English Pointers

[B.Kossum]

I just mentioned on another thread that I found some pretty well-bred EP's for a good price. I was wondering if anyone would mind giving their opinion of the breed or posting some links about them. What are some of their pros and cons? The guy I talked to said his females ran small to medium in size, but I am worried about them being too big for my tastes. Any input and links would be greatly appreciated.

Brian

 

[cockerfan]

I have only hunted behind 5 or 6 EPs, but they were machines designed to cover ground. Way too high strung to be pets, but they could all sure move. They don't seem to be personable and affectionate like most hunting breeds though. I am sure there are exceptions, but that has been my experience.

 

[B.Kossum]

Yea, that kinda describes exactly what I'm NOT looking for. I sure like how they look though. Still would love to hear more opinions.f

 

[Jeremy1]

I have only hunted behind 5 or 6 EPs, but they were machines designed to cover ground. Way too high strung to be pets, but they could all sure move. They don't seem to be personable and affectionate like most hunting breeds though. I am sure there are exceptions, but that has been my experience.

+1


If I hunted SW or SE Quail, I would own a pointer.
But I dont.

I prefer the Continentals.

I require versatility from blood tracking to sitting quietly in duck blinds to tracking and retrieving everything shot, naturally.

I respect the ability of pointers on the plains but theyre not a good match for what I do.

Some if trained, can be more personable than others if handled properly and some lines will be good foot hunters, better than the trial lines.

 

[beaglebob1]

mine are loving EPs. stay in the house at times and NPs. Easy to train and handle.
I have EPS and GSP and I really see no BIG difference in there actions.
I think any well bred pointer with the proper training and handling will work just fine..:thumbsup::cheers:

 

[oldandnew]

Thoughts on years of owning English Pointers. Lives to hunt. Hunting never say die machine willing and able to cover as much ground as necessary to find birds. Come in all sizes from 40#s to nearly 90#. Size doesn't make any difference in birdability. Some are excellent retrievers, most will at least find dead birds. Most trial bred dogs, do not run so big as to scare anybody, and most adjust their range to field conditions and how you customarily hunt. Best relationship with the hunter, is an owner who hunts often, goes at it hardcore, doesn't need a dog that will fawn all over him, handles with a minimum of fuss, the dog hunts, you follow the dog, your job is to keep track of the dog, and shoot what the dog finds. Be aware EP's keep score and will hunt in front of the guy who reliably shoots the birds, whether it's the dogs owner or not. You are an equal partner with an EP, if you need a dog that you can handle constantly in field, you'll find the process frustrating because EP breeding encourages independence in search. All these are generalities, I have had pointers that were as cuddly as a lap dog, and handled like a dream. I have had Pointers, Britts, Shorthairs, who hunted the next section over, spurned any handling, weren't interested in any bird not capable of flight,disdained human interaction, and usually managed to find the truck about dark, which is the last place I saw them in the morning. So my advice is forget breed, and pick an individual, who's parents and grandparents had the traits you are looking for, with size a qualifier as well.

 

[beaglebob1]

Thoughts on years of owning English Pointers. Lives to hunt. Hunting never say die machine willing and able to cover as much ground as necessary to find birds. Come in all sizes from 40#s to nearly 90#. Size doesn't make any difference in birdability. Some are excellent retrievers, most will at least find dead birds. Most trial bred dogs, do not run so big as to scare anybody, and most adjust their range to field conditions and how you customarily hunt. Best relationship with the hunter, is an owner who hunts often, goes at it hardcore, doesn't need a dog that will fawn all over him, handles with a minimum of fuss, the dog hunts, you follow the dog, your job is to keep track of the dog, and shoot what the dog finds. Be aware EP's keep score and will hunt in front of the guy who reliably shoots the birds, whether it's the dogs owner or not. You are an equal partner with an EP, if you need a dog that you can handle constantly in field, you'll find the process frustrating because EP breeding encourages independence in search. All these are generalities, I have had pointers that were as cuddly as a lap dog, and handled like a dream. I have had Pointers, Britts, Shorthairs, who hunted the next section over, spurned any handling, weren't interested in any bird not capable of flight,disdained human interaction, and usually managed to find the truck about dark, which is the last place I saw them in the morning. So my advice is forget breed, and pick an individual, who's parents and grandparents had the traits you are looking for, with size a qualifier as well.

very well said sir:thumbsup::cheers:

 

[goldeneye]

I just mentioned on another thread that I found some pretty well-bred EP's for a good price. I was wondering if anyone would mind giving their opinion of the breed or posting some links about them. What are some of their pros and cons? The guy I talked to said his females ran small to medium in size, but I am worried about them being too big for my tastes. Any input and links would be greatly appreciated.

