Platte area observations

[beach004]

Re: Restock Roosters

I don't doubt that: Two weeks ago about 8 AM we saw ten roosters just standing on the shoulder of a road south of Platte, looking bewildered; nary a hen. Fortunately (I guess) they wandered back into some trees, and probably most lived until later that afternoon.

 

[UGUIDE]

I get the brood surveys are not influenced by preserves, kill reports can be swayed by hunters using pay-to-play operations. High end operations do restock roosters. Last year they ran MN based suppliers out of birds and the local preserves went hungry.

Looks like SoDak needs to reevaluate their count protocol.

The places that restock are licensed as preserves.

 

[couger71]

The places that restock are licensed as preserves.

Sorry, there are many non preserve hunting places that supplement roosters in SD. You don't have to be a preserve to release birds. I know of many in my area that are not preserves and they release birds. I'm not saying that they are counted in the harvest reports but who knows.

 

[hunter94]

Sorry, there are many non preserve hunting places that supplement roosters in SD. You don't have to be a preserve to release birds. I know of many in my area that are not preserves and they release birds. I'm not saying that they are counted in the harvest reports but who knows.

you can bet the expensive lodges aren't going to make a high fee client walk all day to kill 3 birds........we all know better than that...

 

[BRITTMAN]

The places that restock are licensed as preserves.

When SDG&F conducts hunter harvest surveys, do they ask each licensed hunter where they hunted ?

Most kill surveys are also done on your honor.

I know SD residents that hunt the ditches and public land near these release points and kill birds.

SD doesn't really care though do they. Keep the outside money coming in.

 

[BRITTMAN]

you can bet the expensive lodges aren't going to make a high fee client walk all day to kill 3 birds........we all know better than that...

Yep. A outdoor writer from the Twin Cities once wrote about the roosters he had shot on a wild bird hunt ... the beaks had marks where the nasal tag once were.

Tail feathers are often another good clue.

Again, I have no issue of hunting pen raised birds ... but guys dropping $500/day or more to shoot pen birds >

 

[UGUIDE]

Man, this South Dakota Forum is really getting to be a Debbie Downer.....

Wa Wah Waaahhhhh

 

[treedagain]

uguide, sorry if people posting there opinion bothers you so much.....looks like a bunch of guys sharing info on how SD inflates (???) bird #s and brainstorming a few things...not all of us are trying to sell SD as a bird filled wonderland.

my experiance this year was mowed WIA's with private land next to them still in grass with paid hunters. after checking ownership and finding a comman theme of the mowed ground having the same owner as the standing grass that was used by paid hunters was disturbing... my group did well on roosters, huns and sharptails. except for 1 rooster and a sharptail that we saw on the roadside and walked up and shot, we hunted behind dogs to kill about 72 birds between the 4 of us in 5 days. public SUCKED, we were able to access some private ground, small to med pieces for free (price of a couple lunches and drinks later) looks like we did better than most....we seen almost zero birds on public ground. we did better than the guys paying to play. birds were very concentrated on available habitit.

 

[SDJIM]

Man, this South Dakota Forum is really getting to be a Debbie Downer.....

Wa Wah Waaahhhhh

Hey Chris maybe we have it wrong and should just stop all the habitat work and just buy birds to place on the land every year. At least you will know how many birds there are--LOL and it would sure be better to the bottom line (just got the seed bill for my new 20.6 acre CRP planting---OUCH).

Not really the way to do it so guess I'll just keep trying to improve things as best I can. I recently saw a map of the OFFICAL brood counting routes in SD--looks like a very small sample rate--I can see where it could be easy for Ma Nature to have a hand in how the results turn out--- good or bad. Rain to night--sure sounds good on the roof--I gotta get a rain gage up

 

[couger71]

Hey Chris maybe we have it wrong and should just stop all the habitat work and just buy birds to place on the land every year. At least you will know how many birds there are--LOL and it would sure be better to the bottom line (just got the seed bill for my new 20.6 acre CRP planting---OUCH).

