Dog food survey

Vammy said:
Are you guys talking about this Dr. Mercola?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

OK, OK; so it's wikipedia, who doesn't exactly have the higest reputation for accuracy. Still, I'm not buying anything this guy is saying. He's essentially been promoting his own dietary supplements and medical "devices". He's been spanked by the FDA among others for making unsubstantiated claims. Here's a couple items I think are noteworthy:

Mercola's medical claims have been criticized by business, regulatory, medical, and scientific communities. A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial stated his marketing practices relied on "slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics."[3] In 2005, 2006, and 2011, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned Mercola and his company that they were making illegal claims of their products' ability to detect, prevent, and treat disease.[6] The medical watchdog site Quackwatch has criticized Mercola for making "unsubstantiated claims [that] clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations and many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements."[6]

He basically said the Avian flu epidemic was bogus. Tell that to the folks who contracted that particular flu virus.

Another: Phyllis Entis, a microbiologist and food safety expert, highlighted Mercola.com as an example of websites "likely to mislead consumers by offering one-sided, incomplete, inaccurate, or misleading information."[13]

Look, we all want to feed our dogs the best food we can. It's been stated before that not all dogs do well on any specific food. As well, we want to be informed of potential health issues, be it from food or other causes. Perhaps Mercola is but one of a number of places we can go to get information.

I guess what I'm saying is we're all trying to make informed choices. I'm not so sure Mercola is someone I trust enough to provide good information.
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https://www.michfb.com/MI/farm-news/fda-warns-of-possible-link-between-food-canine-heart-disease/

Phyllis Entis is essentially saying the same thing...if it makes you feel better.
 
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Vammy said:
Thanks for that link, I didn't make time to yesterday to look up DCM to see what others might be saying. :cheers:
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thank you.....at least we now seem to be getting some pretty good testimony on causes of DCM.
 
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I think a lot of these foods that contain peas and lentils are probably quite low in animal meat and protein. It wouldn't appear that the presence of peas, lentils, etc. are the root cause, but a lack of amino acids that are contained in red meats, chicken and seafood. When I thought my dog might have a food allergy I searched a lot of different grain-free dog foods. I found many were very low in protein. I settled on a grain-free limited ingredient pork formula from Zignature. The protein was 31% and pork is rich in amino acids. While the food did contain peas, pea flour and chickpeas I wasn't overly concerned about DCM because of the amino acid profile in pork. However, now that I have pretty much ruled out food allergies I have switched back to ProPlan Sport.
 
Dakotazeb said:
I think a lot of these foods that contain peas and lentils are probably quite low in animal meat and protein. It wouldn't appear that the presence of peas, lentils, etc. are the root cause, but a lack of amino acids that are contained in red meats, chicken and seafood. When I thought my dog might have a food allergy I searched a lot of different grain-free dog foods. I found many were very low in protein. I settled on a grain-free limited ingredient pork formula from Zignature. The protein was 31% and pork is rich in amino acids. While the food did contain peas, pea flour and chickpeas I wasn't overly concerned about DCM because of the amino acid profile in pork. However, now that I have pretty much ruled out food allergies I have switched back to ProPlan Sport.
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when i see 3 pea profiles (peas, pea flour and chickpeas) in a dog food formula, that turns the red light on for me! how much of this crap can they pour in as plant based protein and not starve the dog?
legumes and lentils are the common factor in suspect dog food....., meat protein is often in short supply...i am sticking with Pro Plan Sport and using a freeze dried, high protein topper to get the protein and enzyme levels up there.
freeze dried toppers will retain the most important ingredients...all the other kibble is baked repeatedly and loses its nutrients in the process...many pieces to the puzzle.
 
hunter94 said:
when i see 3 pea profiles (peas, pea flour and chickpeas) in a dog food formula, that turns the red light on for me! how much of this crap can they pour in as plant based protein and not starve the dog?
legumes and lentils are the common factor in suspect dog food....., meat protein is often in short supply...i am sticking with Pro Plan Sport and using a freeze dried, high protein topper to get the protein and enzyme levels up there.
freeze dried toppers will retain the most important ingredients...all the other kibble is baked repeatedly and loses its nutrients in the process...many pieces to the puzzle.
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I don't disagree with you about the 3 pea profile but that in and of itself is not the cause of DCM. ProPlan Sport has corn gluten meal, whole grain corn and corn germ meal. Not sure this is a lot better. What I'm saying is that you need to look at the complete food profile. But I guess that's why you and I are now feeding ProPlan Sport. Never heard of a dog with DCM that was on ProPlan Sport.
 
Find one that works for you.

Looking at the rankings IAMs usually rates pretty low. That said, I have been using IAMs for about 20 years now and my Brittany's have done well on it. All dogs hunt well and maintain a fairly consistent weight over the entire year ... When I get the pups they have been fed and come with Diamond. I convert pretty quickly.

I suppose / suspect that many brands offer field trialers and breeders discounts to use their brands as a means of brand awareness and advertising. I am sure they do not feed a dog something that is detrimental, but ...

Two have reached or are 14+ years old. Having three in our house right now I can say stool quantity is fine ... I am not a kennel so maybe I just don't worry about those things.

