A few words from Pheasants Forever

in many areas wear there was once forest of all ages that held grouse there is now nothing but corn fields soy beans & old mature timber wear left for deer hunters & there QDMA practices & thus i assume that hurts the ruffed grouse in many of these areas back east???

ive hunted turkey in MN WI & MT wear ruffed grouse were around & it held no effect on there breeding or well being yes if you dont really have enough quality ruffed grouse habitat or brooding habitat to start with if you bump a grouse out of the area it may be harmful to them but its not the turkey hunters fault there is not enough ruffed grouse habitat in a give n state or region there has got to be some middle ground wear the deer grouse turkey pheasant woodcock ETC. all mix

baiting deer dose suck for so many reasons now i have another not to like it they attract grouse & turkey eaters ive seen in TX they fence them off maybe that helps keep the broods safer???
 
BBD, yes.

I did not expect the Tenn. boys to join RGS...I don't belong any longer myownself.
I have chosen other groups that have a wider focus than banquet tables....while they have done some good things and thought out-of-the-box occasionally, don't get me started on the RGS. :)
I did want the Tenn. boys to hear comments relating to what their focus delivers. Then, as I said, I wished them luck and meant it....they seemed like nice fellas.
I had an opportunity that may have meant nothing to anyone but me...but, one will have that.
"Big steps and little 'uns" as James Herriot wrote.

I do agree....too many birdhunters do not join groups that are working for them and too many do not think past their own front sight.
They look for the cream rather than the churn handle.
I simply believe it is wise to look in other than one direction....and I do not like guilt or duty trips.
 
small munsterlander owner said:
in many areas wear there was once forest of all ages that held grouse there is now nothing but corn fields soy beans & old mature timber wear left for deer hunters & there QDMA practices & thus i assume that hurts the ruffed grouse in many of these areas back east???...
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Depends...farm reversions aging out is the main issue in many areas rather than loss of early successional to cropland.
The national forest here is basically old farms.
Early successional % of NF acreage was about 3% a number of years ago with 18-25% healthy for a forest.
However, if agreed to management plans, on state or federal land, are implemented then the obstructionist lawsuits begin to fly from the likes of the SELC....southern environmental law center.
For their part, the DNRs often do not have the money or will to fight the lawsuits so...old growth(even though of 2nd and 3rd growth from clearcuts) is the call and the ruffed grouse loses.
Still, Ohio with it's paper mill that needs fed has more and better cover than many believe....there are other issues of concern aside from deer. Turkeys may be responsible for a weakening of the grouse through a virus...weakening, not killing. West Nile may likewise weaken and not kill.
Many issues....some though, as I say, could be impacted positively if we wanted to put forth the effort and lucre.

Be nice if we could get the coyotes to eat the nest predators but the deer hunters work hard to garrote the coyotes for killing "their" deer...deer and turkey hunters indeed are to blame to a degree....from feeding to direct impact.
They simply do not deserve 100% of the blame.
At one time I did have hope for Biomass projects but the Marcellus/Utica Plays have nipped that interest in the early successional bud.
Actually, in many ways re ruffed grouse, I'm glad to be 61.
I saw what this state had at one time and it easily rivaled, or came close :) to the UGLs of today.
 
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sorry RGS did not help your area & only was focused on banquet tables but thats far far from all they do here in MN wear we have more ruffed grouse then any other state...

they help maintain & create hunter walker trails used by hunters both upland deer bear ETC. they also plant clovers on them trails & gate the areas for only foot traffic...

they also have donated time & $$$ to brush hog clearings for both ruffed grouse & sharptails here in MN & WI that i know of i think MI as well any way id rather be apart of them then not at least while im living here in MN

i would say that being a member to the NAGP is a little better & helps many species of grouse all at the same time...

i dread the direction the pheasant is heading now days so i would hope that many would join PF who are not members already & try to point the direction of the wild pheasant & its habitat in only 1 direction betterment for there future...

i do feel that you are the only person on this thread that feels that asking for a person to be part of PF or any other hunter organization if they are to hunt on private lands managed for pheasant is a guilt or duty trip... if thats your view or feelings about the subject i think you are missing the point in many regards thornton...???
 
MN does not have ruffed grouse because of the RGS....MN has the RGS because of the ruffed grouse.
All about butter and bread...and, it should not be.

No doubt that I am alone in my opinion of a landowner requiring membership...not in PF but in any organization.
As I said at first, that can be a slippery slope.
But, I can not explain any more completely why than I have already done.
:eek:
No need to bore folks further.
 
simple point thornton RGS dose not hurt the ruffed grouse in MN either!!! only makes the habitat & other ruffed grouse needs better here... never said the RGS makes MNs ruffed grouse population... same with PF but it helps immensely...

same with PF it dose not hurt to join & thats simple to understand no slippery slope there...

u have ur views thats great i dont see a down side to joining a hunter organization for a species we love to hunt for a yr or life long...

it just seems like a odd fight to fight the organizations or not join that are around to help protect our fav game birds & big game animals
we love to hunt... that seems like a slippery slope to me???

hope you have a happy & safe hunting season thornton
 
thornton said:
MN does not have ruffed grouse because of the RGS....MN has the RGS because of the ruffed grouse.
All about butter and bread...and, it should not be.

