Are Pheasants Toast?

The bottom line on my OPINION(at this point) on pen-reared birds released into the wild is as follows:

1) They're absolutely helpless and can't stay out of harms way.

2) Don't know how to feed themselves.

3) Can't adequately reproduce.

4) Can't take care of their chicks if they do happen to lay an egg.

Shoot'em up quick - they will soon be dust in the wind!
 
Taken as a whole, I think pen-raised pheasants can supply an answer but never a complete substitution for wild-er, better-er peasants.
I doubt many differ with that idea.

Quality, ime, varies and many released pheasants can indeed stay out of harm's way for a good while, at times...ie, not helpless.
I have shot them with crops full of local food and others skinny and wasting away.
What is often unknown is the health of the bird at release and that can turn on the conditions under which they were raised, handled and, especially, released into.
Eggs and brooding involves far more than a male and a female...but, success is not high on the expected list in many released areas, I would agree.

The answer I think pen-raised birds offer is an opportunity for a level of bird contact between dog and, often young, hunter that may not exist otherwise.
Dogs are unlikely to fret much over wild vs. pen-raised and neither would many 14 year-olds.
Age and experience can make us all a mite jaded by the less than perfect or the less than "wild."
Sometimes, it can be liberating and refreshing to recapture 14 or 12 or whenever the wonder of it all was simply enough.
Hunting or fishing.
 
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RK Special K said:
The bottom line on my OPINION(at this point) on pen-reared birds released into the wild is as follows:

1) They're absolutely helpless and can't stay out of harms way.

2) Don't know how to feed themselves.

3) Can't adequately reproduce.

4) Can't take care of their chicks if they do happen to lay an egg.

Shoot'em up quick - they will soon be dust in the wind!
Click to expand...

sorry, don't agree with all your opinions.....there are always exceptions, always.
 
If the exceptions are that a few pen-reared birds survive a lot longer than the vast majority, I would agree.

If the exception is that if great habitat is STOCKED with pen-reared birds and on rare occassions these birds actually get traction and begin a wild bird population, I would not agree.

PF biologists insist that they have no evidence of these kind of "exceptions". Transplanting wild birds does work. Stocking pen-reared birds does not work.

I'm still on a mission to find evidence that would be contrary to my opinion. Bring it on!
 
Well said Old Dublin! I was fortunate to have an abundance of wild birds to learn on when I was 14, but not so many places like that for today's youth.
 
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RK Special K said:
If the exceptions are that a few pen-reared birds survive a lot longer than the vast majority, I would agree.

If the exception is that if great habitat is STOCKED with pen-reared birds and on rare occassions these birds actually get traction and begin a wild bird population, I would not agree.

PF biologists insist that they have no evidence of these kind of "exceptions". Transplanting wild birds does work. Stocking pen-reared birds does not work.

I'm still on a mission to find evidence that would be contrary to my opinion. Bring it on!
Click to expand...

With the exception of Oregon and possibly Washington pretty much all other states with wild pheasants used state run game farms to raise pheasants for release to establish their wild birds. No one is arguing that pen raised pheasants are the best way to go about it but lets be honest, the regular land owner has NO WAY of legally obtaining wild trapped pheasants for release.

There used to be a large wild pheasant population in my county but have been completely extinct now for probably 20 years or so. I have reached out to 3 farmers on the west side who would like to see wild pheasants come back on their river land and have been making habitat improvements on their land but we have no way of getting wild trapped birds for released. There is a wild population no more than 5 miles as the crow flies on a NWR but no interest from our DFG to relocate any birds. The only other way is for me to reach ougt to more farmers who have land along the connecting slough to get a travel corridor to connect these "island habitats".

What is a guy to do? Give up?
 
RK Special K said:
The bottom line on my OPINION(at this point) on pen-reared birds released into the wild is as follows:

1) They're absolutely helpless and can't stay out of harms way.

2) Don't know how to feed themselves.

3) Can't adequately reproduce.

4) Can't take care of their chicks if they do happen to lay an egg.

Shoot'em up quick - they will soon be dust in the wind!
Click to expand...

In general you are correct. How many wild birds do we see with Melanistic Mutant traits? I've never seen one. This is a great example how dumb-down pen-birds do not survive and reproduce in the wild here in the U.S. (In the UK they do breed in the wild).

Scroll down to post #3 for a couple pics of crosses. http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/505546/ringneck-x-melanistic-what-can-i-expect

Take a look at this video of mine. NOT ONE OF THESE BIRDS WILL SURVIVE OR REPRODUCE IN THE WILD FOR VERY LONG. Notice how tame they are. http://youtu.be/csXEsb6h--A

On the other hand (I don't have a video yet. Sorry) I witnessed some pen birds that had very little interaction with humans and contained wild traits in their gene pool. As soon as I was in their sight they went absolutely crazy.

