Cross breeding Lab/GSP?

In the late 1880s and early 1990s dog breeders in Europe were honored because they had vision and drive to create something new for the desires and needs of the hunters of that time.

Times have changed and breeders like Wessels are trying to created a breed that fits todays times. To create a breed that we can take hunting all day, take home to play with the kids, and then sleep at the foot of the bed seems to fit what a lot of the bird hunters need now days.

Taking the best quailties of some of the best hunting dogs out there and mixing it into one dog is the same thing they did 100 years ago. Whats so wrong with trying it now? Now I know a lot of people out there have no business playing with genetics and crossing, but unfortunately you have to take the good with the bad.

Now some of you will disagree because you have a setter or a pointer that will do everything a lab will do or vise versa, but the fact is Labs retrieve, pointers point!!!

If you want a breed that hunts all day,plays with the kids,and sleeps at the foot of the bed...well that breed is the English Springer Spaniel. No experimentation needed. Advocating cross-breeding dogs to novice wannabe breeders will have one predictable outcome...More dogs abandoned in shelters and euthenized. Don't try to re-invent the wheel. There is a breed out there to satisfy everyone already. You don't have to take the bad with the good.Don't support cross-breeding of sporting dogs and don't support unscrupulous breeders,then we only have to take the good. If you want a mix-breed dog,the shelters are full of them. Go there.
 
Another way to ponder this subject is to think about how many good mix-breed dogs are in shelters wishing they had a truck, and a guy to drive it. I gambled on one and am damn happy I did.

Don't think I'd set out deliberately todo the cross bred thing. Back in the old days there were a lot of "field bred", as in cosumated in the field during a hunt, pointer-setter crosses. Universally turned out to be veryuseful dogs and some fantastic. With the variety of breeds available today, and the variety within breeds, it seems a guy could find a suitable dog without the risk and ordeal of a completely avante guard breeding program.

First of all there is nothing wrong with giving a mutt a try and a home after a accident. Responsible pet ownership avoids 99% of mistakes. I believe breeding should be done with great thought and care and education. Too many breeds are being screwed up by crappy breeding practice these days and the Lab is a perfect example of it. I think this type of breeding is what is called backyard breeding and creates nothing but problems.:(

Nice posts. Agree.
If you want a mutt, go to the pound and get one. Lots of great dogs needing homes in the pounds, and lots of good bird dogs in shelters too. And some in rescue as well.
 
Well boys hate to be barer of bad news but at one point in history your beloved springer spaniels, lewellin setter, etc were all considered mutts too.
 
Dad had one 30 years ago, before my time. I never heard how she did on the pointing, but they said there wasn't a better retriever.

The best all around good dog I've ever seen hunted was a GSP crossed with an Irish Setter. Yeah, just a 'field-bred' dog, but there was none better, pointing, retrieving, and just friendly as a collie. If a bird was so much as scratched down, you could count on it being retrieved to hand if that dog was in the field.
 
Well boys hate to be barer of bad news but at one point in history your beloved springer spaniels, lewellin setter, etc were all considered mutts too.

I think I'll breed a Superdog.here's the plan.

Australian Shepherd,Great Pyrennes,Rottweiler,Terrier,Spaniel,Lab, Shorthair,Beagle.

Now that's one calf wranglin',sheep herdin',guard doggin',badger rootin',bird flushin',duck fetchin',quail pointin',coon runnin',MOFO.

Thanks for the enlightenment.
 
I think I'll breed a Superdog.here's the plan.

Australian Shepherd,Great Pyrennes,Rottweiler,Terrier,Spaniel,Lab, Shorthair,Beagle.

Now that's one calf wranglin',sheep herdin',guard doggin',badger rootin',bird flushin',duck fetchin',quail pointin',coon runnin',MOFO.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

You are a genius!
 
Well boys hate to be barer of bad news but at one point in history your beloved springer spaniels, lewellin setter, etc were all considered mutts too.

Maybe so, but some of us go further back then most. :)

"The Vizsla was already known in early Hungarian history. The ancestors of the present Vizsla were the trusted and favorite hunting dogs of the Magyar tribes who lived in the Carpathian Basin in the 10th century. Primitive stone etchings over a thousand years old show the Magyar hunter with his falcon and his Vizsla.

The first written reference to Vizsla dog breed has been recorded in the Illustrated Vienna Chronicle prepared on order of King Lajos the Great (Louis the Great) by the Carmelite Friars in 1357."
 
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Well boys hate to be barer of bad news but at one point in history your beloved springer spaniels, lewellin setter, etc were all considered mutts too.

I failed to note in my sarcastic response above that this post is simply incorrect.Or if it is correct it's been hundreds of years since anyone ever considered them "mutts". Nearly all the spaniel types in existence today are bred from other spaniel lines originating out of the Norfolk or Shropshire Spaniel.And nearly all were bred by royalty,with the price for possession by a non-blue blood being death.They have been carefully bred for probably 500 years. Also Springers and Cockers used to come from the same litter. Which would be considered a mutt?

A quote on Spaniel history:

English physician Dr. John Caius described the spaniel in his book the Treatise of Englishe Dogs published in 1576. His book was the first work to describe the various British breeds by function.[19] By 1801, Sydenham Edwards explained in the Cynographia Britannica that the land spaniel should be split into two kinds, the Springing, Hawking Spaniel, or Starter, and the Cocking or Cocker Spaniel.

And now one regarding temperament which seems to back up my statement about the spaniel being the perfect sporting/family dog:

The typical Springer is friendly, eager to please, quick to learn and willing to obey. An affectionate and easy-going family dog, its alertness and attentiveness make it the ideal hunting companion. The English Springer Spaniel ranks 13th in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, considered an excellent working dog. It has exceptional stamina and needs moderate amounts of activity, to focus its mind and to provide exercise, although this is different for each dog. English Springers need plenty of exercise in order to run off their excess energy. Its long-legged build makes it among the fastest of the spaniels.

It is a sociable breed that enjoys the company of children and handles the company of other pets well, except birds, however they can become aggressive to other dogs of the same sex. If left alone for too long, they can become destructive and mischievous through boredom. They love the water, and tend to get wet whenever they have the chance.

Nice post above on the Visla! You can tell by looking at a Visla that it is an ancient breed,but I had no idea. Thanks for the education.
 
Well boys hate to be barer of bad news but at one point in history your beloved springer spaniels, lewellin setter, etc were all considered mutts too.

Where's the proof? Most of our modern date breeds go back a few hundred years and were produced through very selective breeding to obtain the desired dog. I suppose there might be some truth in your statement if you go back far enough but that's kind of like saying your relatives were cavemen! :)
 
First of all there is nothing wrong with giving a mutt a try and a home after a accident. Responsible pet ownership avoids 99% of mistakes. I believe breeding should be done with great thought and care and education. Too many breeds are being screwed up by crappy breeding practice these days and the Lab is a perfect example of it. I think this type of breeding is what is called backyard breeding and creates nothing but problems.:(

Couldn't agree more. That is why many guys call them flabadores and crap like that:rolleyes:. Poor breeding by some guy that think he is going to cash in by having some pups. It is not easy to do it right. Too many of these dogs are purchased by guys that think they will make a good hunter, only to find out they won't. Many people have never hunted behind a good lab. Most are poorly bred family pets that are forced into hunting 1-2 times a year. I agree with most on here. Why try something that may turn out pups that are not as intended.
 
Here's the description of the ESS breed characteristics taken from the Breed Standard on the British Kennel Club website:

Characteristics:
Breed is of ancient and pure origins, oldest of sporting gundogs; original purpose was finding and springing game for net, falcon or greyhound. Now used to find, flush and retrieve game for gun.
 
I have a one year old Black Lab / English Pointer Mix that I got as a recuse.

It's been a little over 4 months and he's 100% obedient, whistle trained, collar conditioned, retrieve to hand, loves the water, points feather & fur and the sound of gunshots makes him crazy to hunt. He has all the instinct of both breeds.
I feel we both got lucky when our paths came together. :10sign:
309311_1951492319643_1612697334_1672551_632747686_n.jpg
 
I have a one year old Black Lab / English Pointer Mix that I got as a recuse.

It's been a little over 4 months and he's 100% obedient, whistle trained, collar conditioned, retrieve to hand, loves the water, points feather & fur and the sound of gunshots makes him crazy to hunt. He has all the instinct of both breeds.
I feel we both got lucky when our paths came together. :10sign:
309311_1951492319643_1612697334_1672551_632747686_n.jpg

Atta Boy. That dog deserves a forever home.
 
I have a knack for finding info like that.Friends of mine always want me to find info for them.Usually if it's not info it's some kind of hand tool or parts for some type of farm implement.
 
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