12 vs 20

S

Sapphire

New member
Being a very "part time" bird hunter for the last 25 yrs, I've used what I had on hand. And that was primarily a Browning auto 5, 2 3/4 inch gun. Did the job just fine. Then, in the last year when I got a new pup and decided I was going to chase birds a bit more, my dad handed down his old Mauser O/U. Also 12 ga 2 3/4 gun. This gun is fantastic, but for some reason I've got the hottsies to have a new gun, my gun. I had never even considered anything but a 12 ga. Shot a 20 plenty when I was younger and never had much issue with it, but always figured a 12 could do whatever a 20 could do, but better!

Then I ran into another friend trying to buy an O/U and he introduced me to a guy that is a big 20 ga fan. Very serious hunter and sees no need for a 12...and enjoys the lightweight of the 20...

Anyhow, I guess I'm looking for more opinions. Why does a 12 perform better for pheasant than a 20? Is it simply the extra shot being tossed out? I picked up a 20 ga Superposed the other day and was very pleased with the lightness and quickness compared to my Mauser 12 ga....

Thanks for any discussion! :cheers:
 
An interesting post...

I have a 20 and a 12; due to shoulder surgery and the loss of 50% of my right shoulder and the force of a 12, I decided to switch to a 20 ga. This was 10 years ago.

My shooting is sporting clays and pheasants. Last Saturday I shot sporty's with four others and placed second with a 33/50 - one higher was a 34.

All were using 12 ga guns - mine was the only 20 ga and I don't have the luxury of having different barrels to fire. Only one barrel - improved cyl.

Bottom line: your gun selection would depend on gun use: ducks? grouse? pheasants? s. clay's? trap? Shooting over a dog? Long shots vs medium? Answering some of these questions may help with gauge selection.

Jon
 
So, if longer range birds (pheasants) are going to be a target, the 12 would be beneficial? Is it more the amount of shot that you are getting out there to increase your pattern... or is it a "power" thing? Does the 12 drive a pellet through a bird better than a 20?

I will be hunting over a springer that I am going to keep in CONTROL... what is a good max range I'd want him quartering/ranging? 12-20 yards??
 
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Longer range with a 12 - yes, although one can use a 3", 20 ga shell and approximate the same power and pellets as a standard 12 ga., at least that's my take. And if you want more power, use a 3" magnum 20 ga..

I keep my Golden within (try) 20 yards. As he gets on scent he'll increase the range so I try and hold him back as much as possible and use the "eeeeze" command. He's developed into a great pointer, so he naturally slows. Some use the whoa command; I think this sounds too much like no, hence the eeeze. This dog is only 15 month's old - still in training!

Good luck.

Jon
 
Don't think I answered your questions about kill power...

The size of the pellet seems to dictate the kill effectiveness. Some hunters use #4 or 5 shot for pheasants. There are some trade offs: the lower the number of shell the fewer the pellets, hence not as many in the pattern or a possible reduced pattern.

If you are a very good shot, use 4 or 5's. I need all the help I can get and prefer 6's.

Also, be mindful there aren't as many pellets in a 20 GA shell as a 12ga shell. Am not sure this makes much of a difference if you are right on the bird. I don't take extra long shots at pheasants, but prefer to let them go and take closer shots.

There's a very good web site that goes into detail about this subject: Shotgun Report.

Jon
 
Besides maybe for geese or decoy shy ducks I don't see anything that a 12 does better than a 20. I also don't see the need for 3" 20ga mags, their pattern and shot string are usually poor.

These were all taken with 20ga 1oz loads and I wouldn't have had a problem with taking them with 7/8oz loads either in front of my springers.

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I can think of a few days this year that the full 1 3/8 ounce loads of 4's made the difference between killing something and watching birds fly. Sometimes there is no substitute for power. With that said I have and use both 12 and 20 gauge guns. If I was going to buy one gun for all it would be a 12 no debate in my mind at all.
 
Sapphire said:
So, if longer range birds (pheasants) are going to be a target, the 12 would be beneficial? Is it more the amount of shot that you are getting out there to increase your pattern... or is it a "power" thing? Does the 12 drive a pellet through a bird better than a 20?

I will be hunting over a springer that I am going to keep in CONTROL... what is a good max range I'd want him quartering/ranging? 12-20 yards??
Click to expand...

I'll add my two cents in. At shorter ranges it should not make a difference 12 or 20 unless you prefer a heavier/lighter gun. Some people don't care for a real light gun as it can have a tendency to stop your swing if your not conscious of it. Others don't like the extra weight and feel like their dragging an anchor by days end.

At longer ranges a 12 gives you a sweeter pattern, as you stated more shot in the air and a better chance of hitting what your shooting at, it has nothing to do with power. Even with more shot however, you still have to put the gun in the right spot. Something else to ponder about the 12 is ammo selection. The 12 has a much wider selection of ammo which you can more readily find a bit easier.

If you like the versatility of a 12 but also like the idea the light weight of a 20, there are number of 12 ga brands/models to choose from whether O/U or auto loader that weigh in less than 7 lbs and are very comfortable to carry.

Lastly, it all comes down to personal preference as does most hunting gear. Nothing wrong with a 20, especially if you already own a 12.

I'll leave the ranging question of a Springer to the flusher guys. Maybe FCSpringer will chime in on that one.
 
