12 0r 20

T

torch

New member
I'm getting closer to buying a new citori and now the question is 12 or 20 gauge? I had been thinking 12 but maybe 20 is enough...any thoughts?
 
Unless your going to be goose hunting a lot a 20ga will be more than enough gun for the uplands. I love my 20& 28ga and don't ever see myself using my 12 anytime soon.
 
I like both 20 & 12. A 20 will work fine for early season birds, but if you ever plan on hunting wild birds late in the season, leave the 20 at home and grab a 12. Nothing against the 20 at all, but 20's in the hands of less than "good" shoters end up crippling too many of those tough/hard-to-kill birds late in the year.

If you can only afford 1 buy a 12.
 
I would answer 20 regardless, but given that you're looking at Citoris, I would answer even more emphaticly, 20 gauge. A 12 ga Citori is something like a fence post in my hands, and a heavy one at that. YMMV. I do have a 20 ga Citori, and while I don't shoot it a lot, it is certainly a servicable gun.

I shoot 16 gauges exclusively in the uplands. Truthfully, mostly out of nostalgia. Long story, but it begins with my dad and a Sweet 16. I'm completely pot committed at this point - reloaders, components, guns, etc. But if I were starting over (especially in light of the looming nontox mandates), I'd grab a 20 and never look back. If I can't get it done with an ounce of lead at 1200 fps, it isn't worth doing.

Like most things in the US, we are marketed to with BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER until we actually start to believe it.
 
I have shot a 20 gauge for several years now. Like quail hound, I shot the sub-gauges 20-28. The 20 gauge is a very versatile gun if you give it a chance. There are a lot of one (1) ounce loads available for it at speeds from 1220FPS on up. The ones saying it can't do this or that, I would say they are using sub 1220FPS shells or the wrong chokes. It will do most anything a 12 ga will do only with 1/8 or 1/4 ounce of shot less. Yes that is all the difference in BB's you are talking about. Remember don't go for the cheap 1165FPS ammo. It does not kill the a 1220FPS will. That way I think you will be very happy with the 20 gauge........Bob
 
The 20's and even 28's are cool to carry around and will kill pheasants when used properly. However, after hunting wild birds through the end of December for MANY seasons, and witnessing too many cripples from "stylish" hunters using pop guns, I have learned (from experience) to go to a 12 with heavy loads for those tough late-season birds. The object is to get the birds in your vest!

Before you flame the messenger, I too use a Citori Classic Lightning 20 and Lightning Feather 16 for early season birds, and enjoy them. The problem is, once all of the dumb birds from that years hatch are in the freezer, you have to actually hunt smartly and use enough gun to kill the birds cleanly. The feathers get thicker and the ranges increase. A 20 shooting 1 oz of #5's at 1220-1250 simply does not have the same effective killing power as a 12 shooting 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 oz of 5's at 1300-1330. That's not the 20's fault, just the facts of ballistics.

Remember folks, replies are "free" opinions based on the poster's experiences.
 
CRP said:
The 20's and even 28's are cool to carry around and will kill pheasants when used properly. However, after hunting wild birds through the end of December for MANY seasons, and witnessing too many cripples from "stylish" hunters using pop guns, I have learned (from experience) to go to a 12 with heavy loads for those tough late-season birds. The object is to get the birds in your vest!

Before you flame the messenger, I too use a Citori Classic Lightning 20 and Lightning Feather 16 for early season birds, and enjoy them. The problem is, once all of the dumb birds from that years hatch are in the freezer, you have to actually hunt smartly and use enough gun to kill the birds cleanly. The feathers get thicker and the ranges increase. A 20 shooting 1 oz of #5's at 1220-1250 simply does not have the same effective killing power as a 12 shooting 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 oz of 5's at 1300-1330. That's not the 20's fault, just the facts of ballistics.

Remember folks, replies are "free" opinions based on the poster's experiences.
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ok- not flaming- "but pop guns" you need to go out with someone who can handle a 410
young stupid, old wise, early season, late season wild roosters- if you can handle a gun, don't take stupid shots, anything is good medicine- if one knows

ummmmmm you'd be fun to walk up with while a dog was on point on a wild rooster-
I'll carry my 20 with short barrels and light 8 shot
 
CRP said:
The feathers get thicker and the ranges increase. A 20 shooting 1 oz of #5's at 1220-1250 simply does not have the same effective killing power as a 12 shooting 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 oz of 5's at 1300-1330. That's not the 20's fault, just the facts of ballistics.

Remember folks, replies are "free" opinions based on the poster's experiences.
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Velocity is shed extremely fast. At 35 yards the difference between a 1200 fps load and a 1300 fps load is nonexistant. I will give you that the heavier pay load afforded by the 12 does add range to your pattern before it peaters out, that's obvious.

