Close Working Pointers
- Thread starter slidellkid
- Start date
Wild birds holding
I like spending a few days hunting with our group each Nov., but I know I have more close points and birds in my bag when I hunt alone in thick cover, and stop often, and never use my voice with my dog. In the group hunt the birds are spilling out all over the place, the dogs are nuts, and the noise is intense. Most of them get past us. Last year I shot a limit in 45 minutes quietly walking the edge of a five acre frozen cattail marsh on public land. Dog was in about 10 yards, probably on point, but boy those birds don't hold for long. Geez that was fun.
I like spending a few days hunting with our group each Nov., but I know I have more close points and birds in my bag when I hunt alone in thick cover, and stop often, and never use my voice with my dog. In the group hunt the birds are spilling out all over the place, the dogs are nuts, and the noise is intense. Most of them get past us. Last year I shot a limit in 45 minutes quietly walking the edge of a five acre frozen cattail marsh on public land. Dog was in about 10 yards, probably on point, but boy those birds don't hold for long. Geez that was fun.
Good message...same experience happened to me last Christmas. Cattails, some snow and hunting alone. Lots of birds were flying early, but some stayed. Not sure they were all dog- pointed, just slow to get moving.
When the slough is frozen and cattails remain, birds seem to hold or fly - can't run...too thick.
When the slough is frozen and cattails remain, birds seem to hold or fly - can't run...too thick.
Shawk
Member
Late season
I've closed out the season the last three years in the Miller area. Last year around New Years the weather was beyond what most folks want to be out in. I'd have to say that those conditions really brought my pointer along. She got pretty frustrated hunting in snow squalls and 30 mph winds, but darn if she if didn't outfox a couple of limits for me. She was only two at the time, but it seems like the worst conditions can bring out the best in a dog, in terms of learning. I'm done with the last week of the season, tho. Too old for that.
I've closed out the season the last three years in the Miller area. Last year around New Years the weather was beyond what most folks want to be out in. I'd have to say that those conditions really brought my pointer along. She got pretty frustrated hunting in snow squalls and 30 mph winds, but darn if she if didn't outfox a couple of limits for me. She was only two at the time, but it seems like the worst conditions can bring out the best in a dog, in terms of learning. I'm done with the last week of the season, tho. Too old for that.
Uncle Buck
New member
Disagree. Sure the pheasants get wilder as the season progresses, but my dogs point plenty birds throughout the season and when the snow hits it's a whole new ballgame. Ask Haymaker as he watched George and I get more than enough points on late season birds to get limits. My guess is you are blocking at the end of grain fields.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ranger Rick
Member
Not all "English dogs" are big ranging. My Setter ranges average out to 50 yards. I've also hunted behind an English Pointer that came from stock imported from England, that ranged similarly to my Setters.
Pointer
I have a French spaniel and she tends to hunt pretty close. Probably because she's a female and she's French. When I stop she moves towards me. You just gotta love those French women. The closeness, the eye contact, the soft fur, always wanting more. It just gets my heart going thinking about opening day.
I have a French spaniel and she tends to hunt pretty close. Probably because she's a female and she's French. When I stop she moves towards me. You just gotta love those French women. The closeness, the eye contact, the soft fur, always wanting more. It just gets my heart going thinking about opening day.
BeirlSetters
Member
Setters
My dogs tend to hunt close as they should being the classic foot hunting bloodlines. I would be lying if I didn't once in a while when running multiple setters(up to 5) depending on area I am in, that a young dog doesn't get a little far out. Over the course of time they learn to range it in and work close. I run my younger setters with the alpha's for the simple fact they get so much education so quickly. They seem to absorb the situation and apply it better than if you training back home. I guess you could say that's real life pheasant experience- what young dog is ready for 30-40 bird flush. I would be more worried if they sat there and did nothing after that happened.
I know guys might think 5 dogs, really? There aren't many educated, tucked in roosters that can get by five noses, especially in snowed-in cattails. There also aren't many runners that can do the hook to get around you without one of the dogs being able to pin that bird before it escapes. I can also tell you there's nothing more beautiful than having that lead dog lock up and having a staggered line of setters honoring the point out front. Absolutely priceless in my eyes especially when the skill to honor is natural and never taught.
I apologize for seeming overly excited about my dogs. I am really just that proud of them and their abilities when it all works out right. Main thing for myself and the dogs is repetition, repetition, and more repetition to bring out them natural abilities. The dogs tend to always get better but on occasion I still miss a easy bird and get the look from them like what the f#@! happened there. I am sure a lot can relate to this look, if you hunted enough with your dog you have probably seen it a few times.
My dogs tend to hunt close as they should being the classic foot hunting bloodlines. I would be lying if I didn't once in a while when running multiple setters(up to 5) depending on area I am in, that a young dog doesn't get a little far out. Over the course of time they learn to range it in and work close. I run my younger setters with the alpha's for the simple fact they get so much education so quickly. They seem to absorb the situation and apply it better than if you training back home. I guess you could say that's real life pheasant experience- what young dog is ready for 30-40 bird flush. I would be more worried if they sat there and did nothing after that happened.
