Cost of Land Ownership in South Dakota

UGUIDE

Active member
I was feeling creative this morning and so took liberty to write an article I had down as a to-do on my white board.

Check.

Well I hope you enjoy the reading but it could be disheartening to some who harbor the american dream. The size of purchase is substantial but also relative for hunting purposes.

I'd encourage any feedback to see where I might be off-base on the scenario.

Landman, since you are local to that area and have extensive experience I would really appreciate your review and feedback on this one.

http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/articles/cost-of-south-dakota-land-ownership/
 
I was feeling creative this morning and so took liberty to write an article I had down as a to-do on my white board.

Check.

Well I hope you enjoy the reading but it could be disheartening to some who harbor the american dream. The size of purchase is substantial but also relative for hunting purposes.

I'd encourage any feedback to see where I might be off-base on the scenario.

Landman, since you are local to that area and have extensive experience I would really appreciate your review and feedback on this one.

http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/articles/cost-of-south-dakota-land-ownership/


2500 an acre? Who in Gods name pays that for a 2000 acre piece of property? Im thinking when you quote that price you are quoting with all mineral and water rights and near a human populace of a sizeable count?

Prime farmland here would barely bring that. South Dakota is more desolate than KS is and land values should be lower there.


Not trying to be too cynical...i just think your land price is a ways off. Good salesmanship though.
 
2500 an acre? Who in Gods name pays that for a 2000 acre piece of property? Im thinking when you quote that price you are quoting with all mineral and water rights and near a human populace of a sizeable count?

Prime farmland here would barely bring that. South Dakota is more desolate than KS is and land values should be lower there.


Not trying to be too cynical...i just think your land price is a ways off. Good salesmanship though.

in Pierre, theres a sign right by the river with excellent hunting ground costing 20,000 an acre... no joke... what he said is cheap.
 
2500 an acre? Who in Gods name pays that for a 2000 acre piece of property? Im thinking when you quote that price you are quoting with all mineral and water rights and near a human populace of a sizeable count?

Prime farmland here would barely bring that. South Dakota is more desolate than KS is and land values should be lower there.


Not trying to be too cynical...i just think your land price is a ways off. Good salesmanship though.

I'll leave it up to the locals to refute the validity of "average price". Looks like we got one response already.
 
2500 an acre? Who in Gods name pays that for a 2000 acre piece of property? Im thinking when you quote that price you are quoting with all mineral and water rights and near a human populace of a sizeable count?

Prime farmland here would barely bring that. South Dakota is more desolate than KS is and land values should be lower there.


Not trying to be too cynical...i just think your land price is a ways off. Good salesmanship though.

I can assure you that land prices in central south dakota will sell between $1500 to $3500 per acre with an average of around $2200 to 2500 per acre.
 
Since I believe you posted this for purposes of educating us, I feel comfortable asking the stupid question - why do you buy the 1500 acres to be rented out, rather than just the 500? If you were to only buy the 500, the numbers pencil out a bit better. I ask this as a general question - I have no interest/ability to start the size of operation you're detailing, but have looked at smaller parcels in MN which are all habitat, rather than 75% farmland / 25% habitat.

-Matt
 
It does seem that this is outlining how to get started w/ a large scale hunting operation. If I'm buying some hunting ground for myself, I'm looking for less than 1/2 section. Granted I'll still need to hunt some other places throughout the season, but at least I'd still have my honeyhole to come back to. I would never need the kind of acreage you referred to in your assessment.
 
It does seem that this is outlining how to get started w/ a large scale hunting operation. If I'm buying some hunting ground for myself, I'm looking for less than 1/2 section. Granted I'll still need to hunt some other places throughout the season, but at least I'd still have my honeyhole to come back to. I would never need the kind of acreage you referred to in your assessment.

I think Uguide is simply trying to compare the cost of purchasing land vs leasing it for the days of hunting that you want.

If a person wants to puchase some land for hunting enjoyment then buy what you are comfortable with and can afford. I know some folks who are very happy with 40 to 80 acres and do quite well and others have much more and they do well too.

In General terms the more land you have the more enjoyment you will get from it. If you can own a lot of land, that is great but you can also lease a large area of land and that is great too. One factor that so many miss is the variety factor. If you have a lot of land to hunt then you can hunt different areas every day and enjoy different strategies and hunting situations vs hunting the same spot every time if the land area is small.
 
Since I believe you posted this for purposes of educating us, I feel comfortable asking the stupid question - why do you buy the 1500 acres to be rented out, rather than just the 500? If you were to only buy the 500, the numbers pencil out a bit better. I ask this as a general question - I have no interest/ability to start the size of operation you're detailing, but have looked at smaller parcels in MN which are all habitat, rather than 75% farmland / 25% habitat.

-Matt

Matt, that is a fair question. It depends I guess. The 500 would not hold up to the hunting pressure from 10 groups of hunters as much as the 2000 would assume the larger acreage holds more birds per acre. If you have the 500 totally decked out for pheasants it could certainly produce but most parcels of land are not all prime habitat but a mix of crop/habitat and right in the 75/25 mix.

Certainly one could kill a lot of birds off a 40 or 160 as Landman and Benelli banger can attest to but it would be real hard to sell a hunt to a group of 6 or 10 guys on just 500 acres.
 
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I don't know anything about local prices per acre in the area there, but in general terms a larger piece of land such as U-Guide suggests is absolutely necessary for consistent, long-term sustainability of any decent number of pheasants at your disposal to hunt (unless you have plenty of other places to hunt as well)...It doesn't take long at all for even one man or a small group to "Burn-Out" a small parcel of land if hunted very regularly without plenty of "rest" in between (which most hunters are not willing to do).

The only exception to this rule would be if you are smart enough & do very intensive homework to land yourself a prime parcel or several smaller parcels of land smack-dab in the middle of a bunch of LARGE farming operations & let them provide all the vast expanses of corn, milo & wheat fields for nesting & food - while you focus on creating/providing the best roosting area, heavy winter-cover & hunting-pressure escape hidey-hole for miles around once all the corn & wheat comes off! :D

But you had best live somewhere nearby or at least know someone who does & is willing to help you POLICE the place - or choose your land far enough on the remote backside/backroads with difficult access - to help minimize the POACHERS once they sniff out your little land of milk & honey!!! :mad:

Better think about it long & hard before you bite/jump: There is far more that goes into owning a top-notch consistently-productive piece of hunting land than meets the eye - which anyone who has ever tried or been-there/done-that even on a small scale can fully attest to! There is good reason why quality operations such as U-Guide & others HAVE TO charge what they do!!! If you think for a NY minute that it is a fast road to an easy buck, just give it a whirl yourself & you will quickly become self-enlightened - most of these guys do what they do because they love wingshooting & dogs themselves & just wanted to find a way to make it even semi-affordable to stay in on a little of the action!

On the other hand, if all you want is a place to maybe accidentally stumble into an occasional rooster or two once in awhile (not all that much different from the public burnt-over walk-ins everybody already complains about), that's a whole nother story and might well be achieved cheaply or easily on a small piece of property without too much money or back-breaking labor-of-love!

All of this and more is exactly why I don't own a piece of my own land - I am not content with just an occasional chance/random rooster-encounter once in a while, and I do not have the time or the money necessary to own/upkeep & constantly police the quality kind of land that I like to spend my limited hunting-time on!

I am fortunate enough to have a few friends who allow me access to several primo private pieces of property and I am not afraid to bust my butt & wear my legs off covering LARGE expanses of public walk-ins across several counties in constant search of the ever-elusive rooster-Mecca!...This much I can tell you though, if you are in a position to create your own proper mosaic of HUNTING-SEASON-SPECIFIC timed & type of HABITAT in a carefully searched-out key location - the results are nothing short of phenomenal!!!

I was privileged to hunt one small, hidden patch of INTENSE cover several times this year - it was the ONLY cover for miles around in that particular area & the GNARLIEST cover I have ever seen in my life (it ripped my clothes & scratched my gun/sometimes nearly tearing it out of my hand, I couldn't even get off a decent shot thru the stuff half the time, the dog even had trouble plowing through it) - but I flushed a couple hundred birds out of it on opening morning & just about the same amount or maybe even more at the very tail-end of the season (visited it about once a month & got a limit or near every time - my best secret little honey-hole by far)! Hmmh, that should tell us all a little something - there is a reason the birds STAYED in there all year long! That is the kind & proper placement of cover I would create if I could!!! :thumbsup:
 
Re: price, I guess I wonder where the $6,000 an acre land is TODAY (maybe a few years ago) but otherwise I think it's in the ballpark. I'd be a lot less inclined to trust realtors than others--e.g. SD extension has some great land value analysis on a county basis available to anyone.

We sold a quarter for $3k an acre a bit more than a year ago--I believe it is very close to one of UGuides newest operations. And had we been more on the ball and tried to sell just 6 months earlier we might have received $3300 to $3500 an acre for it. Land values have fallen significantly in many areas from highs not too long ago.

We are also getting a bit more for rent in that area than the figure UGuide used. However, how you configure rent--namely if you include the total acres or cut out the least productive to manage for game/hunting and rent out the rest--can really affect the price.

A major missing piece here is landscape consideration. If you have just a 40 adjacent to excellent winter cover in a GPA/WPA/Federal refuge you may have just as good--and more consistent--hunting as you would if you had the scenario UGuide mentions if it's an oasis with no other good habitat around for miles.

