Blue Grouse

[Hunter1971]

I will be out Sunday with my Setter trying to find some grouse and then on Tuesday when hopefully everyone else is back at work we will try our luck with the doves. :thumbsup:

Good luck to everyone! Be safe and have a BLAST!!! :cheers:

 

[BleuBijou]

Just to get you Pumped up for Opening Day!!!

 

[conobirds]

Well it worked! Those are some great photos:10sign:

 

[Frangler]

Very nice!:cheers:

 

[Frangler]

Went up to my favorite grouse spot opening morning with my new 10 month old GSP "Molly" and two of my friends. Turned out to be a very memorable opener. Driving through town to on our way we saw a huge Black bear tearing trash cans apart in a back ally which was a neat surprise. Started hunting by 8:00 A.M. and bumped our first two grouse shortly after but all that was hit were tree limbs. We hunted our way up an open forest meadow when "Molly" hit the breaks and turned in towards our three man skirmish line and locked up. My friend Corey walked in as Jon and I pinched from the sides. Then they start two flush, first just one then a second and a third a so on until we think 9 or 10 different birds got up and only two went down. Blue grouse like to stagger their flushes and if you miss one bird always reload before taking another step. This was "Molly's" point on Blues and I knew we were in for a special day. We hadn't walked more than 50 yards when "Molly" started getting birdy again but before she could zero in on where the birds were two got up in front of Corey and were quickly picked off my Corey and Jon. We finished up the draw and didn't find any more so we decided to hunt our way down the next draw to a logging road that would take us back to our truck. We were pushing through a juicy piece of habitat when Molly locked up again! Two big male Blues got up and came right at me an with two shots out of my side by side 20 I had both birds. Now that I had shot my limit I wanted to try and get some of the action on my camera. We had about 20 minute lull after that and got onto the logging road that takes us back up the mountain. We were near the end when Molly went on point again Jon and Corey were up to bat and walked up towards the point. As they got close 5 grouse flushed through the trees and it took four shots but they had tagged two birds into some really thick nasty cover. Molly brought both birds back but has developed a bit of a hard mouth, any tips for fixing this would be greatly appreciated. We ended up one shy of a three man limit on Blues and did it all with one 10 month old dog. I am really excited for this bird dogs future as she hunted just as good as my five year old GSP on Blues.

 

[1pheas4]

Very nice photos guys. Thanks for sharing those with us!!!:cheers:

 

[mustistuff]

giving my the blues

that was one great hunt, the action out of a 10 mo. old gsp doesn't surprise me as i have been there with a lot of them, that many blues was fantastic and have a number of them hold was really great. not knowing anything about your training but there are lots of hints out there that you can try and work with. i have never had that problem and a friend has never avoided the problem. you more than likely caused it and it gotta be fixed. one thing, on retrieving, don't take the bird away from the dog, that caused them to clamp down, make it give you the bird. things you might try is to let the dog carry the bird till it gets sick of it, take hold of the collar so the dog knows it is caught and the game is up, third, if it is still in the mouth you might pinch a lip to make it let go. go easy on what ever you do and study the situation. remember, the dog was not born that way, he was taught it so you might look at yourself to see the problem. if not looked at, the problem will get worse, not better with age. all the books say to tug of war, i don't believe that but maybe it can be over done, don't know. mostly i think it was you forcing the dog to give you something it didn't want to and you rushed it. good luck

 

[walk213]

Those are fantastic pictures and a great story. I need to chase blue grouse in the future. Looks like a lot of fun. Congrats.