I know guys might think 5 dogs, really? There aren't many educated, tucked in roosters that can get by five noses, especially in snowed-in cattails. There also aren't many runners that can do the hook to get around you without one of the dogs being able to pin that bird before it escapes. I can also tell you there's nothing more beautiful than having that lead dog lock up and having a staggered line of setters honoring the point out front. Absolutely priceless in my eyes especially when the skill to honor is natural and never taught.
I apologize for seeming overly excited about my dogs. I am really just that proud of them and their abilities when it all works out right. Main thing for myself and the dogs is repetition, repetition, and more repetition to bring out them natural abilities. The dogs tend to always get better but on occasion I still miss a easy bird and get the look from them like what the f#@! happened there. I am sure a lot can relate to this look, if you hunted enough with your dog you have probably seen it a few times.
Last edited:
carptom1
Well-known member
I guess I shoot pointed birds 300 yards out with 1oz. of shot in a 20.ga.
I hunt with a guy who has a Lab. He carries a 12 with 3" mags and actually shots most of his birds at 50 yards while he is yelling at the dog. Going back to my original comment, the Pudelpointer will work the cover and/or as trained. I really do not like mine out more than 50 unless chasing sharpies or quail.
That drives me crazy........but not my experience. My dog has incredible drive and stamina, as good as any dog I have ever seen. Ask any that have hunted with me I do not use a whistle, except on a long retrieve. I do not yell at my dog. He has learned a couple beeps at 40 yards and he better turn his ass around or he is getting the juice. That said I think I lit him up twice last year in like 13 days of hunting and seeing a couple thousand birds. I like hunting with my dog. I like him with me because he is fun to watch. I can't see 300 yards anymore so I would get lonely out there by myself. Like jonny said, my dog to would hunt in the next county if I would let him. I know he loves me but he would prefer to be out of shocking range.
BeirlSetters
Member
Wildcat,
I will always reference my bloodlines over the English Setter breed in a whole. There are so many sub-strains or bloodlines within the breed. Setter guys can argue which are the best lines forever and not agree. I mean do you want a setter that runs maybe for horseback or a closer working setter that's good in tight cover. Here in WI the classic foot hunting lines(ryman/old hemlock) are the best in my opinion. No real open country at home here you need that close working dog to keep a visual.
It took a lot of years traveling all over the upper Midwest to get the lines we were happy with. Then is took even longer to weed out dogs that just weren't up to par for our program. After that we worked with our dogs to intensify the traits or qualities to produce strong bird dogs.
I would also agree with there being a clear difference in flushing to pointing breeds. In the end it's up to the guy who wants a dog. Which will he prefer? I started with flushers and now have pointing dogs. I would never go back to a flushing breed but that just me. Nothing against the breed I just prefer my pointers. To each his own.......
Last edited:
VizslaHunter
New member
Different Bloodlines can certainly have a stronger instinct to range more than another. As you already know with Vizslas they have a strong desire to be near their master(unless of course they come from a line strongly bread for field trials). I would say stick with what you know, but be sure to ask the breeders how the mother and father hunted as that could give you a strong instinct to start with. I am quite partial to Vizslas though...
Uncle Buck
New member
Lots of good, trained Labs out there. My buddy's dog is actually a very good dog. The owner not so well trained!
1pheas4
Moderator
Roaniecowpony
Member
I'm on the other end of the subject of this original topic. But I was looking for some well experienced trainers/owners to comment. I have a very big running pointer out of of horseback Field Dog trials HOF lines, including Snakefoot. I'm a first time pointer owner, only four years now. I hunt the southwest, which is mostly open country. But there are plenty of places where the land is cut up and or has tight cover.
When I first got my dog, it was a joke. She would range out so far it was ridiculous. I've seen her out the better part of a mile on the gps. I thought I had made a big mistake getting this kind of dog. I was definitely over my head that first couple seasons. Over the years, my dog has learned hunting closer in tighter cover with less handling. I use a whistle and the tone on an Alpha gps collar to handle her. She will turn or recall on tone or whistle.
This last season, she was hunting in very tight cover near the Mexican border for Mearns. I was handling her easily to keep her close. She was hunting around 50 yards, sometimes more, sometimes right under foot. On that same trip,there were places where I hunted that 100 or 200 yards was very comfortable for her to range.
Am I taking away the dogs ability to run big in open country? I still want have her range 500+ yards in the big grassy prairie, but hunt tight as well. Is that too much to expect?
When I first got my dog, it was a joke. She would range out so far it was ridiculous. I've seen her out the better part of a mile on the gps. I thought I had made a big mistake getting this kind of dog. I was definitely over my head that first couple seasons. Over the years, my dog has learned hunting closer in tighter cover with less handling. I use a whistle and the tone on an Alpha gps collar to handle her. She will turn or recall on tone or whistle.
This last season, she was hunting in very tight cover near the Mexican border for Mearns. I was handling her easily to keep her close. She was hunting around 50 yards, sometimes more, sometimes right under foot. On that same trip,there were places where I hunted that 100 or 200 yards was very comfortable for her to range.
Am I taking away the dogs ability to run big in open country? I still want have her range 500+ yards in the big grassy prairie, but hunt tight as well. Is that too much to expect?
Last edited: