Young lab isn't retrieving this season

benelli-banger said:
I wouldn’t be too quick to give him electricity regarding this issue…don’t want to confuse the dog…
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100 percent that is a good way to make it worse. Personally I would kennel the dog while working and praising another dog. Once you get him good and pissed off he can come out and try some for himself. Goose I am certain you can find a low brow, ass grabbing Gucci guy at one of your pheasant clubs that has a kennel you can borrow.
 
Goose, I’d find a reputable trainer who will work with you and your dog by the hour…maybe work with quail or chukar’s initially and work up to
hens then young roosters…my .02 that may cost $100 or $150, but $ well spent…
 
carptom1 said:
100 percent that is a good way to make it worse. Personally I would kennel the dog while working and praising another dog. Once you get him good and pissed off he can come out and try some for himself. Goose I am certain you can find a low brow, ass grabbing Gucci guy at one of your pheasant clubs that has a kennel you can borrow.
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Haha.yes I don't believe in shock. I use the beep mode.I do have a large kennel crate but it doesn't fit in my rig. I'm going to take him out today to the park, and work with the retriever. He doesn't mind hitting the thick cover, which is great and he has a great nose. He isn't Gucci, he came from a family in Livingston, Montana who had a litter. He did not come with papers. I think I paid $500.
 
benelli-banger said:
Goose, I’d find a reputable trainer who will work with you and your dog by the hour…maybe work with quail or chukar’s initially and work up to
hens then young roosters…my .02 that may cost $100 or $150, but $ well spent…
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That's a possibility, I've owned four Labs now in my life, and every single one of them was a good retriever. I think he may have been spurred that opening day.
 
Goosemaster said:
I just can't figure out why he isn't picking birds up this year. He's getting to the bird but then just standing there.
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Has it been pretty warm? And how well in shape is little Jonesey? I've noticed if dogs are hot (which can be exacerbated by being out of shape), they can be more interested in cooling off, panting obviously, than holding a bird that prevents them from panting & cooling off.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Has it been pretty warm? And how well in shape is little Jonesey? I've noticed if dogs are hot (which can be exacerbated by being out of shape), they can be more interested in cooling off, panting obviously, than holding a bird that prevents them from panting & cooling off.
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He's in really good shape, he walks 2 mi a day. It has been really warm all fall, I've just never really worked on him with retrieving because all my other Labs just naturally retrieved. I was younger than, and yes I did work with them on retrieving a certain amount. Tying wings to a retriever dumber dummy, then throwing it and yelling bang.
 
Goose, I suspect you don't require text book, field trial type retrieves. Just a dog that brings a bird reasonably close to you in a reasonable timeframe. Depending what the problem actual is (if it could be determined), force fetch would likely solve it. But that takes time, effort, sometimes money, & not all dogs/owners react positively to it. Luckily, FF most likely isn't necessary.

My first 2 dogs each had issues. Walt started retrieving pheasants with no training (other than playing fetch with toys) in mid-season at about 6.5 months old. He just started bringing them to me one day, rather than just finding them. He was my first springer, so I had no idea how lucky I was. Early the next season, he wanted to do what you describe Jones doing. I marched over there, stuck the bird in his mouth, held it in there, & led him around by the collar for awhile, thinking I was re-establishing "fetch" (which for me at the time, included "hold"). I walked away, he dropped the bird, & followed me maybe 20 yds. I stopped, pointed & yelled "fetch", he went & got it, & we never had the issue again. Maybe I got lucky, but it worked and was quick, easy, painless, & free.

I accidentally taught my 2nd springer Buzz not to retrieve. This happened by allowing Walt (older, experienced & very dominant) to make each & every retrieve, but then praised both dogs when Walt brought birds to me. Then after Walt died & the show was all Buzz's, he'd do exactly what Jones is doing, finding them & standing there. I tried FF. Neither of us enjoyed it, although I was by no means a pro at it. I tried what I'd done with Walt. Bribes, pleading, begging, training with wings, training in the yard with actual pheasants. He'd do everything very well. But he had been taught very effectively that IN THE FIELD, he was not to pick those birds up.

Finally a thought hit me. I threw a pheasant into the water in a slough. He ran out to it, turned around, & looked at me. After much begging, he slowly brought it back. We did that many times, & each time he had more fun with it. So then I threw the pheasant in the weeds, in the cattails, over here, over there, back in the water. He loved it. We may have played for about an hour, extremely heavy on the praise with each retrieve. The next rooster I shot, I begged a little, but he retrieved it. Again, heavy praise. And that was that. He was a very solid retriever from then on. Again, quick, easy, painless, & free.

There are a few keys that I think work for me. Establish a command that means fetch. I happen to use fetch. Make sure the dog knows beyond a shadow of a doubt what it means. If you haven't trained a dog to do something, don't expect him to do it. Have realistic expectations. And be consistent. If you've trained a dog to retrieve & want him to retrieve, then expect him to finish the job. Don't let him off the hook, at least not very often, especially when he's young. And when they've done what you want, lay it on thick! Every time! Why wouldn't you? It makes you both feel good.

Anyhow, that's my 2-1/2 cents worth.
 
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A5 Sweet 16 said:
Goose, I suspect you don't require text book, field trial type retrieves. Just a dog that brings a bird reasonably close to you in a reasonable timeframe. Depending what the problem actual is (if it could be determined), force fetch would likely solve it. But that takes time, effort, sometimes money, & not all dogs/owners react positively to it. Luckily, FF most likely isn't necessary.

My first 2 dogs each had issues. Walt started retrieving pheasants with no training (other than playing fetch with toys) in mid-season at about 6.5 months old. He just started bringing them to me one day, rather than just finding them. He was my first springer, so I had no idea how lucky I was. Early the next season, he wanted to do what you describe Jones doing. I marched over there, stuck the bird in his mouth, held it in there, & led him around by the collar for awhile, thinking I was re-establishing "fetch" (which for me at the time, included "hold"). I walked away, he dropped the bird, & followed me maybe 20 yds. I stopped, pointed & yelled "fetch", he went & got it, & we never had the issue again. Maybe I got lucky, but it worked and was quick, easy, painless, & free.

I accidentally taught my 2nd springer Buzz not to retrieve. This happened by allowing Walt (older, experienced & very dominant) to make each & every retrieve, but then praised both dogs when Walt brought birds to me. Then after Walt died & the show was all Buzz's, he'd do exactly what Jones is doing, finding them & standing there. I tried FF. Neither of us enjoyed it, although I was by no means a pro at it. I tried what I'd done with Walt. Bribes, pleading, begging, training with wings, training in the yard with actual pheasants. He'd do everything very well. But he had been taught very effectively that IN THE FIELD, he was not to pick those birds up.

Finally a thought hit me. I threw a pheasant into the water in a slough. He ran out to it, turned around, & looked at me. After much begging, he slowly brought it back. We did that many times, & each time he had more fun with it. So then I threw the pheasant in the weeds, in the cattails, over here, over there, back in the water. He loved it. We may have played for about an hour, extremely heavy on the praise with each retrieve. The next rooster I shot, I begged a little, but he retrieved it. Again, heavy praise. And that was that. He was a very solid retriever from then on. Again, quick, easy, painless, & free.

There are a few keys that I think work for me. Establish a command that means fetch. I happen to use fetch. Make sure the dog knows beyond a shadow of a doubt what it means. If you haven't trained a dog to do something, don't expect him to do it. Have realistic expectations. And be consistent. If you've trained a dog to retrieve & want him to retrieve, then expect him to finish the job. Don't let him off the hook, at least not very often, especially when he's young. And when they've done what you want, lay it on thick! Every time! Why wouldn't you? It makes you both feel good.

Anyhow, that's my 2-1/2 cents worth.
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That's a good idea, I'm going to try that with a bird. Cleaned, that's been on ice. Maybe I'll take that bird out and throw it in the brush or the pond. I haven't been giving him treats for doing things right, and I need to start doing that. I do give him a lot of praise for flushing birds, but he's been ranging out a long ways this year and I need to reel him in with the collar I guess.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Goose, I suspect you don't require text book, field trial type retrieves. Just a dog that brings a bird reasonably close to you in a reasonable timeframe. Depending what the problem actual is (if it could be determined), force fetch would likely solve it. But that takes time, effort, sometimes money, & not all dogs/owners react positively to it. Luckily, FF most likely isn't necessary.

My first 2 dogs each had issues. Walt started retrieving pheasants with no training (other than playing fetch with toys) in mid-season at about 6.5 months old. He just started bringing them to me one day, rather than just finding them. He was my first springer, so I had no idea how lucky I was. Early the next season, he wanted to do what you describe Jones doing. I marched over there, stuck the bird in his mouth, held it in there, & led him around by the collar for awhile, thinking I was re-establishing "fetch" (which for me at the time, included "hold"). I walked away, he dropped the bird, & followed me maybe 20 yds. I stopped, pointed & yelled "fetch", he went & got it, & we never had the issue again. Maybe I got lucky, but it worked and was quick, easy, painless, & free.

I accidentally taught my 2nd springer Buzz not to retrieve. This happened by allowing Walt (older, experienced & very dominant) to make each & every retrieve, but then praised both dogs when Walt brought birds to me. Then after Walt died & the show was all Buzz's, he'd do exactly what Jones is doing, finding them & standing there. I tried FF. Neither of us enjoyed it, although I was by no means a pro at it. I tried what I'd done with Walt. Bribes, pleading, begging, training with wings, training in the yard with actual pheasants. He'd do everything very well. But he had been taught very effectively that IN THE FIELD, he was not to pick those birds up.

Finally a thought hit me. I threw a pheasant into the water in a slough. He ran out to it, turned around, & looked at me. After much begging, he slowly brought it back. We did that many times, & each time he had more fun with it. So then I threw the pheasant in the weeds, in the cattails, over here, over there, back in the water. He loved it. We may have played for about an hour, extremely heavy on the praise with each retrieve. The next rooster I shot, I begged a little, but he retrieved it. Again, heavy praise. And that was that. He was a very solid retriever from then on. Again, quick, easy, painless, & free.

There are a few keys that I think work for me. Establish a command that means fetch. I happen to use fetch. Make sure the dog knows beyond a shadow of a doubt what it means. If you haven't trained a dog to do something, don't expect him to do it. Have realistic expectations. And be consistent. If you've trained a dog to retrieve & want him to retrieve, then expect him to finish the job. Don't let him off the hook, at least not very often, especially when he's young. And when they've done what you want, lay it on thick! Every time! Why wouldn't you? It makes you both feel good.

Anyhow, that's my 2-1/2 cents worth.
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A5 is giving you good advice. Praise and excitement (and lots of it) to get them to understand what it is that you want them to do. If the neighbors don’t think that you finally lost it, you are not giving enough praise. Never start off with an ecollar when teaching them something new.
 
Glock said:
A5 is giving you good advice. Praise and excitement (and lots of it) to get them to understand what it is that you want them to do. If the neighbors don’t think that you finally lost it, you are not giving enough praise. Never start off with an ecollar when teaching them something new.
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I worked with the retriever today for 20 minutes, and he did pretty well. He did drop it one time when he smelled a snake or something.
 
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