When you get into areas with the most valuable farmland, you tend to have much less habitat available on the landscape.

Re: the overall concept, It seems to me it really only plays to a tiny % of all hunters, so I have to wonder how useful it is as a marketing tool. How many hunters have the kind of money implied? And how many that do are inclined to spend it in this economy?

I would think a more useful analysis would be comparing the cost for the traveling public land hunter to one of your operations. I suspect that wouldn't be as flattering, but it might show some folks in the right situation that the higher cost of your operation might be more worth it than they realize. Something like that would speak to a much higher % of hunters than the rich landbaron example.
 
I guess I don't understand the point of the article and how it would relate to a recreational hunter. It appears to do a better job explaining how hard it would be to get in the outfitting business assuming your business model included purchase of the land. Also guessing most outfitters lease not buy.

From the recreational hunter (your customer ??) persepctive perhaps the better point of view would look something like this:

Assume A 4-Hunter Partnership

PURCHASE

640 Acres (50% CRP 25% tillable 25% idle cover)
Purcahse Price (640 X $2500) = 1,600,000.00
Cash Down Payment (20%) = $320,000.00
Cash Down Payment Each Partner = $80,000.00
Annual (20 Year) Mortgage Payment @ 7% = $119,086.00
Property Taxes (640 x $12.00) = $7680.00
Total Annual PITI = $126,766.00
Annual PITI Per Partner = $31,691.50

INCOME

160 Acres Cash Rent @ $100 = $16,000.00
320 Acres CRP Rent @ $100 = $32,000.00
Total Income = $48,000.00
Income Per Partner = $12,000.00

ANNUAL OPERATING EXPENSES

25 Acres Of Food Plot = $2500.00
CRP Maintenance = $6500.00
Utilities & Insurance = $3000.00
Total Op. Expenses = $12,000.00
Annual Op. Expense By Partner = $3,000.00

ANNUAL OUTLAY

Annual Income By Partner = $12,000.00
Annual PITI By Partner = $31,691.50
Annual Op. Expense By Partner = $3,000.00
Total Annual Outlay By Partner = $22,691.50

Theorectically the same general numbers by partner should apply to an individual who would go out and by a 1/4 section on their own.

Numbers could look a little better if a guy went farther north and/or west and found decent habitat near agricultural or if was really fortunate and found a parcel where all idle ground was eligible for a revenue producing subsidy program.

No doubt in either case and given todays land prices a hunter would have to fall into the "very well off" category to even consider these options. Maybe the best sales tool an outfitter has going.

Wish I had the forsight in the mid-nineties to buy a 1/4 of CRP at sub $1000 rates. It would have been a sacarafice but still doable. Not much chance of that happening now.

DB
 
Wish I had the forsight in the mid-nineties to buy a 1/4 of CRP at sub $1000 rates. It would have been a sacarafice but still doable. Not much chance of that happening now.

DB

I purchased land six times and each time folks told me that land was too high priced and that I paid too much to make it work. But then again, maybe they might have been right if land prices were $200 per acre today instead of $2500 per acre. I'm just happy it worked out.

Fortunately I'm not one that generally let's others make decisions for me. Just find a way and get'er done is my motto.
 
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I think the GENERAL point being made was how unreachable/unattainable owning or even exclusive leasing a reasonable piece of true rooster-heaven is for the vast majority of us pheasant hunters! The only totally FREE alternative is living with or just keep on griping about all of the issues surrounding the sharing of hard-hit public walk-ins, or knocking on doors & hoping for the best. "Happy Hunting Grounds" for most usually lie somewhere in the middle or some combination thereof!!!
 
I think the GENERAL point being made was how unreachable/unattainable owning or even exclusive leasing a reasonable piece of true rooster-heaven is for the vast majority of us pheasant hunters! The only totally FREE alternative is living with or just keep on griping about all of the issues surrounding the sharing of hard-hit public walk-ins, or knocking on doors & hoping for the best. "Happy Hunting Grounds" for most usually lie somewhere in the middle or some combination thereof!!!

The important benefit of owning land is the ability to control what happens on it. Ownership gives you the right to develop the habitat the way you want and control who hunts on it. If that isn't very important then the best way is to scout for free hunting or pay for access on someone else's land.

I'm very fortunate to have purchased land on my own without partners. I'm sure it works out for most folks who partner up to buy land but for me I want the freedom to do it my way.

There are costs associated with buying land and financial sacrifices that must be made because of it. But there are some very big potential rewards too.
 