Brian

What is well bred? You got some names?
If your worried about how far your dog ranges run them in heavy cover only as pups then they learn to stay closer. I hunt my (Elhew) EP with GSP's the range is about the same.
My dog loves the kids is a lap dog in the house he has retrieved birds from the water. The only negative thing for me is the thin skin the winters in MN can be hard on him.

 

[B.Kossum]

Nah, no names. I just know the parents hunt good. Heck, they don't even have papers lol. I've been around a fair share of hunting dogs, but none that do any field trialing or anything. I'm just the type of guy that if momma and daddy do what I want then I'd be interested in the pups. That don't mean they are gonna be good, but what does ya know lol.

 

[HUNTIN4FUN]

I think more than not people tend to key in on generalizations about a breed and stop there. I have seen many EPs handle like a dream and love the after the shot attention that many bird dogs recieve from a happy hunter. I have also seen the other side of the fence where the dog wants nothing more than to find birds and find birds it will do all day. The ranging is something that can be controlled with the right amount of training from the beginning. I have GSPs and both are totally different from one another even though they are a mother daughter tandem. I have one who loves to be the lead dog in the field and will not stop short of trying to find every bird before the other dogs with her. She is a hard charger and a big runner when the conditions warrant it. She has an extreme desire to find birds and point them but her drive on cripples lacks some. Not to say that she won't routinely track, find, and retrieve cripples but you can tell by her actions that she craves a truelly wild rooster that is operating at 100%. The other of my two is a big ranging dog as well but is a cripple tracking machine. To her the thrill of tracking and retrieving a downed bird is just as fun as finding them before the shot. Together they feed off each other and back each others weakness and make for a good team. None of this would be possible without the right amount of constant training and working on my part.

I have seen many EPs that were out of sight when the tailgate dropped and I have seen many others that would hunt hard all day right in shotgun range. In the hunting world and especially the hunting dog world you only get out of it what you put into it. Any dog can be a truelly great dog with the right amount of training and conditioning to what you want. Don't sell any breed short just because of generalization you may read on the internet or in magazines, do your homework and find a breeding that is more along the lines of what you want in a dog.(hunting style, personality, drive, and whatever else it is that you look for) In the end it is your job to get the dog to hunt the way you want it to and be the dog you want it to be. You have to remember that these dogs have been breed for bird hunting(some better than others) and bird hunting is exactly what they will do.

EPs will tend to be a bit more hard headed early on and tend to mature a bit later. I think some of this attributed to the fact that they are hardwired to hunt birds so well. As far as size unless you are limited to size of a dog by where you live I wouldn't worry to much about but as with all breeds the females tend to be smaller than the males but this is not always the case. In the end if you are looking for a dog that will hunt for you from sun up to sun down an EP is a great dog as with many other pointers that are well breed. Again do your homework and find a dog within the breed that is right for you. Good luck and happy hunting. Just my two cents from a guy who owns GSPs but has a soft spot for well trained EPs.

 

[oldandnew]

Pointers breeding places ALL the emphasis on search. Field trial dogs, ( traditional horseback shooting dogs and all-age dogs), are not expected or ask to retrieve. Been that way for over 130 years. They can learn the task and are generally up to it. I personally don't care if my dog delivers to hand or not, as long as they find it. I've lived long enough to learn that making absolute statements about any dog or breed of dogs is nonsense. Unlike other respondents I have lost birds, in 40 years, a hell of a lot of them. I have been in parties which lost them with every breed mentioned here and some not. I hate losing a bird, wish we had never fired. In general, I would put the continentals a rung up as far as retrieving, seem to be more dilligent, and interested. Focus no doubt a factor of the emphasis put into the activity, and by a people who valued every game animal. The English Pointer, was a product of a time when there was unimagined numbers, playing a game where a minimum of dozens of points and shots were the norm, loosing a few birds, was shrugged off by dog and hunter alike after a cursory search as part of the game. On the other hand, I have had one english pointer bring me a three bird limit of cripples on the second day of the season in Nebraska in the parking lot on a public area before I could load my gun, all live. As I say absolute statements beg for exception. In the Pointers defense, I will say that I personally have never seen one that was intrigued by fur, which I consider the most annoying trait of all. Call it " prey drive", " sharpness ", blood trailing or whatever you want, its nearly a sure thing among the continental dogs, because they are bred for it, and encouraged to do it, to this day. It's a hound trait, and it tends to favor a hard mouth, as well. It's the hound that makes them better pheasant dogs, they work foot scent, as well as body scent. Again, not all, but it remains the tendency. So given a preference, personally, I'd stick with an English Pointer, a body scenting dog which may force me to pickup my own bird, after the dog finds it. I may have to encourage search dead a little more, it's an exchange I'll make. To the alternative of settling for or fixing problems like I have encountered with the continentals, pointed rabbits, wild eyed deer pursuits, boogering cats, turtles farm animals,( sure to endear yourself to the local farmer), and slobbered, tooth marked quail. Yes I have dealt with all of that. Again, no absolutes, just the odds. So be offended, be amused, deny with a littany of the extolled virtues of individual continentals. Pay your money and take your chances. Meanwhile your shorthairs on point....oh wait he's backing the english pointer who's already there.

 

[-Wildcat-]

B.Kossum,

We're sorry this thread got steered in the wrong direction. I've deleted the posts that went South, so now we can actually discuss you getting a English Pointer. :thumbsup:

 

[B.Kossum]

That's alright Wildcat- appreciate it though. I went on and passed on the pointer pups I was looking at. Momma was just a little too big for my tastes (Daddy was too, but that goes without saying lol). They were some good lookin pups though. I appreciate all of the perspectives thrown out there. Seems like some folks have alot of negative things to say about the breed, but the ones who have them sure do love em.

Thanks to all.

 

[wesslpointer]

What is well bred? You got some names?
If your worried about how far your dog ranges run them in heavy cover only as pups then they learn to stay closer. I hunt my (Elhew) EP with GSP's the range is about the same.
My dog loves the kids is a lap dog in the house he has retrieved birds from the water. The only negative thing for me is the thin skin the winters in MN can be hard on him.

Goldeneye over the years ive owned A number of nice Elhew"s but your right they "hate" the cold !! that"s why I went to A pointer with A coat and "loves" the cold and wet weather.

 

[wesslpointer]

Pointers breeding places ALL the emphasis on search. Field trial dogs, ( traditional horseback shooting dogs and all-age dogs), are not expected or ask to retrieve. Been that way for over 130 years. They can learn the task and are generally up to it. I personally don't care if my dog delivers to hand or not, as long as they find it. I've lived long enough to learn that making absolute statements about any dog or breed of dogs is nonsense. Unlike other respondents I have lost birds, in 40 years, a hell of a lot of them. I have been in parties which lost them with every breed mentioned here and some not. I hate losing a bird, wish we had never fired. In general, I would put the continentals a rung up as far as retrieving, seem to be more dilligent, and interested. Focus no doubt a factor of the emphasis put into the activity, and by a people who valued every game animal. The English Pointer, was a product of a time when there was unimagined numbers, playing a game where a minimum of dozens of points and shots were the norm, loosing a few birds, was shrugged off by dog and hunter alike after a cursory search as part of the game. On the other hand, I have had one english pointer bring me a three bird limit of cripples on the second day of the season in Nebraska in the parking lot on a public area before I could load my gun, all live. As I say absolute statements beg for exception. In the Pointers defense, I will say that I personally have never seen one that was intrigued by fur, which I consider the most annoying trait of all. Call it " prey drive", " sharpness ", blood trailing or whatever you want, its nearly a sure thing among the continental dogs, because they are bred for it, and encouraged to do it, to this day. It's a hound trait, and it tends to favor a hard mouth, as well. It's the hound that makes them better pheasant dogs, they work foot scent, as well as body scent. Again, not all, but it remains the tendency. So given a preference, personally, I'd stick with an English Pointer, a body scenting dog which may force me to pickup my own bird, after the dog finds it. I may have to encourage search dead a little more, it's an exchange I'll make. To the alternative of settling for or fixing problems like I have encountered with the continentals, pointed rabbits, wild eyed deer pursuits, boogering cats, turtles farm animals,( sure to endear yourself to the local farmer), and slobbered, tooth marked quail. Yes I have dealt with all of that. Again, no absolutes, just the odds. So be offended, be amused, deny with a littany of the extolled virtues of individual continentals. Pay your money and take your chances. Meanwhile your shorthairs on point....oh wait he's backing the english pointer who's already there.

Out west our GSP probly have a little ep in them but they are great retrivers and hunt "head Hi" What do you feel about the low head "hound" type for the hunting of WILD pheasants?

 

[FCSpringer]

This thread was cleaned up a bit, with no intention to upset any one by a moderator. The problem was dealt with, and now there is some confusion with a few of the posts. Please continue viable discussion on English Pointers here. Thanks. A guy I know has one here and he likes him. He does not stick around the farm un attended, I have given him a ride home before. But does a nice job in the field, I could hunt with him for a day or two for something to do.:thumbsup:

 

[Kismet]

That's alright Wildcat- appreciate it though. I went on and passed on the pointer pups I was looking at. Momma was just a little too big for my tastes (Daddy was too, but that goes without saying lol). They were some good lookin pups though. I appreciate all of the perspectives thrown out there. Seems like some folks have alot of negative things to say about the breed, but the ones who have them sure do love em.

Thanks to all.

Hey B.,

From an old fart, dogs is dogs. Within breeds, the individuality and personality ( or should that be canine-ality?) can be all over the chart.

Closest I've come is hunting with Henry, a two year-old EP, a dog of divorce, handed off to a close hunting friend. Henry was amazing, burning with energy, an intensity that damned-near demanded portrait taking, and a pheasant sense that was marvelous. He didn't retrieve pheasants. But...he would take every sock in the house (one adult, two teen-age children) and carry them off to the couch.

In fairness, humans need socks more often than they need pheasants, so there may have been some logic there.

I've had GWPs, but as good as they were--and they were very good, none ever caused me to catch my breath as they held point the way Henry did. I can hold his image in my mind, even as I type this.


Good luck in your search.

 

[goldeneye]

From reading your other thread you stated you were going to raise Quail and you live in Mississippi?
IMO and I say IMO the EP would be the best dog for this they are made for the warm weather and quail hunting.
If you know people with pointing dogs I'm sure they would love to help you with any training you need and heck were here for you.
Maybe we need to help you abit. If I brought my EP down there and let you hunt behind him on some Quail will you take me Pig hunting


How could you say NO??? almost 2yrs old 47 lbs

 

[The_Edouard]

It seems as though size is the main concern so why not look at a breed that typically runs on the lighter side. I have French Britts one is 32 lbs and one is a small 47 lbs. They are light shedders and a joy in the house. One of them is cool calm and loves to cuddle yet hunts real good. The other is hard wired with more prey drive than he knows what to do with and tends to run a little bigger and tracks and retrieves without fail. Not trying to plug the breed just making a point that there are other breeds out there and you can always find a good pairing. You just need a good breeder that can pick the size and tempermant you are looking for. There is no doubt that EP's are great quail hunters but that doesnt mean other breeds can't be. I guarantee that after my dog got a nose full of quail for the first time he would do just fine on them. No matter what the breed start them out right with live birds at a fairly young age and then sit back and watch the majic unfold. Man I miss the puppy stage it is so much fun!

 

[B.Kossum]

From reading your other thread you stated you were going to raise Quail and you live in Mississippi?
IMO and I say IMO the EP would be the best dog for this they are made for the warm weather and quail hunting.
If you know people with pointing dogs I'm sure they would love to help you with any training you need and heck were here for you.
Maybe we need to help you abit. If I brought my EP down there and let you hunt behind him on some Quail will you take me Pig hunting


How could you say NO??? almost 2yrs old 47 lbs

Yea, no doubt that is a great looking dog. I have raised Coturnix for a while but just switched to Bobwhite for the opportunity to hunt them and maybe sell more. I've got a small batch of 30 hatching Tuesday. I wound up getting a Feist/Jack Russell mix for free- just couldn't afford a real bird dog that was small enough for me- and I plan on putting her on a bird or two when they get a week or so old.

Man, I'd love to take you hog hunting but I lost my spot a few years ago. I'm talking a real spot too-all low ground along the Mississippi River. Heck, that area is probably completely flooded right now- as a matter of fact I'm sure it is. You couldn't walk through the woods down there without hearing or smelling them. You had to get everything ready before letting the dogs out (instead of just pulling up with them in the back of the truck or what not) because they'd be on a pig within minutes or seconds every time. In some of the areas down here, we got more hogs than Texas ever did. It's not like that all over, but in certain spots. Sucks not being able to go anymore. My bulldog has been forced to settle for catching coons and possums the last few years lol.