I'm not suggesting that the 20 will do everything the 12 will. It won't. 1 3/8 oz will obviously give you a longer range before the pattern becomes ineffective.

What I am suggesting is that it will do everything that needs doing in the uplands. And for me, that's killing birds inside of 40 yards - an HONEST 40 yards over an honest pointer. In those circumstances, a 12 ga offers no advantage. That is unless you're looking to combine a workout with your hunt.

If I was into waterfowling, turkey hunting, shooting wild flushes, and reaching out to 50 yards, I would choose the 12 ga.
 
My favorite is Beretta 686 blue onyx or Browning Cynergy featherlite20g, 3" shells, 6's early season, 4's late season. Don't lose too many. Nice light guns
 
Both of my labs are from pointing stock, but were taken home before final certification. The only time a wild bird holds long enough for a point have been either hens or "young/peeper" roosters. I usually use an I/C choke in all three(20/16/12) guns and don't take shots over 40-45 yards.

Like I stated previously, I like the birds to go down hard rather than having to require the dog run down cripples with only broken wings. I've seen and observed many hunters come up to SD or ND to hunt late-season birds with 20's, and it's not long before they figure out that was a mistake, and end up reaching for their 12.

I'm not implying in any way that 20's won't work. Far from it. I'm just saying that cleanly taking birds is high on my priority list, and switching to a 12 late increases the odds exponentially. Besides, going from a 7lb O/U 20 or 16 to a 7lb 12 auto is not a bad trade-off.
 
Unfortunately, I have never hunted the Dakotas for pheasant. Maybe next year...

Are you saying that roosters (other than peepers) can not be pointed? I'm going to be terribly disappointed if that is the case. :(
 
CRP said:
I'm just saying that cleanly taking birds is high on my priority list, and switching to a 12 late increases the odds exponentially.
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So why would you not shoot a 10 ga with 3 1/2 shells?

Using your analysis you would never choose #4 shot over #5 because you would get the same decrease in pellet count as a 20 vs 12.

Does this mean I should start my kid out with a 12 ga?
 
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I have to admit I like the sub gauge guns and carry a 16, 20, 28 or even 410 more often then not but for late season birds. the 12ga does come in handy. I'm fortunate to have worked hard and traded up so i have at least one of each gauge. If I was buying a new Citori and it would be a do everything gun. I would lean towards the 12. This coming from somebody who has way too many sub gauge guns to support my suggestions LOL
 
FCSpringer said:
I guess I am a 12 guy. It just seems that you can do more with one, drop down in loads, or use big stuff if you want to shoot bigger loads for something. If I could only have one I would get a 12.
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I don't disagree with that. It certainly is more versatile. Like I said, if I were hunting waterfowl, turkeys, or the like, I'd switch to a 12 too.

I just don't see why that versatility is needed for the uplands. And thank God I can have more than one.:D
 
If you hit em' your gonna killem' 12, 16, 20, 28, 410 ....!!!! Well in less you drop a leg like me!!!!LOL Less shot same speed, enough said!!! Kill many Geese with my 20!!!!! I am sure I could do it with a 28 or 410!!!!! I am as guilty as everyone else, bigger, better, more speed , more shot ..... When you sit down and actually aim and strike your target, more times then not it falls!!!! When lead was legal, we limited on honkers all the time with 20 gauge 71/2 shot over deks!!!!:cheers:
 
CRP said:
Both of my labs are from pointing stock, but were taken home before final certification. The only time a wild bird holds long enough for a point have been either hens or "young/peeper" roosters. I usually use an I/C choke in all three(20/16/12) guns and don't take shots over 40-45 yards.

Like I stated previously, I like the birds to go down hard rather than having to require the dog run down cripples with only broken wings. I've seen and observed many hunters come up to SD or ND to hunt late-season birds with 20's, and it's not long before they figure out that was a mistake, and end up reaching for their 12.

I'm not implying in any way that 20's won't work. Far from it. I'm just saying that cleanly taking birds is high on my priority list, and switching to a 12 late increases the odds exponentially. Besides, going from a 7lb O/U 20 or 16 to a 7lb 12 auto is not a bad trade-off.
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2X

I have several bird guns and like, and use every season , everything from really LW 28's to HD 12 GA duck/deer/turkey guns.

We go to SoDak later in the season and hunt over FDs, spaniels and labs. Everybody in our group are veterans and everybody uses a 12 GA. Not the only choice, but the best one unless you are hunting the opening weeks and/ or naive birds.

NB
 
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