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From the recreational hunter (your customer ??) persepctive perhaps the better point of view would look something like this:

Assume A 4-Hunter Partnership

PURCHASE

640 Acres (50% CRP 25% tillable 25% idle cover)
Purcahse Price (640 X $2500) = 1,600,000.00
Cash Down Payment (20%) = $320,000.00
Cash Down Payment Each Partner = $80,000.00
Annual (20 Year) Mortgage Payment @ 7% = $119,086.00
Property Taxes (640 x $12.00) = $7680.00
Total Annual PITI = $126,766.00
Annual PITI Per Partner = $31,691.50

INCOME

160 Acres Cash Rent @ $100 = $16,000.00
320 Acres CRP Rent @ $100 = $32,000.00
Total Income = $48,000.00
Income Per Partner = $12,000.00

ANNUAL OPERATING EXPENSES

25 Acres Of Food Plot = $2500.00
CRP Maintenance = $6500.00
Utilities & Insurance = $3000.00
Total Op. Expenses = $12,000.00
Annual Op. Expense By Partner = $3,000.00

ANNUAL OUTLAY

Annual Income By Partner = $12,000.00
Annual PITI By Partner = $31,691.50
Annual Op. Expense By Partner = $3,000.00
Total Annual Outlay By Partner = $22,691.50

DB

Another option is to buy the land and forego the hunting for a few years until income rises to the level that can be afforded. If so you could cut out the cost of Food plots. You could also purchase a place without buildings to cut the utilities and insurance payments down to a couple of hundred dollars and finally you could rent it out for hunting to capture a few thousand bucks. I'm guessing that in about 8 to 10 years you might feel that you can forgo the hunting income. You could take friends hunting and ask them to help pay for the food plots.
 
Another option is to buy the land and forego the hunting for a few years until income rises to the level that can be afforded. If so you could cut out the cost of Food plots. You could also purchase a place without buildings to cut the utilities and insurance payments down to a couple of hundred dollars and finally you could rent it out for hunting to capture a few thousand bucks. I'm guessing that in about 8 to 10 years you might feel that you can forgo the hunting income. You could take friends hunting and ask them to help pay for the food plots.

Hey Landman - Appreciate the thoughts and will always hang on to the dream. But ultimately the fact that I chose to have children in my late thirties & early forties tends to complicate things. Me making the sacrafices and taking the risks required wouldn't be a question but asking my kids to come along for the ride can be a different story.

Maybe circumstances will change in a few years assuming the job keeps going well and the house is paid off. Still can't shake the feeling my window was 15 years ago. Income was good, expenses were low, had some liquid assets and land (relative to now) was cheap.
 
Hey Landman - Appreciate the thoughts and will always hang on to the dream. But ultimately the fact that I chose to have children in my late thirties & early forties tends to complicate things. Me making the sacrafices and taking the risks required wouldn't be a question but asking my kids to come along for the ride can be a different story.

Maybe circumstances will change in a few years assuming the job keeps going well and the house is paid off. Still can't shake the feeling my window was 15 years ago. Income was good, expenses were low, had some liquid assets and land (relative to now) was cheap.

I hope you will get the opportunity to buy some land in the future. There are a lot of things I would do differently if I could go back 15 years too.
 
Re: price, I guess I wonder where the $6,000 an acre land is TODAY (maybe a few years ago) but otherwise I think it's in the ballpark. I'd be a lot less inclined to trust realtors than others--e.g. SD extension has some great land value analysis on a county basis available to anyone.

We sold a quarter for $3k an acre a bit more than a year ago--I believe it is very close to one of UGuides newest operations. And had we been more on the ball and tried to sell just 6 months earlier we might have received $3300 to $3500 an acre for it. Land values have fallen significantly in many areas from highs not too long ago.

We are also getting a bit more for rent in that area than the figure UGuide used. However, how you configure rent--namely if you include the total acres or cut out the least productive to manage for game/hunting and rent out the rest--can really affect the price.

A major missing piece here is landscape consideration. If you have just a 40 adjacent to excellent winter cover in a GPA/WPA/Federal refuge you may have just as good--and more consistent--hunting as you would if you had the scenario UGuide mentions if it's an oasis with no other good habitat around for miles.

When you get into areas with the most valuable farmland, you tend to have much less habitat available on the landscape.

Re: the overall concept, It seems to me it really only plays to a tiny % of all hunters, so I have to wonder how useful it is as a marketing tool. How many hunters have the kind of money implied? And how many that do are inclined to spend it in this economy?

I would think a more useful analysis would be comparing the cost for the traveling public land hunter to one of your operations. I suspect that wouldn't be as flattering, but it might show some folks in the right situation that the higher cost of your operation might be more worth it than they realize. Something like that would speak to a much higher % of hunters than the rich landbaron example.

TM, your review is useful and insightful. The Public/Freelancer vs. UGUIDE would be interesting too. I can tell you one easy comparison is that you could easily save money on fuel since you don't have to leave the proerty at some camps and cook in vs. eat out (freelance) could all be eye opening.

The variabilities on the freelance hunt may be hard to nail down though.
 
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