No doubt that I am alone in my opinion of a landowner requiring membership...not in PF but in any organization.
As I said at first, that can be a slippery slope.
But, I can not explain any more completely why than I have already done.
:eek:
No need to bore folks further.
Click to expand...

You are not alone, maybe for different reasons. I have thought for a long time that money spent on lobbyists and lawyers was money that would have been better spent on habitat. Therefore I am not a member of DU or PF. In fact my little speech is aimed at the pheasant hunters that show up with DU stickers in their window. Not that I don't like ducks and I think DU does some good but when they and PF signed onto the sod saver provision and caused thousands of acres of native sod to be converted to farmland, we parted ways. I called them and tried to explain what the unintended cosequences were and the backlash of landowners against them, and they said they knew and did not care.
 
For clarification....my comments were becoming a mite muddled in interpretation. :)

small munsterlander owner said:
simple point thornton RGS dose not hurt the ruffed grouse in MN either!!! only makes the habitat & other ruffed grouse needs better here... never said the RGS makes MNs ruffed grouse population... same with PF but it helps immensely...
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If I lived in MN, I would very likely belong to the RGS....1+1=2.
I may not then have seen the ignoring, bad decisions and same old-same old thinking applied in other sections of the range.
One size with ruffed grouse does not fit all.
I might begin to question why the RGS did not use more of their solid influence when Leasing was considered and began on some Potlatch lands but with all the blessings of MN, I likely would just have gone hunting, as even Leasing is somewhat different in effect in MN.

small munsterlander owner said:
same with PF it dose not hurt to join & thats simple to understand no slippery slope there...
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It can be a very good idea open only to individual experiences and viewpoints.
The slope was when some landowner wishes the inquiring hunter to join a religious, political, Union support or Kats For Kids group.
Never say never...folks here said Corporate or even Private land would never see the Texas leasing Model applied in the Appalachians. Much here by RGS, for example, was taken for granted and assumed inviolate.

small munsterlander owner said:
u have ur views thats great i dont see a down side to joining a hunter organization for a species we love to hunt for a yr or life long...
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I'm glad for you.
In general, neither do I.
But, you have not seen what I have seen.

small munsterlander owner said:
it just seems like a odd fight to fight the organizations or not join that are around to help protect our fav game birds & big game animals
we love to hunt... that seems like a slippery slope to me???
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It seems odd to believe that any organization never makes a wrong step or uses an equation that does not work rangewide or misses a bet or even has a leadership that oversteps the bounds of correctness...a member should be wise enough to spot the deficits and mention them...light them up. That will allow any organization to be better and to better deliver on their stated goals. They don't...then choices remain.
That does not mean that everywhere any organization is a waste.
An organization may also have valid reasons why actions were not taken of which a member may be unaware...one simply gets a drift of attitude when faced with some responses.
The RGS attitude re the Federal Woodcock Stamp being too selfishly-driven for my taste. It was imperfect but...RGS was wrong.

small munsterlander owner said:
hope you have a happy & safe hunting season.
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Ditto to you and your dogs.
Hope that clears the waters a bit.
 
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As far as Ruffed grouse go, managing is a snap, clear cut about 20- 25% of the forest every year, seed clover along the trails. Let nature handle the rest. Leave some mature aspen or birches, a few cedars or pines for winter cover, and berry shrubbery, when you find it. Not unlike bobwhite quail, except quail need a heavy source of sparse grass or dirt, with over story. If your in propagation business, do it. I contribute to the ones who do! I do as I preach, with or without the conservation organizations. I will tell you this, I believe that a conversation with the director, will probably tell you, that any member, gets recognized in efforts to get attention from politico's. Who basically are the elephant in the room with money to make a substantial contribution. So to say "We have 1 million members who give us money to support conservation, says volumes to elected officials who will need financing to stay in office. Spread it around. If we had 40,000,000 members, we would set the farm policy! The NRA, has a lot to say about firearms legislations!
 
Literally have 2 dogs in this hunt, so here is my $.02 , I think Jim is on the right track mostly, except for the few who never heard of such groups and are bringing kids to hunt, might be good time to educate them. 2nd dog is Thorntons Grouse rant, I wish we had more solutions for the demise of the Grouse!
 
oldandnew said:
As far as Ruffed grouse go, managing is a snap, clear cut about 20- 25% of the forest every year, seed clover along the trails. Let nature handle the rest.
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There's a few areas I hunt up north where this was done (besides seeding with clover) and the grouse numbers increased nicely.:thumbsup:
 
SDJIM said:
I totally agree and I do hold some sway.

Starting this year the following will apply---anyone wanting to hunt on my land must be a member of a conservation org. such as PF, DU,QF or other. I don't think it's much to ask as I spend a lot more than that just to have a little CRP around for the wildlife. I'm a life member of PF and member of DU and the NRA. :thumbsup:
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Great idea! That is an absolute minimum. I'd make em pitch in on some habitat work too.
 
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