Wind River
Well-known member
Disappointed in the tighter chokes after Mod. 20ga IC/Mod for me all season. Rarely use non-tox.
Chokes matter?
- Thread starter Tomahawker
- Start date
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
Impressive, thank you!!!I feel confident that 129 #6 lead pellets on a 30” circle at 30 yards using cyl choke would be sufficient, and bumping up to skeet increases to almost 150…most of my
shots are 20-40 yards, I like the way more open chokes perform.
If you shoot Benelli like your name suggests, the chokes will be totally different than the INV+ he tested. Same constriction value compared to bore (.05 for skt), but different overall diameter and totally different patterns. Any case at 35-40 yards you will be shooting a blunderbuss with a cyl or skt choke, might want to step up to 1 3/8 #6 to hopefully get the density back up in 12ga. Id never try a cyl or skt at 35-40 yards in 20, ive shot enough patterns with mobile choke to know that wont work out.
Skt dia
Inv+ .735
Crio .720
Mobil .720
Joe Hunter
Active member
Here are the true constrictions of the chokes I used.
20-gauge Browning Citori w/28" barrels (bore .629")
Briley flush Invector-plus chokes
Choke constrictions per bore gauge
CYL / -.001”
SK / .005”
IC / .008”
M / .014”
IM / .017”
LF / .020”
F / .023”
XF / .026”
And yes, the only way to really know how your choke/load combo is performing is to pattern it.
20-gauge Browning Citori w/28" barrels (bore .629")
Briley flush Invector-plus chokes
Choke constrictions per bore gauge
CYL / -.001”
SK / .005”
IC / .008”
M / .014”
IM / .017”
LF / .020”
F / .023”
XF / .026”
And yes, the only way to really know how your choke/load combo is performing is to pattern it.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I shot a montefeltro for 20+ years, IC or Skt…shot more pheasants from ‘93-‘15 than would be imaginable. Been shooting my Benelli ultralight since then, IC 95% of the time. Killed 16 very efficiently with 1 1/4 oz of lead #5’s @ 1220 fps my last trip, hunted through 12/16. Heading back on 12/29 or 12/30, will use the same set up…it works. I have a Briley or Carlson LM tube for it, just never use it. With the snow that’s falling and drifting, I’ll be getting some very close flushes out of cattails next week…I’d rather tailor my set up to shots that are likely and that I’m equipped to make. However, 45-55 yard shots are common and pose no real issue if not straight aways. I was in SD in mid-Nov for 8 days, had 2 different groups out. The 2nd group we were hunting my
dogs only, and one guy had foot issues, so I tailored our hunt to small chunks of cover…the last day it was windy, and the birds were doing Mach speed pretty quickly. I missed a close lay up right away, but righted things after that, including 2 doubles…the first of which were fairly close shots, the second of which was a moderate length shot followed by a long shot…that spot was new to me, and was right before the end of the day. That ultralight has a raised rib, not sure if that helps me, but if I had to bet my life on a shot, that’d be the gun I’d grab…
dogs only, and one guy had foot issues, so I tailored our hunt to small chunks of cover…the last day it was windy, and the birds were doing Mach speed pretty quickly. I missed a close lay up right away, but righted things after that, including 2 doubles…the first of which were fairly close shots, the second of which was a moderate length shot followed by a long shot…that spot was new to me, and was right before the end of the day. That ultralight has a raised rib, not sure if that helps me, but if I had to bet my life on a shot, that’d be the gun I’d grab…
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Joe Hunter
Active member
For those that must or want to shoot steel loads, here are a few of my pattern with the same gun and chokes as above for your review.
Pattern results from a 20-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot inscribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, in-shell pellet count average of five, and choke constriction as measured with a bore gauge).
30 YARDS / CYL (-.001" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 123 (53%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 104 (56%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 75 (64%)
30 YARDS / SK (.005" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 173 (75%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 134 (70%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 101 (86%)
30 YARDS / IC (.008" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 181 (78%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 164 (86%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 105 (89%)
30 YARDS / M (.014" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 204 (88%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 179 (94%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 114 (97%)
40 YARDS / IM (.017" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 155 (67%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 147 (77%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 99 (84%)
40 YARDS / LF (.020" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 165 (71%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 145 (76%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 102 (86%)
40 YARDS / F (.023" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 165 (71%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 149 (78%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 92 (78%)
40 YARDS / XF (.026" const.)
Xpert Steel 2 3/4" 3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) / pattern 178 (77%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) / pattern 152 (80%)
Rem Nitro Steel 3” 1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) / pattern 101 (86%)
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I acquired a beretta BL 4 o/u 20
gauge in September, had it opened to .005/.012…worked great in SD in Nov…1 oz #5 lead, 1200 fps…about the constrictions of my AYA 4/53 20 gauge s x s…a gun I love!
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
I bot 66 rounds of 12 gauge hevi shot #6, the old load marketed for pheasants. The seller is a friend and a shooting fanatic…he said those loads pattern fairly
tight…I’ve got some WPA’s I’ll be hunting, will leave IC in the gun…
tight…I’ve got some WPA’s I’ll be hunting, will leave IC in the gun…
benelli-banger
Well-known member
My ultralight weighs 6lbs, I suspect I’m on the birds more quickly than with a 7-7.5 lb gun…slightly closer shots…3 yards? 5 yards? 7 yards? I don’t like hunting in a line, but when I do, I’m usually on a bird more quickly than whoever I’m next to…but I’m watching my dog(s) and may have an idea what’s about to happen…
Coach 20-Gauge
Member
Yeah, it's amazing how many people don't pay attention to the dog even after you tell them to. I have had to tell them, "Say, that dog right beside you? He's on point. I'd get my gun ready if I were you!"
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Been mentioned before, but confidence has a great deal to do with killing birds…I know what gives me confidence.
Coach 20-Gauge
Member
Yeah, that's one reason I like having two barrels, the upper choked Mod. But one can also refrain from taking 40-yard shots if he is choked Cyl or Skeet.
Put even a single #5 pellet in the chest and that bird is going down. It may be a challenging retrieve, but nothing for a good dog. Any time I have recovered one that flew 300 yards or more before dropping back in had not been hit in the chest -- they had been hit in the legs or guts only.
I'd rather be under-choked than over-.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Good friend of mine who was a frequent hunting partner of mine for 10+ years, closer to 15, shot cyl out of his 12 gauge montefeltro all the time, into late December…killed lots of birds. I have a briley skt tube for my montefeltro, used it a lot when that was my go-to gun from ‘93-‘15…rare when it wasn’t in. When I got my ultralight, I chose the factory IC tube for day to day hunting….I do have a skt tube for that gun along with the LM tube…I just stick with IC, but I could slip skt in next week…gonna be lots of close flushes, I suspect. I’ve been blessed with pretty good dogs—labs—and recovery hasn’t been too challenging over the past 30 years…I will say this year, with the extreme dry conditions, it hasn’t always been easy finding them, but it has helped hunting smaller covers, which I’ve done due to solo or very small groups.
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
Buddy of mine got shafted by his employer of 32 years back in 2020, bunch of us passed the hat and I found a nice Miroku o/u 12 gauge, had it opened to skt1/skt2…you should see the birds he brings down…I won’t quantify distances, but they’re out there…surprisingly long shots, including sharpies and huns, but pheasants mainly…good dog for recovery.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Bored, sorry…anyway, I was gonna describe where I usually am pointing/swinging the gun in relation to the bird…I guess it’s just leading the bird….but I really am thinking of birds that appear to be straight away, but there‘s usually a subtle bias one direction or another…I often am pointing right next to the bird, despite appearing to be flying straight away…or holding up and to the side, they’re rising much of the time as well…these are fairly close flushes…5, 10, 15 yards, shots at 10, 15, 20, 25 yards…lots of geometry to their flight paths! Crossers are obvious, but some presentations are a bit tricky and require some lead…sorry to be preaching to the choir! 
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Joe Hunter
Active member
Pretty hard to beat a SK (~.005") / LM (~.015") choke combo in an O/U or SxS for general hunting in good cover and with good dogs.
If the wind gets up big like it does sometimes in SD and the birds are flushing wild and going with the wind, an IC (~.010") / IM (~.025") choke combo may work out better.
Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot inscribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).
12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (STS, R209, GREEN DOT, CB1118-12)
1 1/8 oz #6 lead (267 pellets) @ 1225 fps
30 YARDS – CYL / pattern 147 (55%)
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 171 (64%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 211 (79%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 173 (65%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 182 (68%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 195 (73%)
12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (WAACF, W209, UNIQUE, CB1114-12)
1 1/4 oz #5 lead (210 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – CYL / pattern 125 (60%)
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 145 (69%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 177 (84%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 174 (83%)
50 YARDS – IM / pattern 125 (60%)
50 YARDS – LF / pattern 120 (57%)
50 YARDS – F / pattern 129 (61%)
Good luck!
If the wind gets up big like it does sometimes in SD and the birds are flushing wild and going with the wind, an IC (~.010") / IM (~.025") choke combo may work out better.
Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot inscribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).
12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (STS, R209, GREEN DOT, CB1118-12)
1 1/8 oz #6 lead (267 pellets) @ 1225 fps
30 YARDS – CYL / pattern 147 (55%)
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 171 (64%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 211 (79%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 173 (65%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 182 (68%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 195 (73%)
12 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (WAACF, W209, UNIQUE, CB1114-12)
1 1/4 oz #5 lead (210 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – CYL / pattern 125 (60%)
30 YARDS – SK / pattern 145 (69%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 177 (84%)
40 YARDS – LM / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 155 (74%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 174 (83%)
50 YARDS – IM / pattern 125 (60%)
50 YARDS – LF / pattern 120 (57%)
50 YARDS – F / pattern 129 (61%)
Good luck!
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Lots of time and $…thanks for sharing your data! your data confirms my confidence, and, historical results…
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
I personally dont shoot at anything past 30 unless someone else already hit it.
Kinda hard to get a chest hit on a pheasant from my experience, which is why you want a significantly tighter pattern for pheasants than you would say ducks where the shots are oncoming with an exposed head, neck, and breast. With pheasant we often need to punch through the backbone or up the rear and get multiple hits into the vitals. One #5 pellet is going to be a lot of work for any dog, and should never be the minimum goal for an ethical hunter imo
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
Me and my buddy both are shooting IM/LM in our 20s. He has been using 1oz 5s and ive been using 1 1/4 5s lately. Knock on wood, and im probably completely jinxing us right now, but not a single rooster that we have pulled up on has gotten away this season. And had one cripple so far that the dog found fairly easily, everything else was stone dead before it hit the ground. In fact we have been one shot kills all year, admittingly we have shot at the same time several times and I missed once. Neither one of us have touched off the IM barrel yet. All wild birds.
Coach 20-Gauge
Member
The old saying applies: tight chokes help a good shooter and hurt one that isn't so good. I like IC/M but for many something like Sk/IC would be much better.
Bob Peters
Well-known member
Hey Tomahawker, I think it's great that you had such a nice day at the preserve with your young son, get them out there and get them hooked on hunting and shooting. That's awesome that he dropped a bunch of birds, I'm always happy to hear of a new or young shooter having some success. Don't listen to KEO, he is just knowledgeable enough to think that he knows everything, but he has often been proven wrong, although he'll never see the truth of it. He puts out an opinion and won't listen to anyone. I'm not even saying he's wrong about everything, but he's wrong enough. I've read the canon of all shotgun wing shooting literature, and you know what? Not one author recommends over constricting your barrel. The one thing they all say is that to a man, most upland shooters making a mistake on chokes are going too tight. Brister, McIntosh, Brown, Grooms, not a one reccomends going to tight chokes. To tell truth, at the most common shots we have on upland game, a fringe hit is more likely on close flushing birds with a tight choke than an open one. How many grouse hunters shoot a full and fuller? How many skeet shooters? Shotgunning is always part science and part art, as long as you're thinking about it and trying to improve, you are doing the right things.