Not really the way to do it so guess I'll just keep trying to improve things as best I can. I recently saw a map of the OFFICAL brood counting routes in SD--looks like a very small sample rate--I can see where it could be easy for Ma Nature to have a hand in how the results turn out--- good or bad. Rain to night--sure sounds good on the roof--I gotta get a rain gage up

No need to feel sorry for yourself. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just don't want Uguide giving incorrerct information. Same as I don't want SDGF&P giving misleading information. And I don't think they did, they did their road counts the same as they have done for 75 years. SDGF&P saw alot of birds because of the limited cover. They may have to add a "amount of cover" factor to their study. I will admit, I was fooled by the bird numbers on our farm. In Sept and early Oct, I was seeing alot of birds, 50 cocks in one spot, many times. The problems was, I was seeing ALL of the birds with the lack of cover. We were done with corn harvest on Oct 3rd, six weeks earlier than normal. We feel we are down about 20% this year. I feel the hatches after July 1, did not survive. No moisture, dew, bugs for them to live on. We didn't shoot any young roosters this year. Usually we shoot about 20% young ones the first couple weeks.

I still believe SD has the best pheasant hunting in the world. I feel very lucky to live here and have a farm to hunt pheasants. It is still awesome.

Keep up the good work to preserve the land for the future. You will be rewarded. I will also continue to do it on our farm.
In the last 3 years we have added over 300 acres of CRP and taken out over 15 acres of very good productive land and planted 1000's of trees. I think we have the pieces of the puzzle in place. Now just for some normal weather.

It is a easy formula :

habitat = pheasants
habitat/good weather = tons of pheasants

Off to go hunting --- 3 weeks more :cheers:

 

[hunter94]

No need to feel sorry for yourself. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just don't want Uguide giving incorrerct information. Same as I don't want SDGF&P giving misleading information. And I don't think they did, they did their road counts the same as they have done for 75 years. SDGF&P saw alot of birds because of the limited cover. They may have to add a "amount of cover" factor to their study. I will admit, I was fooled by the bird numbers on our farm. In Sept and early Oct, I was seeing alot of birds, 50 cocks in one spot, many times. The problems was, I was seeing ALL of the birds with the lack of cover. We were done with corn harvest on Oct 3rd, six weeks earlier than normal. We feel we are down about 20% this year. I feel the hatches after July 1, did not survive. No moisture, dew, bugs for them to live on. We didn't shoot any young roosters this year. Usually we shoot about 20% young ones the first couple weeks.

I still believe SD has the best pheasant hunting in the world. I feel very lucky to live here and have a farm to hunt pheasants. It is still awesome.

Keep up the good work to preserve the land for the future. You will be rewarded. I will also continue to do it on our farm.
In the last 3 years we have added over 300 acres of CRP and taken out over 15 acres of very good productive land and planted 1000's of trees. I think we have the pieces of the puzzle in place. Now just for some normal weather.

It is a easy formula :

habitat = pheasants
habitat/good weather = tons of pheasants

Off to go hunting --- 3 weeks more :cheers:

couger, i think you summarized the whole situation really well...very accurate in your assessment.....it is what it is....pray for rain, things will get better...again, nice post!:thumbsup:

 

[UGUIDE]

My point is that for the Debbie Downers (Hunters that express opinions based on their negative experience and say SD is down the tubes and Game and Fish don't know what the heck they are doing) to use their experience to day that Game and Fishes survey is less than scientific and that they inflated numbers (essentially calling them liars) is IDIOTIC, in my opinion. WHY? Because there are only about 10-50 variables between any one hunters situation and anothers let alone the environment in which counts were down and any hunters specific circumstances in the field.

Here is a case in point. Email I got from a landowner on yesterday at about noon. This landowner had called my two days prior concerned about having enough birds on their ground to keep the last two weeks groups happy and wondering if we could transfer them to another camp that was open. I convinced them they were averaging acceptable numbers and that success between hunting groups varies widely and there success even does not determine true bird numbers on the ground. He is the email:

"Good morning Chris, It happened again!!...I am ready to discount and move hunters from my camp to another due to low bird numbers...fortunately you talked me down...Week 9, 10 guys from Minnesota, got their limit yesterday by 3:00 p.m. They saw lots of birds, especially in the tall wheat stubble..
One of the hunters is the chapter president of Pheasants Forever. Really nice bunch of guys. Worn out from hunting in the snow, but they said they do their best hunting after it has snowed and were having a great time. They sounded like they will be coming back, even with the new rates. He asked me about being a Tier 1 operation. He was with U-Guide last year and said he did sees the difference in accommodations/birds.
Oh yes, also they checked spurs and only about one-third were old birds...which is good news, that there was a better hatch than I assumed from conversations with other hunters.
Obviously, I am feeling better about Week 10 group coming out. "

Keep in mind these are people that farm thousands of acres and have lived in SD on their farm all their lives.

The pheasants have fooled them two years in a row. Do you think they fooled anyone else, including Game and Fish?

Even after hunting pheasants all my life I am constantly amazed at their resiliency, adaptability and escapability.

 

[hunter94]

Chris-

i am not out to start an argument, but bad weather and snow cover will concentrate birds from long distances and we all know that....this was a good report from one camp and the landowner, but the preponderance of reports all fall have been less than stellar and less than SDGF would have us believe...no one likes to hear this, but it is a fact the population was less than the survey would suggest, by the majority of accounts of many who post here. couger's logical accounting for this seems quite sound to me.....there was a reason for the roadside survey being elevated from last year and i think he has it pegged....at any rate, it is what it is, at this point and i would expect some locations (due to the significant snow) to reveal high concentrations of birds......that is normal for this time of year...there was much less cover to begin the season, there is even less now due to the significant snows that have fallen, concentrating the birds to isolated areas of heavy cover.

 

[UGUIDE]

....at any rate, it is what it is,

I respectfully disagree. I have seen no basis for determining that the Game and Fish got it wrong. I do see posts from a host of disgruntled hunters of which I did fully expect to see.

Why? Because the cover in this state was an absolute train wreck this year.

The birds at my camp were up but the counts were down. I have a camp near Mobridge. The counts were up but the birds were down 50%.

Between Huron, Pierre, Aberdeen and Mobridge all the counts were up. I have multiple camps in those areas and some were up some were down and one said they had twice as many birds as they had ever seen there.

I can't remember the last time I have seen all the ditches in state mowed. half of CRP mowed and who knows how much other public lands mowed. and almost zero moisture since July 1 to cause any kind of new growth.

From a statistical perspective you pretty much have to throw this year out since the extremes are off the charts.

Additionally, if you have an 18% increase after a year when numbers were down 46%, did you really have an increase at all????? Do the math.

 

[BrdHntr]

The beauty of this site are the shared reports and experiences that we can use to gage the current hunting conditions. What I reported was what we experienced, which was having good success while seeing far less birds than last year.....and substantial habitat being taken out. Just a honest report by a life long bird hunter. I have no criticism of SDFG road surveys: they've been at it for years, and believe they report what they see, and don't buy the argument that they fudge numbers to keep nr hunters coming. Our several years of hunting sd made a huge difference in our success this year. If this year was our first out there, it would have been very tough, and that's what seems to be the general report this year.

 

[Labman]

Great Points!!!!!!

I respectfully disagree. I have seen no basis for determining that the Game and Fish got it wrong. I do see posts from a host of disgruntled hunters of which I did fully expect to see.

Why? Because the cover in this state was an absolute train wreck this year.

The birds at my camp were up but the counts were down. I have a camp near Mobridge. The counts were up but the birds were down 50%.

Between Huron, Pierre, Aberdeen and Mobridge all the counts were up. I have multiple camps in those areas and some were up some were down and one said they had twice as many birds as they had ever seen there.

I can't remember the last time I have seen all the ditches in state mowed. half of CRP mowed and who knows how much other public lands mowed. and almost zero moisture since July 1 to cause any kind of new growth.

From a statistical perspective you pretty much have to throw this year out since the extremes are off the charts.

Additionally, if you have an 18% increase after a year when numbers were down 46%, did you really have an increase at all????? Do the math.

 

[Uncle Buck]

No need to feel sorry for yourself. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just don't want Uguide giving incorrerct information. Same as I don't want SDGF&P giving misleading information. And I don't think they did, they did their road counts the same as they have done for 75 years. SDGF&P saw alot of birds because of the limited cover. They may have to add a "amount of cover" factor to their study. I will admit, I was fooled by the bird numbers on our farm. In Sept and early Oct, I was seeing alot of birds, 50 cocks in one spot, many times. The problems was, I was seeing ALL of the birds with the lack of cover. We were done with corn harvest on Oct 3rd, six weeks earlier than normal. We feel we are down about 20% this year. I feel the hatches after July 1, did not survive. No moisture, dew, bugs for them to live on. We didn't shoot any young roosters this year. Usually we shoot about 20% young ones the first couple weeks.

I still believe SD has the best pheasant hunting in the world. I feel very lucky to live here and have a farm to hunt pheasants. It is still awesome.

Keep up the good work to preserve the land for the future. You will be rewarded. I will also continue to do it on our farm.
In the last 3 years we have added over 300 acres of CRP and taken out over 15 acres of very good productive land and planted 1000's of trees. I think we have the pieces of the puzzle in place. Now just for some normal weather.

