Bloat = dead dog

jnormanh

jnormanh

New member
Among the deep chested breeds, which includes most bird dogs, nearly 30% of those dogs will die of bloat. That's one in every three dogs. more than die of heart attack and cancer combined.

Let me repeat that. Bloat kills one of every three deep chested dogs.

And yet most of those dogs could be saved by prompt veterinary treatment.

Breeders, trainers and vets seldom tell dog owners about this. Why I do not know. Folks talk about food and vaccinations, and heart worm forever, yet almost nothing is said about bloat, which kills far more dogs than bad food, lack of vaccination and heart worm combined.

I'm no vet, but I have had two dogs which survived bloat and so I've learned about it. The first of those two survived only because he was being boarded at the time, and the alert kennel recognized the problem and took immediate action. With the second, we knew about bloat and took immediate action. In both cases an hour or two delay and the dogs would have died.

Bloat occurs when the stomach torsions, or twists. That shuts off the entrance and exit of the stomach, the gas from digestion expands the stomach, blood vessels to internal organs are compressed, the organs die and the dog dies. Start to finish the entire process from torsion to death is just a few hours. Without prompt intervention the result is certain death.

Bloat symptoms are not always so obvious. The dog will be restless, wandering around, unable to sleep. He may try to vomit, but will be able to. He may try to drink, but will not be able to. His abdomen will be swollen.

Bloat most often happens at night, and it's common for owners to think: "Fido has a belly-ache. If it's not better by morning, we'll take him to the vet." By morning Fido is dead.

Bloat is an all-out, flat-out emergency. You must get the dog to a vet. If you're lucky enough to live in/near a city with an emergency vet clinic, go there. Right now. If there's no emergency clinic, call your vet, at home, in the middle of the night, tell him what is going on and head for his office. Right now. There is no time to think, there is no time to wait. You must get your dog to a vet. Period.

If you get to a vet in time, he can probably save your dog. He make be able to to that by passing a stomach tube to relieve the gas pressure. More likely he will have to do emergency surgery to turn the stomach over and relieve the pressure.

Now suppose you are out in the field somewhere, no vet within anywhere near.

There is one possible remedy which might buy you enough time to get to a vet, and for that reason you should carry at least one large bore hypodermic needle, 16 ga or larger. You might just buy your dog some time by puncturing his stomach and releasing some gas with a hypodermic needle (no syringe) through the abdomen. Maybe. You might also stick him ineffectually, or in the wrong place. In a situation where there is no other choice, you might have to try.

All of our dogs will die someday. Lets hope they do so of old age, lying in our arms, not suffering in pain, during the prime of their lives of bloat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloat
 
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What caused the issue with your dogs?

Prevention is the best cure for just about any serious medical condition.
Don't feed your dog before a morning workout is the most common preventative most of us can think of. Are there other situations we should be avoiding?

Here's a link that answers my own questions:
http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm
 
Exactly. Don't feed 2 hrs prior, and 2 hrs after excersize, to avoid what is also known as a knot. I have been doing that simple thing for 30 years and have never had it happen, ever. If you feed your dog in the morning before a hard hunt, some during a hunt or just after a hard hunt. Thats when you may have a better chance of trouble. I feed later in the eve, then they relax and digest more of the food. They have a nice cable laying session in the am early, and off we go, Repeat.
 
I wish bloat could be prevented by something as simple feeding and exercise routines, but there is much more to it than that.

Much of what is out there on the internet is simply old wives tales. What the experts, veterinary researchers, will tell you is that heredity is one of the major predictors. Highly inbred dogs (show dogs, trials dogs) are more likely to bloat. Young dogs, under 5 years seldom bloat. Male dogs bloat more frequently than females.

Our last incident of bloat happened about 6 AM, 12 hours after the dog had last eaten, and before any exercise.