My prime age dogs get the lamb and rice blend (25% protein) and when they turn 9 they move to the Senior blend. I have had to do very little supplementing with nutritional / homeopathic supplements.

During longer hunts (multiple days to a week long) I often add a quarter pound (or so) 80% or 85% ground hamburger to their food. This ups the protein and gets them to eat on some evenings when they just do not want to eat. This has never effected their digestive system ... ie. diarrhea the next day.

I feed them very lightly in the morning if they are not going to be in the field for a few hours.

They get a high protein biscuit or two during the hunting day and have been known to get a bite of my sandwich if I pack a lunch.

I think if I went grain free, I would make my own dog food from wild game and store purchased meat.

I have watched on multiple occasions what sled dog owners feed their large packs ... that in itself is a separate topic.
 
Nasty-G said:
Been feeding ProPlan Sport to all of my dogs for years. Absolutely see no reason to change.
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while i am not a fan of corn and grains as ingredients, the cheap additive of legumes and lentils are evidently not able to be processed (by the dog) as a source of protein and enzymes are intended to be....and in fact are a poor source of nourishment for the dogs vital organs. i have read these 2 reports over and over again...amino acids, enzymes and meat based protein are the missing food blocks in too many kibble type dog foods. heat processed kibble is inherently short of nutrients because it has been cooked to death (think your veggies, when over cooked, they lose a lot of vitamins and minerals too)....ands holds very little of anything that the dog needs for good health and longevity....i only know what i read and often i miss some finer points, sorry....i am with Zeb.....PPP has been around for a long time and they have used corn in their dog food forever....at this time, i feel safe feeding it to my dog.....but i am going to supplement with a high protein, freeze dried topper to ensure (i hope) a more high quality protein food source. i am sure we will learn more as this issue is going to hit dog food manufactures right in the wallet...i hope they listen!
 
Chestle said:
Since almost all the DCM research mentions the need for more meat protein and less plant/vegetable protein I guess it matters to me. YMMV .
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From the Purina website.

Ingredients
Chicken, Corn Gluten Meal, Brewer's Rice, Animal Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols (Form of Vitamin E), Poultry By-Product Meal (Natural Source of Glucosamine), Whole Grain Corn, Corn Germ Meal, Fish Meal (Natural Source of Glucosamine), Animal Digest, Fish Oil, Dried Egg Product, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Phosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Garlic Oil, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Sodium Selenite. W-4461.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (Min)...30.0%
Crude Fat (Min)...20.0%
Crude Fiber (Max)...3.0%
Moisture (Max)...12.0%
Linoleic Acid (Min)...1.8%
Calcium (Ca)(Min)...0.9%
Phosphorus (P)(Min)...0.7%
Selenium (Se)(Min)...0.30mg/kg
Vitamin A (Min)...15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min)...500 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid* (Min)...100mg/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)*(Min)...0.12%
Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)*(Min)...0.12%
Glucosamine* (Min)...500 ppm
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
Feeding Instructions
 
Has anyone of you ever tried an independent company, i.e. "Dog Food Adviser" to get answers to your questions, complete breakdown analysis, ratings of all brands, reports of recalls on all dog & cat food brands, etc. If so, disregard this message. If not, you could always write them.
 
birdshooter said:
The problem with that is whole meat by itself contains up to 70% water when we're talking dog food ingredients. The whole meat vs meat meal comparison can be very confusing.

Here is a basic explanation of the two: https://bullymax.com/truth-meal-meal-dog-food/
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this whole dog food issue is a mess....so much misinformation out there, but i think we (me, I) can assume the proliferation of DCM is directly related to the use of lentils, legumes and potatoes as filler and plant based protein sources, which are not well assimilated by canines. knowing what % of total protein is meat based vs. plant based is my real concern. the dog food makers won't post those numbers on the bag or on their websites. this green crap is cheap filler and they count it as part of the total protein content of their food.....but the canine digestive tract is not able to utilize most of this protein, so whatever meat based protein in the food is all the true nutrition your dog gets from his kibble....so the unintended consequence is your dog ends up starved for protein....at the least, which can cause DCM due to low taurine content and a shortage of amino acids and enzymes that healthy dogs need....(only know what i read and have access to, but nutritionists are mostly in agreement).

there is more to the story than this, but not being an expert and being short on FDA findings, this is my own conclusion.... corn has been recently poo-pooed by the human health conscious generation (think all the plant based hamburger substitutes being pushed now at the burger joints) and the dog food makers shifted out of corn and into veggies, assuming consumers would also feel better about what they fed their dogs....but their was no research done prior to using veggies as a replacement...and this green crap is even cheaper than corn.....so now the big box pet food stores are crammed with almost all grain free kibble.....(almost impossible to buy dog food with corn)......BUT remember this, DCM just started to become an issue several years after grain free kibble was introduced....coincidence?
 
Yes, 70% or more water. 25 years ago there weren't that many players in the game. Purina, was & still is a major player & rightly so. But, there #1 ingredient back then in their HI Pro was corn. Today, when talking apples to apples, vs all brands & contents, the consumer is left scratching his head. "Dog Food Adviser" as I mentioned before, takes an independent look & breaks down some of this for you. And, also lets you know what recalls are out there, if any, from the manufacturers, which you might never had heard of. Is it complete? Maybe not. We all have choices.
 
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