Dangerous seeds

Sounds like it to me John, between the toes is one of the easiest places for awns go. I agree that the stuff shouldn't be planted in CRP mixes but out west cheatgrass is literally every where and the only way to avoid it is to not hunt at all. I check in between my dogs toes regularly throughout the hunt and try to always keep the feet trimmed tight.
 
poor bogey

bogey, now deceased, a few years back got a small lump on his side, high near the back rear. didn't seem to be sore, but after a time, did seem to grow. first up was antibiotic, no help, 2nd up was a trip to my fishing buddy the vet. he lanced it, got a small piece of weed, more antibiotics and a few weeks later the lump had moved and was growing. back to guy, he lanced it again and again found some weed, now he new he finally got it, more antibiotic but the lump then became someplace else and slightly larger. at this point the weed, a grassy awn, foxtail, had move quite a ways from his right rear flank towards his shoulder. guy said the problem was over his head due to the fact that he kept not getting it all and how far it had traveled and whether or not it had penetrated the chest cavity. bogey was still not sore nor had he lost any enthusiasm. he made bogey an appointment at Colorado state university vet school and there he went. they started cutting where the awn was first found and kept cutting following where it had traveled, all in all about 18" it had moved, luck if there were some was that it was traveling along the rib cage and never got a foot hold to enter the chest cavity. they sowed bogey up, gave me nearly 6 months worth or antibiotic, he had already been on the stuff for several, and home he went. besides the pieces that guy found, CSU found another piece that was over an inch long. besides the distance that these weeds/seeds can travel, they are especially filthy little buggers. had it found a way into the chest cavity, bogey wouldn't have made it. bogey suffered no ill health because of this, the seed/weed must have been picked up late season so the down time was right. I think that at some time in the field he stopped to roll, don't really know, but also don't think any amount of checking would have amounted to much. at this time I had never heard of such a thing and wouldn't have believed it if you told me about it. at the time there was a study going on about this very subject, bogey's info was sent into the group doing the study. bogey ended up hunting 15 seasons.

cheers
 
mustistuff said:
bogey, now deceased, a few years back got a small lump on his side, high near the back rear. didn't seem to be sore, but after a time, did seem to grow. first up was antibiotic, no help, 2nd up was a trip to my fishing buddy the vet. he lanced it, got a small piece of weed, more antibiotics and a few weeks later the lump had moved and was growing. back to guy, he lanced it again and again found some weed, now he new he finally got it, more antibiotic but the lump then became someplace else and slightly larger. at this point the weed, a grassy awn, foxtail, had move quite a ways from his right rear flank towards his shoulder. guy said the problem was over his head due to the fact that he kept not getting it all and how far it had traveled and whether or not it had penetrated the chest cavity. bogey was still not sore nor had he lost any enthusiasm. he made bogey an appointment at Colorado state university vet school and there he went. they started cutting where the awn was first found and kept cutting following where it had traveled, all in all about 18" it had moved, luck if there were some was that it was traveling along the rib cage and never got a foot hold to enter the chest cavity. they sowed bogey up, gave me nearly 6 months worth or antibiotic, he had already been on the stuff for several, and home he went. besides the pieces that guy found, CSU found another piece that was over an inch long. besides the distance that these weeds/seeds can travel, they are especially filthy little buggers. had it found a way into the chest cavity, bogey wouldn't have made it. bogey suffered no ill health because of this, the seed/weed must have been picked up late season so the down time was right. I think that at some time in the field he stopped to roll, don't really know, but also don't think any amount of checking would have amounted to much. at this time I had never heard of such a thing and wouldn't have believed it if you told me about it. at the time there was a study going on about this very subject, bogey's info was sent into the group doing the study. bogey ended up hunting 15 seasons.

cheers
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guy's bill was a couple of bottles of my wine, a jar of pickles and some home made jam plus 1/2 a Kansas turkey. the bill however fro CSU was just under $900. bogey was worth every penny though

cheers again
 
They are definitely nasty things. I've pulled them out of my dogs eyes, nose, gums and paws. Luckily I've never had one migrate.
 
There is a dye that can be injected in the area of the cist or sore. Normally from what I am told by friends that went through it. I was told that the sore will most likely be the area it started. They dig a big hunk out and many times as said above will not get the seed. Because it moves. The dye will travel the wound track and stop at the current location of the seed. They then can ultrasound or xray the dog and see the path and where it is. Then remove it with out hacking the dog from one end to the other. In the case above. But if it collapses a lung, or goes through some internal vital organs, your paying several thousands to get them possibly patched up. I have friends that have had them up the sheath of the males privates, eaten, through the nose or mouth, eyes, skin on the side of the dog, and feet. I understand what you say about wild cheat grass QH. Not much to do there. But, CRP, and all the other land management areas can do something about the continued use of them. A heavy dose of an antirobic antibiotic is what will be needed. You can try that first, but often when stopped it will just fester up again. yes dirty, they leave a trail of infection where they travel. I could post a lot of good field champion dogs name on here that are dead or forever changed. I consider this 1,000,000,000 times more likely to kill your dog then a silly trap.;)
 
I'd probably second the trap analogy FCS! My buddy lost his 2 year old female setter after the end of this season sue to a plant foreign body and the infection it caused. She just stopped eating and lost weight. He got her in and it was too late. Spent some serious cash to have to dig a grave anyway! If for no other reason, this is a good reason to learn what those plants look like so you can avoid places where they are visibly numerous! You can't dodge them all, but some spots are just set up bad with them. Downy brome down here is that way! The after hunt check in all the likely places is really important!
 
Sorry PD. Yes it does not discriminate which breed. It is hard to go through. Dealing with it in the wild on its own is not so bad. Our prolem is getting pheasants forever, and the usda to stop planting vast fields of the stuf that we will be coming to with our dogs. Old brome goes out and new crp programs going in have it. Why I don't hunt public hunting that has been redone up here. 99% of my hunting is private land. We will be running out of good places to hunt that are safe for the dogs before to long. Sad.
 
It's one thing where it sticks in the dog's coat or toes and you have a chance to find it post-hunt. It's another for them to inhale it and make entry that way. There are plenty of ways to lose a dog in the field without us making more. It is interesting just how many of them are introduced species! When will we learn that the Good Lord had things right before we got here and anything we add has a chance of becoming a problem.
 
Troy we have been fighting them for years now. They call us nuts. We need folks from all breeds to step up and bug them. We are hoping some day it gets to the right person who will actually do something about it. I have been successful at the local level informing folks and they then require it to be removed from a new mix. But they don't clean the drill so people get it anyway. That happened to me. So I had to kill it. Yes they can swallow it, get in an eye, inhale, sheath of the males penis has happened, and just flat out burrow in the coat has happened a lot. I see some redone federal wpa's all over that are just full of it. One new 700 acre crp patch here, solid. I just shake my head. This property would be a superb place to hold a national, but we can't. Sounds like we just lost a 2013 NFC to a seed. I don't know how many more bodies we have to pile up before they wake up. The biologists are those that are head strong. The degree trumps common sense. Even being at pheasant fest every year informing many people, it still goes on. PF announced one time in public they would stop. But then like a year later came out with mixes that have it in again. :( It is a horrible thing to go through. And if you save your dog, it will likely be a university and very expensive. Most will be told they believe it is cancer, and folks will just put the dog down not even knowing. A vet here has been using a radio graphic dye, that follows the wound track to the seed, then is able to get it. That has worked on 3 dogs in our club alone.
 
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I'm doing a habitat project on about 40 acres and plan on using a SDGFP program to do it--HOWEVER--I did some research on what they would plant and guess what--yep it contains good old CWR :(--if they won't modify that then the deals off and I will find another way.:D Might just do it on my own--then I will be able to control what happens. I'm also working with a brand new PF biologist on other potential habitat projects on my land and we are going to talk about the mean seed problem--I wonder how much he knows about it--gonna find out. :thumbsup:
 
Jim, bring that young bio into the modern age:) A lot of them have a good educational background, but they often are severely lacking on practical experience. Often too they are lacking of focused knowledge. School is great about teaching ecological generalities, less so at getting things down to the species level. Work together and you should come up with a good project!
 
Jim it would shock you how many of them there biologist types I talked with that have no dog, and do not hunt;). Do "not" let them put that on your land or any variety of that nature. It has several names. Virgina and Canada are the 2 common ones. And make darn sure that drill is 100% clean before they use it on your land. I did my own mix with a grower, custom. And they never cleaned the drill. So guess what, I got the last guys seed too. And yes CWR. I had to do a kill 3 years in a row. I never paid them for their service, nor did they dare bill me. Lucky I did not sue in reality. But that's just not my nature. A good old ear full is what they got :D. Hope they work with you, but yes if he tries to BS you and push weight, say get lost its "my" land.:cheers:
 
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I am finally mean seeds free on my restoration. First off, I did not know any better to begin with, and trusted my prairie source. I'm 9 years into my restoration, and didn't start fighting the fight until 3 years ago. It's actually pretty easy to control if you have the right equipment and resources, and good timing. I mentioned the mean seeds to my prairie source and he blew it off. Told me that those dog guys didn't know what they were talking about. I had him and his wife out yesterday, and informed him that I eradicated the CWR, Horsetail Barley that I had. He did not question why, but knew. Everything he plants has CWR in it.

With that said, he also told me that my restoration was as nice of a piece as he has seen in a long, long time. Doing it properly, is very time consuming...

I had a buddy that spent 6500 at Iowa State university on his 6 year old Brittany, and brought her home in a box. This was several years ago, and it was a respiratory problem. I'm guessing it was a mean seed also because they never ever got a diagnosis.
 