It is a easy formula :

habitat = pheasants
habitat/good weather = tons of pheasants

Off to go hunting --- 3 weeks more :cheers:

Pretty much how I saw things this year. Like your formula too. The constant comment that SD is full of released birds is preposterus and those of us who have lived here know better.

 

[small munsterlander owner]

with the number of PAY TO PLAY operations running in SD at the moment & the willingness for people to PAY TO PLAY & the expectations to have a good hunt for that $$$ its just preposterous to think that all the pheasants in the state of SD are truly wild???

like many have said on this forum the "DEBBIE DOWNERS" that PAY TO PLAY operations in SD brought out all our pen raised MN pheasants last season 2011
its not so they can just eat/cook all them birds they were placed out & shot by hunters PAYING TO PLAY plane & simple... not all them birds die off B4 spring & thats wear many say pen raised birds are counted in road side counts i assume?


if the state of SD runs its pheasant hunter survey anything like they run there SD turkey hunter survey they dont get all the hunters feed back they are happy to get 45%-60% feed back & the state fills in the rest of the data with educated guesses based on the number of hunters that responded & what that info would lead to...

as for the pheasant roadside survey numbers being fudged a little to keep hunters going back yr after yr that will always be the case in SD it would take a real major loose of birds & or habitat for the SD game & fish to admit they dont have enough pheasants for the large numbers of out of state hunters that come to SD each & every yr they realize that they will be over run with pheasant hunters reguardless if they are down in number a little bit so they keep there numbers on the high side to keep out of staters coming each season...??? there will be a new wave of them each season so they dont want to be DEBBIE DOWNERS & scare them out of state $$$ away with a poor or less then steller roadside bird report...

even the SD residents are on this forum saying it was tough to even scratch out a limit on there private land haunts they hunted & bird number were down so imagine how hard it was on them beaten to death public lands after opener & with the little cover that was still available to scatch out a limit or even a decent hunt on...

that goes for GUIDES as well "NOT ALL GUIDES" what guide is going to tell a hunting party not to come & give them $$$ to PAY TO PLAY they will sugar coat things & tell them half truths to get them to come & hunt & if they dont limit out then they call it hunting & if they do well on the hunt then they say i told you it would be a great hunt its a WIN WIN for them if 1 group dose not re book then they will have another group booked by next season so???

also if you go by a landowners thoughts/feelings of how many birds are on a give n peace of property they own lets hope they are at least hunters or at least take a walk in the fields prior to the hunt most of the landowners i know who can tell you were the birds are & how many are around at least get out of there trucks/tractors to get a idea of whats going on not just i did not see any birds so we must not have any on our land this yr...

its widely known that SD public lands get hit hard by tons of non resident hunters each season & that leads to more & more wild birds & more & more birds finding else-wear to call home wear they are not being pestered day in & day out by a new hunting party from a new state each day... thats not being a DOWNER thats just telling the truth & how it is man hunters can walk all day & only get a bird in the bag once in awhile in there home state not many want to travel to the pheasant capital to have the same luck they have at home & why PAY TO PLAY to maybe get a pheasant many would rather PAY TO PLAY at a preserve so they for sure have action for them selfs but more importently there dogs...

i was thinking of going to SD but i would rather just stay in MN on the SD border & hunt a hole WK around MN close to opener & see how i do??? i would see less hunters i think & plenty of birds think my family got 9 birds lost 1 last yr in MN on opener for 5 guys thats damn good for MN the next day they got 4-5 & went home early we have plenty of birds still in MN & dont need to go to SD to get schooled by pheasants or get my butt kicked & only get a bird or 2 on a trip... maybe 1 day when my dog is mature & or has a litter of pups ill make the trip out to SD but im not excited about doing so call me DEBBIE DOWNER MT excites me more as there you have a great chance at a mixed bag hunt & less hunters overall then SD even ND gets my blood pumping

 

[moellermd]

I agree no birds in SD at all.. Not a one. I would not bother to come and hunt the state again. If you all PM me your private hunting spots I will monitor them for you and let you know when the birds return. I warn you it might be a few years until birds return but that is the sacrifice I am willing to make for you guys.

 

[mnmthunting]

On my cruise around SD last week I saw good habitat. Not as much as I would have liked, there is more then I expected.
I assume all the cut and short grass will green up and grow tall for nests.
Where ever there was good Winter cover and food there were tons of pheasants. :thumbsup: