though. The "spit shined" youngster would check everywhere and everything to work hard at finding anything. One time one of these guys asked "what's all the blood on the tailgate, awful lot for a bird hunter"
I said take a closer look, it was dried gumbo on the tailgate.
All three times by the way there were two FW&P guys, one with the badge and gun and the other in training.
Click to expand...

Wayne, I figured if anybody had experience with these guys from out of state it would be you! To bad they are getting the rap they are, but common sense goes a long way in their profession as well. Sometimes authority can go to a person's ego and therein lies the problem!
 
This is front page story in Duluth paper. If paper is correct CO told them they could lose the animal be waited to confiscate until they pulled it home with a tractor. More camera footage?
 
?Damn it, the people who work (for FWP) should be out looking for poachers, not someone who took 21 minutes to fill out their tag,? Warren Latvala said.

I think this statement says it all! We all make judgement calls that could produce "violations." But in the end we are trying to follow the laws. Conservation Officers need to stop the guys who are taking too many animals, or hunting out of season, or over harvesting. Those are the "violations" they should be worried about!
 
I grew-up in Montana & the regulations have read that way ever since I started hunting back in the 50's. Whenever I harvested an animal, got to the carcass, & ensured it was dead, the first order of business EVERY TIME was to properly & securely tag it, period. Bottom line: A requirement is a requirement; the way to avoid a citation is to understand & comply exactly as directed. I won't deny that every state has a percentage of eager-to-ticket wardens (and I've encountered a few), but even these would be hard-pressed to issue a citation when no violation had occurred. Calling BS on a warden for citing an obvious violation is BS itself. NO violations are okay to overlook. It's too bad that the gentleman's hunting experience left a sour taste in his mouth, but he made the mistake, not the warden. I'll make the leap of faith that the guy's claims of how important complying with hunting rules is to him & that he fully intended to eventually tag the elk carcass, however he didn't tag it immediately as required. There's no room for excusing someone from out-of-state (or a local) because they didn't understand the law. Do you think a stater would drop a speeding ticket because you were used to driving faster because the speed limit was higher where you live? I think not.
 
koja48 said:
I grew-up in Montana & the regulations have read that way ever since I started hunting back in the 50's. Whenever I harvested an animal, got to the carcass, & ensured it was dead, the first order of business EVERY TIME was to properly & securely tag it, period. Bottom line: A requirement is a requirement; the way to avoid a citation is to understand & comply exactly as directed. I won't deny that every state has a percentage of eager-to-ticket wardens (and I've encountered a few), but even these would be hard-pressed to issue a citation when no violation had occurred. Calling BS on a warden for citing an obvious violation is BS itself. NO violations are okay to overlook. It's too bad that the gentleman's hunting experience left a sour taste in his mouth, but he made the mistake, not the warden. I'll make the leap of faith that the guy's claims of how important complying with hunting rules is to him & that he fully intended to eventually tag the elk carcass, however he didn't tag it immediately as required. There's no room for excusing someone from out-of-state (or a local) because they didn't understand the law. Do you think a stater would drop a speeding ticket because you were used to driving faster because the speed limit was higher where you live? I think not.
Click to expand...

Koja thanks for posting this. I wholeheartedly agree. It comes down to personal responsibility.
 
Koja, I agree with everything you said, but here is one thing I can't get out of my head that bothers me about this whole situation. By the time the CO arrived on scene, the animal was tagged. That to me proves he wasn't trying to break the law. That shows me that he wasn't intentionally trying to get away with something. He didn't do it because the CO was on the way he tagged the animal because that is what the law says to do! I think a warning and a clarification on the regulation was in order. That is what the prosecuting attorney felt was appropriate as well. I have been pinched before for not following every regulation to the officers interpretation of the reg. (And that is what they are interpretations) and the guys who explained the law to me from their viewpoint and gave me a warning were well received. Those that want to write tickets give CO's a bad rap.
 
But he didn't tag it immediately, as required. Had he done that, there would have been no citation. I also disagree with the prosecutor not supporting the warden. When we start bending rules, we will soon have no rules, or only major infractions will be cited. A warden has a great job in the outdoors, but it can also be a thankless job. Personally, I appreciate everything wardens do. I may not particularly like all of the rules (and you almost need a law degree to understand those in WA state), but I read them, get clarification if I don't understand them, and follow all of them. I believe everyone else should too. If I ever violate a regulation, inadvertently or intentionally (and "intentionally" will never happen!), I deserve a citation.
 
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One little point: that fact that it was being filmed puts a ton of pressure on the LEO. Subsequent variations on interpretations can only get the Warden in trouble.

Tagging is the first thing I do after making sure the animal is dead. The rules are pretty clear and I don't need the grief.

Every one gets to make a choice. :)
 
Some of you must turn yourself in when you drive 1 mile over the speed limit. Can't bend the rule!!
 
The law is to prevent people from deciding to not use their tag on a animal they shoot.

The law is not to prevent people from taking their time and enjoying the moment of hunting with family.
 
Does Anybody think this guy would have got a ticket if there was not a cameraman with the CO?

To me that is what is most outrageous.
 
And if you stop to take the time to comply with the law & immediately notch the tag & securely attach it to the elk that somehow ruins any chance to savor the moment with family? The only merit associated with delayed tagging such as other states prescribe would be to minimize the potential for a poorly-attached tag to be lost during the drag-out/pack-out. The fact of the matter is that the sooner an animal is tagged, the sooner the potential to NOT tag the animal is eliminated.

IF the warden would normally ignore citing the individual were the camera not present, he shouldn't be a warden. Hunting regulations are established to protect a wild resource, therefore hunting regulations should be uniformly enforced. You can't cherry-pick the rules. Would some of you feel the same if folks were allowed to get-away with the occasional seemingly-minor pheasant hunting regulation/regulations in your area because they drove a long way to get there, wanted to enjoy the moment with family, didn't understand the rules, or didn't commit what you might consider a flagrant violation? Is just a little non-compliance okay? How are you with getting cited for a violation that I only got warned for because I was a visitor/paid more for my tag/didn't thoroughly understand the regulations/was excited & wanted to enjoy the moment?

I was raised to be ethical & honest and I still adhere to that. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't do things that would place you in that position.
 
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