 

[retrvrman]

Went up to my favorite grouse spot opening morning with my new 10 month old GSP "Molly" and two of my friends. Turned out to be a very memorable opener. Driving through town to on our way we saw a huge Black bear tearing trash cans apart in a back ally which was a neat surprise. Started hunting by 8:00 A.M. and bumped our first two grouse shortly after but all that was hit were tree limbs. We hunted our way up an open forest meadow when "Molly" hit the breaks and turned in towards our three man skirmish line and locked up. My friend Corey walked in as Jon and I pinched from the sides. Then they start two flush, first just one then a second and a third a so on until we think 9 or 10 different birds got up and only two went down. Blue grouse like to stagger their flushes and if you miss one bird always reload before taking another step. This was "Molly's" point on Blues and I knew we were in for a special day. We hadn't walked more than 50 yards when "Molly" started getting birdy again but before she could zero in on where the birds were two got up in front of Corey and were quickly picked off my Corey and Jon. We finished up the draw and didn't find any more so we decided to hunt our way down the next draw to a logging road that would take us back to our truck. We were pushing through a juicy piece of habitat when Molly locked up again! Two big male Blues got up and came right at me an with two shots out of my side by side 20 I had both birds. Now that I had shot my limit I wanted to try and get some of the action on my camera. We had about 20 minute lull after that and got onto the logging road that takes us back up the mountain. We were near the end when Molly went on point again Jon and Corey were up to bat and walked up towards the point. As they got close 5 grouse flushed through the trees and it took four shots but they had tagged two birds into some really thick nasty cover. Molly brought both birds back but has developed a bit of a hard mouth, any tips for fixing this would be greatly appreciated. We ended up one shy of a three man limit on Blues and did it all with one 10 month old dog. I am really excited for this bird dogs future as she hunted just as good as my five year old GSP on Blues.

That awesome :coolpics:
Thanks for sharing...makes me want to get dressed, loaded up and head to the mts. :thumbsup:

That is also pretty darn good for a 10month old GSP.

Greg

 

[rwalker]

The Mike Tyson Dog Training School

if a lip pinch doesn't free the bird you may try an ear bite. It's how momma dog corrects pups and how pups correct each other. Command to drop or give comes one time once dog is at heal then immediate correction . Amazing how well and fast that trick works on a dog that won't give. If the dog is chewing or rolling bird on the way in its probably back to the table to shore up force fetch. Hold command with a frozen bird for ten minutes per day. I have had to address this with my pup as well and this seemed to help. No squeaky toys.

 

[retrvrman]

if a lip pinch doesn't free the bird you may try an ear bite. It's how momma dog corrects pups and how pups correct each other. Command to drop or give comes one time once dog is at heal then immediate correction . Amazing how well and fast that trick works on a dog that won't give. If the dog is chewing or rolling bird on the way in its probably back to the table to shore up force fetch. Hold command with a frozen bird for ten minutes per day. I have had to address this with my pup as well and this seemed to help. No squeaky toys.

Good advice rwalker....however a couple of other points to note:

No tug of war....you have to keep an eye on kids around a young dog. They tend to teach some bad habits, like playing tug of war, jumping up on you, barking, etc.

Force Fetch/Trained Retrieve, doing the whole process or program all the way through is the best way. The tips some of these guys have given will help, however they may be a short term fix. I have been hunting, training, running tests with retrievers since 1992 and IMHO FF done correctly is the best way.

Kind of like what I tell my kids, don't do something half ass, do it right the first time and all the way.

Greg

 

[retrvrman]

Went up to my favorite grouse spot opening morning with my new 10 month old GSP "Molly" and two of my friends. Turned out to be a very memorable opener. Driving through town to on our way we saw a huge Black bear tearing trash cans apart in a back ally which was a neat surprise. Started hunting by 8:00 A.M. and bumped our first two grouse shortly after but all that was hit were tree limbs. We hunted our way up an open forest meadow when "Molly" hit the breaks and turned in towards our three man skirmish line and locked up. My friend Corey walked in as Jon and I pinched from the sides. Then they start two flush, first just one then a second and a third a so on until we think 9 or 10 different birds got up and only two went down. Blue grouse like to stagger their flushes and if you miss one bird always reload before taking another step. This was "Molly's" point on Blues and I knew we were in for a special day. We hadn't walked more than 50 yards when "Molly" started getting birdy again but before she could zero in on where the birds were two got up in front of Corey and were quickly picked off my Corey and Jon. We finished up the draw and didn't find any more so we decided to hunt our way down the next draw to a logging road that would take us back to our truck. We were pushing through a juicy piece of habitat when Molly locked up again! Two big male Blues got up and came right at me an with two shots out of my side by side 20 I had both birds. Now that I had shot my limit I wanted to try and get some of the action on my camera. We had about 20 minute lull after that and got onto the logging road that takes us back up the mountain. We were near the end when Molly went on point again Jon and Corey were up to bat and walked up towards the point. As they got close 5 grouse flushed through the trees and it took four shots but they had tagged two birds into some really thick nasty cover. Molly brought both birds back but has developed a bit of a hard mouth, any tips for fixing this would be greatly appreciated. We ended up one shy of a three man limit on Blues and did it all with one 10 month old dog. I am really excited for this bird dogs future as she hunted just as good as my five year old GSP on Blues.