My only purpose in posting this is to alert everyone who might not know about bloat that it is a serious condition requiring immediate action. If you feel better with certain feeding/exercise routines, use them, but be aware that there is no foolproof way to prevent bloat other than preemptive surgery (Laparoscopic gastropexy), and that's a rather drastic method.

Here's a better article about bloat.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1677&aid=402
 
Some things that you may do to help prevent the happening of bloat is to feed some moist food with the dry food. This can be in the form of canned food or even some lean table scraps. Some believe that this helps with the fermentation of dry dog food in the stomachs of these dogs. Really the only thing you can do that is 100% fail safe is educate yourself to the signs and symptoms of bloat and when you notice them or think you notice them act immediatelly. Time is not on your side so the faster you react the better. Have a plan and know of emergency vets in your area.
 
HUNTIN4FUN said:
. Really the only thing you can do that is 100% fail safe is educate yourself to the signs and symptoms of bloat and when you notice them or think you notice them act immediatelly. Time is not on your side so the faster you react the better. Have a plan and know of emergency vets in your area.
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Thanks for saying that in many fewer words than I used.
 
Good topic guys. Thankfully, bloat, or gastric dilitation volvolus (GDV) is a very treatable and preventable condition. As the original poster noted, this condition occors most commonly in large breed, deep chested dogs. It is most often seen when dogs consume a large meal, exercise, or ingest air. Dogs that tend to gulp their food are also succeptible. The danger is not necessarily that they bloat, it is when the torsion, or volvulus occurs. This basically cuts off circulation to the stomach and parts of the intestines which in turn causes a cascade of events ultimately leading to death. The only way to almost 100% prevent the condition is to perform a gastropexy, either via a laproscope or with open abdomen surgery. There are several methods, but each will basically attach the stomach to the abdominal wall, preventing it from twisting. A lot of owners of succeptible dogs choose to have this elective procedure done at the time of spay for the females.
There are some other things that can be done to prevent this from happening that have not been mentioned. One is to slow down their eating by placing large heavy objects in the food bowl forcing them to eat around them. Another is to elevate the food dish to a more anatomically correct position (head and neck level). You may also elect to feed smaller meals more frequently. Each of these helps to minimize the amount of air that is ingested with the food.
Treatment is aimed at relieving the bloat as soon as possible. We first try to pass a large bore stomach tube. Often this is unsuccessful either because there is a torsion or because the ingesta is too frothy to pass through the tube. Otherwise you are forced to do surgery, and if things go well finish by doing the gastropexy.
 
Great Thread

This thread alone is invaluable. Thank you so much for this excellent knowledge. My friends lost a much loved dog to bloat, not knowing what was going on, playing it conservative, hoping the dog would be better, and then . . . it was too late. It only took a few hours. Thank you!
 
The Knowledgeable Voice of a Veterinarian

njcraddock said:
Good topic guys. Thankfully, bloat, or gastric dilitation volvolus (GDV) is a very treatable and preventable condition. As the original poster noted, this condition occors most commonly in large breed, deep chested dogs. It is most often seen when dogs consume a large meal, exercise, or ingest air. Dogs that tend to gulp their food are also succeptible. The danger is not necessarily that they bloat, it is when the torsion, or volvulus occurs. This basically cuts off circulation to the stomach and parts of the intestines which in turn causes a cascade of events ultimately leading to death. The only way to almost 100% prevent the condition is to perform a gastropexy, either via a laproscope or with open abdomen surgery. There are several methods, but each will basically attach the stomach to the abdominal wall, preventing it from twisting. A lot of owners of succeptible dogs choose to have this elective procedure done at the time of spay for the females.
There are some other things that can be done to prevent this from happening that have not been mentioned. One is to slow down their eating by placing large heavy objects in the food bowl forcing them to eat around them. Another is to elevate the food dish to a more anatomically correct position (head and neck level). You may also elect to feed smaller meals more frequently. Each of these helps to minimize the amount of air that is ingested with the food.
Treatment is aimed at relieving the bloat as soon as possible. We first try to pass a large bore stomach tube. Often this is unsuccessful either because there is a torsion or because the ingesta is too frothy to pass through the tube. Otherwise you are forced to do surgery, and if things go well finish by doing the gastropexy.[/QUOTET

Thank you, doctor, for this excellent information.
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I have always added water to the dry food during the hunts for two reasons. First is to slow down his intake and second is so he gets some water as he tends not to drink much after the field. Bloat has always concerned me and I am always looking out for it.
 
My sister in law just lost her golden to bloat last week. Her dog was being boarded at a Vet while we were all away at a wedding. The Vet called her the next morning and said they did a walk through of the Kennel at 11 PM, and by 5 AM when the morning crew came on she was gone. Gloat is scary stuff. We board our lab and brit at a Vet just for these kinds of reasons, but even then, sometimes it isn't enough.
 
this is from a Purdue univeristy study and some items are in complete contrast to what other have said. Like raising the food bowl and adding water to food. According to Purdue's study using a raised food bowl increased risk by 110%

NEW PERDUE BLOAT STUDY- 3/2009

Recent studies are shedding more light on gastric dilatation volvulus (GDV), otherwise known as bloat. It is the second leading cause of death in large-breed and giant-breed dogs. GDV strikes suddenly and has a mortality rate as high as 30%.

Research primarily at Purdue University has identified a number of feeding management and dietary factors that increased the risk of GDV. Following are some of the Study recommendations:

● Feed two or more meals a day

● Feed no more than one cup per 33 lbs of body weight per meal when feeding two meals

● Feed an energy-dense diet to reduce volume but avoid a diet where a high amount of calories are from fats

● Feed a variety of different food types, the inclusion of human foods in a dry dog food diet was associated with a 59%
decreased risk while canned pet foods was associated with a 28% decreased risk

● When feeding dry food also include foods with sufficient amounts of meats and meat meals, ie: beef, lamb, poultry and fish

● Fat should not be listed in the first four label ingredients, nor should corn

● Citric acid should not be used as a preservative

● Feed a food with larger particles and include larger pieces of meat to the diet

● Avoid moistening dry foods, but donâ??t restrict water intake before and after feeding

● Reduce a rapid speed of eating (Note from GSRNE: Try using a Brake fast bowl, spreading the kibble on the floor or on a cookie sheet, or splitting up the food into muffin tins to slow the dog's eating)

● Avoid raising the food bowl

● Minimize stressful events

● Restrict vigorous exercise one hour before and two hours after meals
 
I just read the abstract from the Purdue study, but I wasn't able to access the entire article right away. The two things that are the most striking to me are: 1. They are recommending that you do not raise the food dish. This is directly opposing every recommendation I've ever seen and what we were taught in school. Interesting. And 2. There was no statistical difference between the research and control groups regarding moistening of food. The difference between the groups (dry vs. moistened) arose in the foods containing high amounts of citric acid. Now I haven't researched diets so I'm not sure which are considered high in citric acid or what levels are considered high for that matter, but the abstract says that there was a significant difference. So it is probably best to avoid moistening foods that are high in citric acid. Thanks for posting that. Here's a link to the abstract:

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/dissertations/AAI3099198/
 
njcraddock said:
I just read the abstract from the Purdue study, but I wasn't able to access the entire article right away. The two things that are the most striking to me are: 1. They are recommending that you do not raise the food dish. This is directly opposing every recommendation I've ever seen and what we were taught in school. Interesting. And 2. There was no statistical difference between the research and control groups regarding moistening of food. The difference between the groups (dry vs. moistened) arose in the foods containing high amounts of citric acid. Now I haven't researched diets so I'm not sure which are considered high in citric acid or what levels are considered high for that matter, but the abstract says that there was a significant difference. So it is probably best to avoid moistening foods that are high in citric acid. Thanks for posting that. Here's a link to the abstract:

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/dissertations/AAI3099198/
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yah.. when i read that last post about the purdue test... advoid raising the food bowls? the whole reason for a large breed putting his or her head all the way down to the bowl allows more air to flow through with the food causing gas and bloat. also elvated helps restrict air flow and is actually the whole idea of it.

second, do not moist the dry food? my pup is consuming dry purina Pro Plan Puppy food and i tend to give abit of a water to moist the food per breeder told me to do til shes at least 3-4 months old then give straight dry food.

i find this confusing and now question the rest of the quotes.

one i find kind of something i would much rather NOT do but on occasions..

Feed a variety of different food types, the inclusion of human foods in a dry dog food diet was associated with a 59%
decreased risk while canned pet foods was associated with a 28% decreased risk
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didnt they say that feeding a variety of different food type upset the dog's stomache? even like getting a new kind of dog food, youre suppose to blend your old to your new at the start of changing over til its pure food from the new bag/brand.


who feeds their dog 2 or more times a day?

Feed two or more meals a day
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i only feed 2 times a day, not 3, not 4, not 5 not 6 and so on. I give enuf per body weight per am/pm feeding.
 
heres what i found from www.vetinfo.com

heres some clarifications of why elevated food bowl stands can be dangers.. however.. the dog's family tree may be the cause of a geneitc bloat problem... if your dog does not have a history of it or from the family tree. i think you may be okay..

correct me if im wrong!! sometimes i interept things wrong..


vetinfo.com said:
Causes of bloat
Some causes are believed to be rapid eating, elevated food bowls, dry foods that contain citric acid as a preservative, dry foods that contain fat among the first four ingredients, insufficient pancreatic enzymes, dilution of gastric juices necessary for complete digestion by drinking too much water before or after eating, eating gas-producing foods, drinking too much water too quickly, heredity-especially having a first degree relative who has bloated, build & physical characteristics and disposition. In addition to the risk factors listed, many veterinarians believe that stress also causes bloat.

Benefits of elevated feeders
Elevated dog feeders offer your dog some real health benefits. Dogs tend to lift their heads after taking a drink to facilitate swallowing. With an elevated feeder, they do not have to raise their heads as far. Your dog is able to maintain better posture and a more comfortable stance while eating and drinking. An improved posture causes less stress on your dog's back and joints. This is important for senior, arthritic or dogs with other conditions that make swallowing difficult.

Effects of elevated feeders
It's inadvisable to use elevated feeders if you have a dog already susceptible to bloat. An elevated feeder may increase your dogs risk for bloat especially if he/she has a relative who has bloated.

Research Findings
Scientists at many locations have been studying gastric dilatation and volvulus (GDV), commonly called bloat, for a long time. They have identified a number of likely factors, including behavioral traits. Breed susceptibility is pretty obvious for many deep chested dogs. The risk of bloat does appear to increase with age.

The Glickman et al study found that use of a raised feeder increases the risk of bloat by 110%. Dr. Glickman's data showed that "approximately 20% and 50% of cases of GDV among the large and giant breed dogs, respectively, were attributed to having a raised food bowl." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2000;217:1492-1499). It should be noted that Dr. Glickman's study was confined only to large and giant breed dogs.

However, studies on risk factors for bloat associated with elevated feeders are unclear. Conflicting results from research studies is not that uncommon. Results may differ because different techniques are used or other medical conditions are present. Elevated feeders could also influence other factors such as the speed of eating. More research needs to be done on GDV in relation to using elevated feeders. It is uncertain whether anything we do such as changing the amount of exercise, using elevated feeders, or speed of eating will decrease or increase the rate of bloat.
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I do like that last quote.. "However, studies on risk factors for bloat associated with elevated feeders are unclear."


so whats unclear about it? they are saying not to use it... if so, if this is a 110% accurate test, why are vets or pet stores still selling it? dr foster and smith are one to promote that you use your raised bowls for large breeds to reduce the chance of getting bloat...

im confused...