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reddog said:
I am finally mean seeds free on my restoration. First off, I did not know any better to begin with, and trusted my prairie source. I'm 9 years into my restoration, and didn't start fighting the fight until 3 years ago. It's actually pretty easy to control if you have the right equipment and resources, and good timing. I mentioned the mean seeds to my prairie source and he blew it off. Told me that those dog guys didn't know what they were talking about. I had him and his wife out yesterday, and informed him that I eradicated the CWR, Horsetail Barley that I had. He did not question why, but knew. Everything he plants has CWR in it.

With that said, he also told me that my restoration was as nice of a piece as he has seen in a long, long time. Doing it properly, is very time consuming...

I had a buddy that spent 6500 at Iowa State university on his 6 year old Brittany, and brought her home in a box. This was several years ago, and it was a respiratory problem. I'm guessing it was a mean seed also because they never ever got a diagnosis.
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Glad you got it worked out. Guys like that are the problem.... Know it alls, and let me guess? Does not hunt with a dog? I did post here a while back about how to easily kill it off and keep your warms at the same time. In case anyone wants to see how to do it. I had a friend call the other day who is doing a planting. So I was able to get him on the right track and info. They will be redoing the WPA that borders me, and I am trying to get them to leave it out. I doubt it will work. Everything they plant has it in.
 
FCSpringer said:
Glad you got it worked out. Guys like that are the problem.... Know it alls, and let me guess? Does not hunt with a dog? I did post here a while back about how to easily kill it off and keep your warms at the same time. In case anyone wants to see how to do it. I had a friend call the other day who is doing a planting. So I was able to get him on the right track and info. They will be redoing the WPA that borders me, and I am trying to get them to leave it out. I doubt it will work. Everything they plant has it in.
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I wish we had a high powered attorney to file suit against any associations, departments, including right down to the individuals who propagate this travesty. It's the same principle as creating a dangerous nuisance statute. Like a landowner who props up a shotgun with an string on the trigger at abandoned farmhouse, or better yet, a uncovered well! In this case "public hunting" proceed at your own risk, by the way we seeded it to kill your dog! A little common sense would be nice. Is there some cartel with Canadian rye growers to lobby against it? I just don't understand. I realize realistically we can not immediately or cost effectively, reduce what has been planted, but for heaven's sake we can quite seeding it! My theory is avoid it if possible, and get dog insurance. In Florida, 20 years ago, I hunted quail wearing 9 oz. bull hide, knee boots, behind as quoted, "100.00 dogs" because the rattlers and alligators kill them constantly......my dogs stayed home! Looks like the same risk on the plains.
 
I posted an interactive map to show where the USDA uses it. And it will shock you how many states. Try arguing with a biologist with a degree. You will shoot yourself before your done. LOL People in high places are the only ones who can stop it. And people need to speak out more and more to the feds. That's all you can do and warn others doing a planting. More people need to call and bug them.
 
I'm bringing this back to the front lines. I trained SD Friday and Saturday for an hour or so each day. Friday night about 545 I went into a new WIA. I could see the Canadien wild rye in the field and knew better, but I've been hunting 45 years and never had a problem, right. Till now. Wife and I came home Saturday night, and my Breez dog wasn't feeling good on Sunday. She was lethargic , coughing, and generally in respiratory distress. I got her to the vet this morning, and after several ex rays , and some extremely strong antibiotics, she is out of distress, and feeling better, but not out of the woods. She's laid up for a minimum of 3 weeks. Great. Vet says these seeds can develop into pneumonia very, very fast and he was glad I brought her in.
 
Update: 3 antibiotics later, three blood tests, two chest xrays, and some time, and Breez is feeling better. I thought I was going to lose her last Tuesday night. Heading to SD tonight with the two pups and Mama Breez on the truck. Breez will not be hunting. Pretty sure it was a perfect storm situation that got her ill. Very dry conditions. mean seed evident, warm temps and a hard driving dog all contributed to her inhaling contaminates. I havent been able 100% blame the cause on mean seeds, and wont truly know the prognosis for her until the antibiotics run their course, and I take her off of them. If she stays healthy, then she probably didnt ingest or inhale any seeds. If che infects right away again, then its going to be a long road.

She sees the vet again today for Blood work and a listen to her chest. I dont know if they will xray again or not. Vet bill to date is $850...
I typically dont gamble, but I did this time, and it bit me in the ass.

Sorry Breez.
 
Weed Awns-dangerous to your dog

One of my dogs has been battling an infection on the lower jaw for more than a month, possibly from a weed awn. The infected area developed into an abscess. The necrotic tissue opened up, allowing drainage. Hopefully the awn is gone and the area seems to be improving. These awns can start in the dog's pad or head area and travel throughout the body.

I would encourage dog owners to read the article by Kevin Noon and Cathy Lewis titled, The "bad" grass list.
 
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