When you say "hard mouth", would you mind describing exactly what she was doing and what was going on? This would help clarify things a bit. Sometimes dogs "stick", which is different from "hardmouth". Hardmouth generally describes when a dog actually chomps down on the bird and crushes the bones to were the game is not fit for the table. Sticking is when a dog will not release/give/drop the bird when commanded to do so. This can result from to much pressure, playing tug of war, something could have happend when she was little pup that may have caused the sticking...however it can be cured by finding a good GSP FF book, looking up on youtube (some good videos with GSP's that show the do's and don'ts about FF).

The key to FF and curing sticking or hardmouth is consistency and repitition. Teaching hold, not with a frozen bird, but using your hand with a leather glove on and teaching hold that way, this helps from the dog chewing and chomping down.

Have your dog up on a table/elevated surface at eye level...if not then you will have to bend down to the ground. Initially you will insert your gloved hand into the dogs mouth and command "HOLD". When she chews, try to spit it out, grab the rough of your dogs neck, and pull up/back. This should stop her from chewing or spitting all the while you are still commanding HOLD. Once she accepts your hand, tap on the underside of her muzzle/jaw and command HOLD. When you go to take your gloved hand out of her mouth command give/drop/release (whichever command you want to use).

Do this everyday for no more than 10minutes. Keep it short and afterwards to relieve the stress, throw a happy ball or something. Always ends on a good note as well.

I would still recommend checking out videos on youtube and there are some decent ones out there that give a better idea of what I am describing.

I hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions or PM me and I can give you my number.

Greg

 

[Frangler]

Thanks for the tips guys! I don't play tug of war with my dogs as I want them to like holding the bird. She rolls them in her mouth and just grabs them roughly. I've never had the problem with my other dogs in the past so it looks like it's back to the training yard. Thanks again!

 

[Curious]

As everyone else has stated those are some great pic's. Great way to spend the day. Is that a CZ Canvasback leaned up against your truck in the last pic? How do you like it?

 

[Frangler]

As everyone else has stated those are some great pic's. Great way to spend the day. Is that a CZ Canvasback leaned up against your truck in the last pic? How do you like it?

Thanks, it was a memorable day! All three shotguns in the picture are actually Stoeger 20 gauges. I have a little side by side with a 24" barrel that's great for up close shooting for grouse and quail.

 

[Frangler]

When you say "hard mouth", would you mind describing exactly what she was doing and what was going on? This would help clarify things a bit. Sometimes dogs "stick", which is different from "hardmouth". Hardmouth generally describes when a dog actually chomps down on the bird and crushes the bones to were the game is not fit for the table. Sticking is when a dog will not release/give/drop the bird when commanded to do so. This can result from to much pressure, playing tug of war, something could have happend when she was little pup that may have caused the sticking...however it can be cured by finding a good GSP FF book, looking up on youtube (some good videos with GSP's that show the do's and don'ts about FF).

The key to FF and curing sticking or hardmouth is consistency and repitition. Teaching hold, not with a frozen bird, but using your hand with a leather glove on and teaching hold that way, this helps from the dog chewing and chomping down.

Have your dog up on a table/elevated surface at eye level...if not then you will have to bend down to the ground. Initially you will insert your gloved hand into the dogs mouth and command "HOLD". When she chews, try to spit it out, grab the rough of your dogs neck, and pull up/back. This should stop her from chewing or spitting all the while you are still commanding HOLD. Once she accepts your hand, tap on the underside of her muzzle/jaw and command HOLD. When you go to take your gloved hand out of her mouth command give/drop/release (whichever command you want to use).

Do this everyday for no more than 10minutes. Keep it short and afterwards to relieve the stress, throw a happy ball or something. Always ends on a good note as well.

I would still recommend checking out videos on youtube and there are some decent ones out there that give a better idea of what I am describing.

I hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions or PM me and I can give you my number.

Greg

Thanks for the tips Greg. I'll look up some videos. She grabs the bird and will bring it 70% of the way back to me but she keeps repositioning the bird in her mouthful on the retrieve. To make matters worse she bites down pretty hard and tears the skin on the bird and also tears the meat a little bit. The meat isn't ruined but the birds breast meat is exposed and she even squeezed one hard enough to make the guts push out!! I think teaching her to hold with your hand and a glove sounds like a good solution. She will retrieve her bumper all the way and heel and hold until I tell her to release so I think it may have to due with the feathers falling off in her mouth. After she drops the bird while hunting she leaves it and starts to hunt again.

 

[Uplandhunter67]

We went out on Saturday and wore off some boot leather.... Flushed seven and knocked down four. Flushed a single in the dark timber and the rest were pairs. Lots of water and the birds were spread out.
Sorry but I can't seem to upload photos anymore... I guess you'll have to imagine my big black lab lying behind four dead grouse... You guys have seen it before so it is an easy memory...

What happened to the photo upload????

 

[Mountainfarmer]

We found about a dozen birds both sunday and monday but only took two shots and that was at long birds... they were in some of the thickest cover I have ever found blues in, hopefully they move into meadows shortly.

As for the hard mouth, these guys had all the right tips. I let my gwp pup hunt all last year without force fetch and he was super stoked to hunt, and never failed to go get a bird, at any distance or cover........but he would beat them up pretty good on the way back, and then often turned into a game of keep away, which I usually had to trick him to win. After the season we went through FF and then went to some game farms to reinforce in a hunting situation. All seems good now, and as a bonus it seems the bit of pressure from force fetch sharpens his response to all the other things I ask of him while in the field.

 

[retrvrman]

We went out on Saturday and wore off some boot leather.... Flushed seven and knocked down four. Flushed a single in the dark timber and the rest were pairs. Lots of water and the birds were spread out.
Sorry but I can't seem to upload photos anymore... I guess you'll have to imagine my big black lab lying behind four dead grouse... You guys have seen it before so it is an easy memory...

What happened to the photo upload????

I am wondering the same damn thing

I can't upload either and I have tried that website too and it doesn't work. I can just see the photos, big ole black lab, exhausted and hot from doing all the work Looking down on those itty bitty grouse going "really, were is my treat".

Naw, I think I have a line on some areas, maybe even your honey hole

Might try to head up there the next couple of weeks before the weather gets to bad or crazy. Glad you had a good hunt and you only got four, man you must be slipping lol

Greg

 

[retrvrman]

We found about a dozen birds both sunday and monday but only took two shots and that was at long birds... they were in some of the thickest cover I have ever found blues in, hopefully they move into meadows shortly.

As for the hard mouth, these guys had all the right tips. I let my gwp pup hunt all last year without force fetch and he was super stoked to hunt, and never failed to go get a bird, at any distance or cover........but he would beat them up pretty good on the way back, and then often turned into a game of keep away, which I usually had to trick him to win. After the season we went through FF and then went to some game farms to reinforce in a hunting situation. All seems good now, and as a bonus it seems the bit of pressure from force fetch sharpens his response to all the other things I ask of him while in the field.

Awesome :thumbsup::10sign: Glad to hear it worked for you. It amazing what going through that process will do with all your other training and hunting. It is kind of the "Alpha" type dominance thing too. Meaning, when you give a command he/she knows you have a way to reinforce so they better obey it.

Greg