1. Less strain on the joint and muscles of the dog.

2. Dog swallow less air when eating from raised bowls. This speeds up digestion.

3. Good posture is good for the long term health of the dog.
 
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Well, that's the thing about research. It's often difficult to draw conclusions from just one study, and it could take multiple studies to refute conventional wisdom. There are just too many variables.
In this case I believe that would do the things necessary to slow down eating and minimize stress. You can't go wrong with that. I would also try to plan on feeding my dogs at least twice daily and avoid exercising within a couple hours of feeding. When choosing puppies I would try to avoid those lines where there is a history of GDV. And lastly, try not to let your dogs consume huge amounts of water at once, and especially right before or after eating.
My interpretation of the whole human food thing, and the point I think the authors are trying to make is that we should allow them to eat more meat. But we have to be careful here that we should only feed lean meats to minimize the fat intake and we need to have that as a mainstay in the diet. By feeding meat regularly we should avoid GI upset. This also happens to open another can of worms. As vets we have preached for years to avoid feeding table scraps. Aside from all the dental health and fat content issues we have to ensure that the diets are nutritionally balanced. This does not just refer to the protein percentages, but also the relative percentages of all the components (protien / fats / carbohydrates / fiber / vitamins / trace minerals). When you start supplementing one or more of these components you throw the whole formula out of whack. This is why I'll usually shy away from most supplements and why I prefer large pet food producers over smaller mills. One criteria that you can look for on the food label is the order of the ingredients. They are required to list them in order of quantity. Look for foods where meat and meat meals are listed before grains. Both are excellent sources of protein but we don't want too much of that to come from grains, namely corn.
Regarding raising the food dish for posture reasons, I don't think I would worry too much about that. Dogs spend so little relative time eating that I don't think it would make any difference. Besides, I want them to have their noses to the ground looking for birds!
Hopes this helps you a little!
 
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Too much talk about minor issues, rumors and suppositions and how many angels can sit on the head of a pin.

Bloat happens mostly in deep chested dogs. Worry less about other breeds but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat happens much more frequently in male dogs. Worry less about females but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat happens mostly in dogs older than five years. Worry less about young dogs but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat can happen regardless of what, how and when you feed your dog.

You may be able to somewhat reduce the risk of bloat, but you cannot prevent it. Ir may happen to your dog, and it may not. If it does, it won't matter whether you used a raised bowl, or fed him T-bone.

Any dog, of any age, any breed, fed any food can bloat.

The key is to be aware of bloat, recognize it if it happens, and be prepared to act.
 
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jnormanh said:
Too much talk about minor issues, rumors and suppositions and how many angels can sit on the head of a pin.

Bloat happens mostly in deep chested dogs. Worry less about other breeds but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat happens much more frequently in male dogs. Worry less about females but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat happens mostly in dogs older than five years. Worry less about young dogs but be alert. They bloat too.

Bloat can happen regardless of what, how and when you feed your dog.

You may be able to somewhat reduce the risk of bloat, but you cannot prevent it. Ir may happen to your dog, and it may not. If it does, it won't matter whether you used a raised bowl, or fed him T-bone.

Any dog, of any age, any breed, fed any food can bloat.

The key is to be aware of bloat, recognize it if it happens, and be prepared to act.
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well said.. human can get sick any day, so expect a dog to get sick any day as well. just dogs cant tell you if they are feeling funny or if they are bloating. so observation is probably your best key to preventing your dog from dying from bloat.

but the thing about bloat, not everyone knows what to look for when your dog is bloating..

when my dad's cow bloat, he doesnt know til they are laying on their side wheezing trying to breath. so its like a spur of a moment when it attacks and starts.

my mother feeds her golden retreiver for years and years in a feed pan in the shed and its not even elevated and Sandy (golden retriever) 12 years old still going....
 
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