In my opinion, Retriever Hunt Tests and actual upland hunting for wild pheasants are two different things. Some dogs do both well, and many do one or the other well. A highly titled dog (including some 4xGMPR’s / Triple Crown dogs, MH / MNH dogs and HRCH / Grand dogs) doesn’t necessarily equate to a great upland dog. It could, but I don’t think it should be considered a given. Duck hunting may be different, I don’t know. Hunt tests seem to require a lot of control between the handler and the dog. Not as much control in the upland field. And a dogs breeding doesn’t necessarily mean that the puppy is going to be the exact replica of mom or dad. It’s a an indicator, but not a guarantee.
Best Dogs
- Thread starter Birdman2
- Start date
Mosby
Well-known member
I've hunted behind a lot of avg dogs and happy to do it. Most of them were mine. Whatever weakness or faults they had were likely my fault to begin with and I miss them all. Get my limit or no birds at all....neither is that big a deal as I get older. As long as the dog doesn't take off for Texas and is working, I go with the flow and enjoy the day. Go out in the morning, pick up a pizza on the way home and put a football game on after a quick shower. A cold beer and tuckered out dogs hunkered down into the pillows next to me. I'm good.
ehudgens
Active member
I couldn't agree more with this observation. I personally do not test my dogs. However, I have hunted extensively with guys who test and do extremely well in NAVHDA and NADKC. Both of my buddies are/were very involved in these organizations, and both were judges as well. It's really unbelievable what some of these dogs are able to do and achieve, however, I don't know how well this translates into finding and holding wild birds. In my opinion I think the training is so exhaustive that it inhibits their ability to handle running wild birds.
When it comes to hunting wild birds my "meat dogs" (that's what they always jokingly called my dogs) always outperformed these titled dogs every single time. When I say out performed, meaning my dogs would find more birds than theirs. However, mine were not even in the same ball park with the retrieving abilities and various obedience commands. I teach mine to come when called every time, stop when I say whoa, and to heel. That's about it.
I sure enjoy our time in the field with them, and admire their dogs, and they respectfully due to the same with mine. Of course we give each other grief on our respective dogs. I don't care who's pup it is, I can assure you we all got ready when one of them pointed. I run setters, they run shorthairs, they always tell me to shave my dog and dock his tail so he looks like a real dog.
Wind River
Well-known member
Criticize me, but never criticize my dog. Old Canadian proverb.
Weimdogman
Well-known member
It's interesting how your comprehension of my post is off.
carptom1
Well-known member
I have hunted with a lot of different dogs, breeds and people over the years. Titled Labs worth 10’s of thousands and half breeds that were accidents. I have had three really good meat dogs myself. Decent dogs from good lines that I did little training with and got them on birds. A couple years ago I hunted up in North Dakota with PTM and his friend from Montana. He had a couple backyard labs with him, that were awesome in the field. He had them trained decent and they hunted as good as any. I hunted a few years ago with a guy and his titled dog that was nearly worthless ( but he bragged it up hard). What I have learned is I under promise and over deliver.
dakotasj
Well-known member
Birdman2 said ---
All Brits.
Starting out 45 years ago I had no experience training bird dogs. Deer hunting buddies did, and I got the disease.
My dogs -
1. Duchess 1978 - Only hunted ruff grouse in mountains of East TN. Late 70s. She attacked a skunk one time. Not a pleasant drive back home in my Chevy II. She taught me how little I knew about bird dogs.
2. Lady 1994 - pointed and retrieved my first KS pheasant in a blizzard maybe 1992.
3. Dakota (1) 1997 - Big dog out of Georgia. Taught me a lot about SD roosters.
4. Bandit 1999 - out of Dakota (1) and Lady -- A decade of pheasants and ruff grouse. Nothing flashy, just solid dependable and always ready.
5. Dakota (2) 2006 - Daughter of Nolan's Last Bullet, best instinctive dog I've ever had, extremely athletic, made it look so easy. Lost her way to early.
6. Frankie 2004 - Bought her on a whim, probably the least I ever paid of a puppy. Bloodline was not impressive, smallest Brittany I've had, but she was solid and had lots of natural style.
7. Bear 2008 - out of Dakota (2) and Bandit, never outstanding, just solid. Best memory was in SD hunting some grass next to a picked corn field just dirt. We knocked a rooster down that hit hard on the dirt, looked very dead. Continued hunting the rest of the grass to the corn field, crossed the fence and expected to just pick the rooster up, but could not find him. Started looking back in the grass, then could not find Bear. Called, whistled - no Bear. We were more focused looking in the cover, not the corn which was just dirt. Happened to walk past a fresh gopher hole and there was Bear own the hole. His back end was about a foot below ground level. He started backing out of the hole with a dead rooster. Did not get a picture.
8. Kate 2013 - Daughter of Grand Junction Jake. She is still hunting great, but understandably slowing down. She is my grandsons' favorite.
9. Rocky 2013 - Son of Peter Gunn. Hunts much better alone.
10. Reece 2017 - Kate and Rocky pup. Will be my last. Sadly, in some ways at my age, he is by far the best I have ever had, well except for maybe retrieving. He retrieves halfway back then waits on me to come to him to get the bird. 20 years ago, that would have been a problem, not a problem now. I'm headed in that direction anyway.
Best Dog? Thats not a fair question. Good question, but not fair.
To me it's more about the heart and the time spent in SD together.
I have had more "best" bird dogs than I deserve.
Just as they deserved more time hunting and a better shooting partner.
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LC Smith
Well-known member
My apologies... I quoted the wrong post to begin with... I also was trying to focus on what the judge had said.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
I had a granddaughter out of Nolan's Last Bullet. She is the Britt in my Avatar. She did it all. Field goose hunts, ducks over water, and upland.
At 5 months we attended a little training session at 4 Brooks with a Britt club. She found birds where they said none were and where much more seasoned dogs had passed by.
Her ability to locate birds from an amazing distance (maybe too far) and point was simply amazing. We found and killed birds together from 10 months to 12 years old. I held her in my arms when the vet put her down a few years back.
At 5 months we attended a little training session at 4 Brooks with a Britt club. She found birds where they said none were and where much more seasoned dogs had passed by.
Her ability to locate birds from an amazing distance (maybe too far) and point was simply amazing. We found and killed birds together from 10 months to 12 years old. I held her in my arms when the vet put her down a few years back.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
My current lead dog is a fantastic Brittany (first male since my first Britt). He is a solid bird dog. He is strong - is muscle mass in impressive. He tells me that he knows that dogs that preceded him got to hunt longer and more often.
He is also easily the calmest dog that has lived in my home.
He is also easily the calmest dog that has lived in my home.
My current little lab female is my best, so far. She’s an HRCH and could have been/be a grand dog but I don’t have the time nor money to run her in a grand. She’s great in the upland and obviously excels in the marsh. The level of control you have over a dog like that over a meat dog that’s been “trained” through experience only is night and day. Sit to flush so they can mark the birds down when multiple birds are shot is almost mandatory for them to mark. The ability to run a 200 plus yard blind with lots of factors and terrain to negotiate is priceless. An absolute pleasure to hunt over.
With that being said my young male who turns 2 this weekend is running grand/master type set ups now and he’s going to be an absolute monster. But he’s not going that direction. He won’t run a hunt test until one of two things happen. He washes out in the field trial game or we run outa of the land available and training experience to take him further than QAA. He’s out of NFC FC Just Floyd and is a spitting image of Floyd only in a black color.
With that being said my young male who turns 2 this weekend is running grand/master type set ups now and he’s going to be an absolute monster. But he’s not going that direction. He won’t run a hunt test until one of two things happen. He washes out in the field trial game or we run outa of the land available and training experience to take him further than QAA. He’s out of NFC FC Just Floyd and is a spitting image of Floyd only in a black color.
LC Smith
Well-known member
The field trial game is one I’ve never run. I have seen some remarkable dogs with FC titles and lineage.
agraham20
Active member
I understand where some come from with the meat dog vs test dog concept. I play both games and my thoughts are that a good test dog and a good meat dog are very similar. They both normally share some of the the same traits, such as drive, intelligence, train ability, heart…
I think that dogs that share those traits can be good in either arena.
Now the dogs that are great are rare, they have something that tends to set them apart. Some specific natural ability or traits that can’t be trained into them. They are the dogs that stand out, they make you go wow. Your amazing bird dog that finds the bird no other dog can, or comes up with that amazing retrieve, or your MH dog, or Grand dog, FC AFC etc…
Some dogs traits are more geared towards different arenas, I’ve seen hunting dogs that were just good enough for the hunter running them, and I’ve seen dogs that could do everything.
With a good dog the only difference between a good test dog and a good meat dog is the training the handler gives them.
I think that dogs that share those traits can be good in either arena.
Now the dogs that are great are rare, they have something that tends to set them apart. Some specific natural ability or traits that can’t be trained into them. They are the dogs that stand out, they make you go wow. Your amazing bird dog that finds the bird no other dog can, or comes up with that amazing retrieve, or your MH dog, or Grand dog, FC AFC etc…
Some dogs traits are more geared towards different arenas, I’ve seen hunting dogs that were just good enough for the hunter running them, and I’ve seen dogs that could do everything.
With a good dog the only difference between a good test dog and a good meat dog is the training the handler gives them.
Prophet’s Pop
New member
This!!!!!!!!!
Lointer man
Active member
Jimmy my ol black lab was as good as it gets, natural waterfowl dog and learned to be a decent upland pup as well, Charlie my new pointer is working out quite well.. appreciate all the good stories
Lointer man
Lointer man
Goosemaster
Well-known member
Imo the labrador retriever is the best bird dog in the world.Versatility,drive, family dog, everything.