Such birds have a better chance of survival and reproduction in the wild and indeed do.

Pen birds can survive and reproduce successfully in the wild. This is particularly the case with a mild winter and a temperate spring we've witnessed this past year.
 
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Some of you guys should Study up on North American Pheasants.
Montana, SD and ND nearly all Ring Necks populations were started from pen raised and released pheasants. Very little trap and relocate was done and when it was done ALWAYS the trapped and released birds were descendants from pen raised birds. Yep ALWAYS.

Lots of reasons why trapping pheasants and relocating failed.

Not cost effective.
Damaged, injured, and dead.
Trapped wild pheasants don't stop fighting to get away.
The NO 1 reason though it simply wasn't necessary.

What you have to remember is. An area where wild pheasant populations have disappeared, there is a reason. And until it's fixed you won't have success with releasing pen raised birds.
 
I have nothing against pen-reared birds. They do serve a good purpose.

But can they be used to help or establish a wild bird population? The opinion of pheasant biologists much more knowledgable about the subject than me insist that they cannot.

I'm so curious about this subject now that I'm going to continue efforts to find the truth about the origins of our Great American Wild Pheasants.

I'm not a believer in "strains of more wild-like" pen-reared birds that supposedly have a better chance of establishment. If these birds are "kept out of the loop" in a pen, they are not necessarily stupid, but are just completely unprepared for their next life in the wild. They have been domesticated beyond reasonable hope.
 
Golf, Darts, Shuffleboard, Shooting pen-reared birds. All generally in the same category - lots of fun, no doubt!

Here's my best case in point:

PELEE ISLAND in Lake Erie: They have huge pen-rearing bird operations there. Each November they release many thousands(20-30,000) of both hens and roosters into very decent habitat. They have done this for many, many years. "Hunters" come in for 2 or 3 weekends to have a blast. They certainly don't shoot them all. I was told by the farmer, that I stayed with when I did the shoot in 1988, that they have no pheasants on the Island come the following spring, absolutely 0. No wild or pen-reared - gone, disappeared.

If STOCKING worked, you would think that after all these years of releasing birds, some would get traction and there would at least be a small number of wild birds around - not so!

In the 20's, 30's and 40's they had some wild birds there - long since gone. The farmer said that they could again establish wild birds but not enough to support this big shoot'em up, money-making ordeal they have each year. So they don't bother.
 
Pelee....having partaken of the Great Onslaught there a time or two, the island is poor habitat, food or cover.
While there are some crops that get plucked and shorn to a gnat's whisker, there are also vineyards and brush more than anything resembling good, viable pheasant habitat to help dem birds....farming has changed there over the decades(certainly from the 20s:)...likely were no strippers brought in during the 20s either, times they are a-changin'), yes change on Pelee as in many locales.
In the rush to downgrade the poor pen-raised pheasant angle RK, methinks you overstep in using Pelee as an example.

Pelee also is more about pheasant shooting;), tho in the brushy areas there can be some hunting involved....and the dogs do grin a good bit.
Plus, there is a swell Tim Hortons on the way to the ferry, always a plus.....flying in is fine but one can get marooned by dat Erie fog.

Four!
 
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OldDublin, you probably have a good point there. Been a long time since I was there. I don't remember it as inhospitable to pheasants but "very decent habitat" might be a bit of a stretch. Certainly not an ideal example. But it would seem to support birds as good as some of our marginal habitat here in Michigan - which isn't saying too much.

Isn't Pelee a real gas! In the first hour or two, my buddy and I were practically wading in them. Kinda tight quarters around there too. Lead rain is always in the forecast.

If I rememder right, is it 3 days - Fr, Sat, Sun, 10 birds per day? Something like that.
 
Not sure I would use the word inhospitable, that seems a mite too much like the moon, but certainly I would not consider it good or equal to the better or poorest pheasant land of the trolls, of which you speak.

Pelee can be both a good and a bad experience.
I would liken it slightly to skirmish line early season hunting in the plains re the group mentality....and, my take, a lot of non-hunters, non-dog guys shoot on Pelee.
I'm not much of a group mentality guy, can easily fill up on idiots driving the roads too fast or shooting willy-nilly or some of the other high school hijinks....and, dogs can get an overdose of stimulation leading to issues.
Off by one's self however, one can make an interesting hunt and offer pups some good experience....if all is controlled, and it can be.
Coming out of the brush onto a beach, with miles of water in the distance is a neat deal.
I'm glad I was offered the chances to attend, as experiences help to build a Life....but, I prefer to leave the birds to others now.

I believe 3 releases is correct and I would expect some clean-up hunts might be available, privately.
My guess is also that the locals help ensure that the birds face a tough go.;)
Vineyards workers appeared to trend toward migrants, thirsty migrants.
 
RK Special K, after reading several of your post I can see that you authentically care about the welfare of wild pheasants. To learn about pheasant history look at these two old books, you can order them at Amazon.com:
1. Pheasants in North America, 1956 by Durward L. Allen. Good information on stocking page 255.
2. The Ring-Necked Pheasant and its Management in North America, 1945 by W. L. McAtee

Evidence of the successful establishment of a wild and reproducing pheasant population from wilder and more predator alert pen-raised pheasants can be seen in the article below about all the hard work that went into getting wild pheasants starter in Texas:

http://amarillo.com/stories/120201/whe_legionsofspo.shtml

The Manchurian ringneck pheasants and the White-Winged pheasant (Bianchi Pheasant) crossed to produce a wild and alert ringneck pheasant in the Lubbock area the Asian blackneck pheasant mentioned in the article is a Strauchi (Sichuan) pheasant, to see the fruits of the 1964 to 1972 hard work, see second to last post below:
http://archery.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=387809

Those wilder pheasants pen-raised pheasants were released 40 years ago (and yes initial mortality was high) and now there are hard flying wild pheasants all over the area.
 
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I know I've brought this up 100 times or more, so forgive me.:)

In SD I've shot wild birds (since 2005) with white patches below their wattles. This is a sign that the Manchurian pheasants that have been released up there have indeed reproduced successfully.

Here's a photo of a young "pure" manchurian from Macfarlane game farm. Notice the small white patch at the back of his wattle.
picture.php


I have shot pheasants here in Illinois that still carry the Sichuan traits (Strauchi) from their release in the 80's/90's. They too reproduced in the wild.

Take a look at this bird from SD in 2007. 3 year old wild rooster. Looks as if he possibly contains Sichuan/Strauchi traits. If so, this is the result of releasing pen reared birds with wild traits.

picture.php


On one of our threads, FC stated he had one of his pen reared hens running around with a clutch of chicks. From what I remember he has Manchurian/cross pheasants.:confused: (Maybe I'm wrong)

I have a client who released some pen-reared birds last fall. Some made it through the mild winter and had a nice clutch of chicks. How many chicks will survive is a different matter of course. But, the fact is pen birds can and do survive in the wild. percentages vary, and are low, but the fact is the more of a "wild" gene pool the better off they are.
 
mnmthunting said:
Some of you guys should Study up on North American Pheasants.
Montana, SD and ND nearly all Ring Necks populations were started from pen raised and released pheasants. Very little trap and relocate was done and when it was done ALWAYS the trapped and released birds were descendants from pen raised birds. Yep ALWAYS.

Lots of reasons why trapping pheasants and relocating failed.

Not cost effective.
Damaged, injured, and dead.
Trapped wild pheasants don't stop fighting to get away.
The NO 1 reason though it simply wasn't necessary.

What you have to remember is. An area where wild pheasant populations have disappeared, there is a reason. And until it's fixed you won't have success with releasing pen raised birds.
Click to expand...

Yes, your correct, there are losses do to overly panicked birds but once they are covered they calm down (in general) and can be transported cross-country with good survival rates.

Let's consider the area that had birds, lost the habitat, resulting in a loss in birds, then habitat was re-installed. Take a look at the PA forum. Wild birds from SD were trapped, transported, and released in PA. As of now, all things "pheasant" are looking up where those birds were released a few years back. :)
 
Preston1, thank you for information. Yes, dog-gone-it, I'm just trying to get to bottom of this whole story.

I don't know if PF biologists or ND and SD biologists have an angle they have to promote but when they give talks and you ask them questions about it - they kinda roll their eyes as if to say "Do we really have to cover this again, NO, pen-reared birds are a waist of time if you are trying to help wild bird numbers".

I saw some videos on some of those PA releases of wild SD live-trapped birds. Does anybody know how they are doing?

Reading all the above responses, I am at this point:

I can believe that a VERY few pen-reared birds could beat the rap, mate and have some VERY minor contribution to an already healthy, existing wild bird population.

BUT if starting from scratch or like PA(very low #'s), I would not have much faith in releasing pen-reared birds. I would have LOTS of faith in TRANSPLANTING wild birds from good 'ol SD. Actually, I would use birds from NW ND. They have a lot more spunk up there - really, they do! Ok......they don't.
 
RK Special K said:
I saw some videos on some of those PA releases of wild SD live-trapped birds. Does anybody know how they are doing?
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The last I heard those birds were doing very well and #'s are rising RK. :cheers:

Maybe Bauerline and FLDBRED can way in on the latest. They've been on top of what's been happening out that way.;)

P.S.--I think your "point" you've mentioned in your last post is accurate. It didn't take very long to reach that observation did it. lol
 
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