I had walked the better part of the day through cane,cattails,heavy marsh grass,willows,and shoulder high prairie grass. Couple roosters way out a few hours early and a hen or 2 pointed since. The sun was starting to get low and I thought that maybe the roosters that I kicked up out of range earlier would be back in their strip of marsh grass that is surrounded by cane, and willows. You see they like to roost there and it was getting later in the afternoon. I was deep in the marsh and this place was closer to my car. I got there with plenty of time to let the dogs work before dark. Right away the dogs were working birds. Pointing,creeping,relocating, borderline losing their minds. Wasn't long before they were pointing according to the astro, and I couldn't here busting cane, anymore, they were still and not to far away. I got to the boys were were standing rock solid shoulder to shoulder. As I got behind them and picked a deer trail to get through the impossible cover the end flushed at their noses. As we watched her fly a rooster exploded from the other side of the cane. He was flying around us to get deeper into the marsh. Still hadn't seen him but the cackle gave him away and I tracked him with my ears hoping my eyes could catch him in a window in the cover. I finally saw him on the edge of range (over 40 yards without a doubt) on the other side of a line of trees he was circling me sorta so he wasn't really getting farther out. I tracked him with my gun and snapped shot him through one small window in the willows. He was way out there and part of my pattern was taken by the trees. 12 gauge with a heavy load of 4's got the job done. Really believe that a lighter load would have not got the job done. The bird had very few pellets in him.

Sometimes a 12 gauge and heavy loads is needed to bring down birds. I think it depends a lot on the ease of finding birds where you plan to hunt and the type of cover you'll find them in.

Using english logic to decide what loads to use is odd. They don't hunt them the same as we do.
 
Much as I like the sport in upland hunting, and much as I LOVE to watch the dogs work a bird, I like to eat pheasants! :) Anything that boosts the odds (like more shot in a 12 shell) gets my vote.

As for the range on your springer...if you were here I'd buy you a cold one for saying you'll keep him in range. It's the biased flusher lover in me that hates watching some guys pointer working 200 yards away and busting birds. I hunt two golden retrievers and keep them only 10 to maybe 15 -18 yards out depending on the cover.
 
wisturkeyhunter said:
I had walked the better part of the day through cane,cattails,heavy marsh grass,willows,and shoulder high prairie grass. Couple roosters way out a few hours early and a hen or 2 pointed since. The sun was starting to get low and I thought that maybe the roosters that I kicked up out of range earlier would be back in their strip of marsh grass that is surrounded by cane, and willows. You see they like to roost there and it was getting later in the afternoon. I was deep in the marsh and this place was closer to my car. I got there with plenty of time to let the dogs work before dark. Right away the dogs were working birds. Pointing,creeping,relocating, borderline losing their minds. Wasn't long before they were pointing according to the astro, and I couldn't here busting cane, anymore, they were still and not to far away. I got to the boys were were standing rock solid shoulder to shoulder. As I got behind them and picked a deer trail to get through the impossible cover the end flushed at their noses. As we watched her fly a rooster exploded from the other side of the cane. He was flying around us to get deeper into the marsh. Still hadn't seen him but the cackle gave him away and I tracked him with my ears hoping my eyes could catch him in a window in the cover. I finally saw him on the edge of range (over 40 yards without a doubt) on the other side of a line of trees he was circling me sorta so he wasn't really getting farther out. I tracked him with my gun and snapped shot him through one small window in the willows. He was way out there and part of my pattern was taken by the trees. 12 gauge with a heavy load of 4's got the job done. Really believe that a lighter load would have not got the job done. The bird had very few pellets in him.

Sometimes a 12 gauge and heavy loads is needed to bring down birds. I think it depends a lot on the ease of finding birds where you plan to hunt and the type of cover you'll find them in.

Using english logic to decide what loads to use is odd. They don't hunt them the same as we do.
Click to expand...

Believe me when I say that finding wild birds in California is no small task. I know that it is more of a personal preference/ confidence issue as to which gauge you shoot.

Just so you know my brother took that hen turkey on a straight away shot through a window in cotton woods at about 35yds with a single 1oz load of 6 shot.

As to the English ways they do a lot of "rough" shooting (foot hunting) as well as driven shoots. I think the ranges that some of these driven birds are killed at would amaze even the biggest sceptic.
 
I can see I am going to have to just shoot them both a fair bit and see what I think. I sure enjoy the discussion though, thank you all. I have a 12 ga I really like to shoot and an old SXS 20 that I haven't shot in 20 years... I think I'll have to break her out this next season and see how it goes. Besides that, my daughter will be shooting an 870 youth 20... so the 20 WILL get some use next year.

I just cringe when a dog starts working out past 30 yards or so... just knowing something will flush out of range...and it usually does. I haven't hunted with pointers though! (just a BIT)
 
If I had a 6 figure pile of money I'd buy one of their tri bore 20's choked skeet,light modified,improved modified.

If I had 2 piles I'd get their drilling that has a rifle barrel under the rib plus 2 sxs shotgun barrels.
 
According to the info in that link, wouldn't it be better to shoot targt loads instead of game loads? I haven't bought shells in a while, whats the price difference between the two?
 
Never tried shooting a 16 ga. I don't see many shells for sale in a 16 ga. And 20 ga shells are a bit limited, except at Cabala's.

Yesterday I used 7.5 shell in my 20 ga, on rather large hen pheasants. I didn't get a clean kill on a few of the birds; nice to have a dog to help me out with cripples!

I think I get a better pattern with 7.5's but not as hard a kill...probably poor shooting, not the shell!!
 
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