Winged bird

Bob Peters said:
Nor should you. Worthless.
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Nah its a fun gun! Just not practical for those hunting public land taking 30yd shots unless you can afford tss. But if you can get your shots inside 25 yards its a riot and will stone a rooster every time with 11/16oz or 3/4oz 6s. Really enjoyable to carry and fun to shoot, hearing that little pop and watching a rooster fold
 
westksbowhunter said:
Seems like every year, you struggle finding birds. Obviously, you need to change something. Your dog isn't finding birds but you're not killing them.
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I'm gonna echo what westks is saying here. Hate to be blunt, but you've mentioned repeatedly on here about losing birds. This means that your shooting is bad, period. Work on improving your shooting. Everyone loses a bird here and there, but if it's happening a lot, it's because of your shooting.
Buy a few boxes of baby-magnums. Kent Fast-lead 2 & 3/4", 1 & 1/2 oz of 5's. Use an improved cylinder choke. Big pattern, tons of pellets. And don't take long shots.
 
roadscholar said:
I'm gonna echo what westks is saying here. Hate to be blunt, but you've mentioned repeatedly on here about losing birds. This means that your shooting is bad, period. Work on improving your shooting. Everyone loses a bird here and there, but if it's happening a lot, it's because of your shooting.
Buy a few boxes of baby-magnums. Kent Fast-lead 2 & 3/4", 1 & 1/2 oz of 5's. Use an improved cylinder choke. Big pattern, tons of pellets. And don't take long shots.
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I wouldn't consider 245 pellets a "ton" and a "big pattern". Theres more in 1 1/8 6 rabbit load, or a 11/16oz #7.5 .410 shell. Would you consider the 410 7.5s to be a giant pattern with a ton of pellets?
 
roadscholar said:
I'm gonna echo what westks is saying here. Hate to be blunt, but you've mentioned repeatedly on here about losing birds. This means that your shooting is bad, period. Work on improving your shooting. Everyone loses a bird here and there, but if it's happening a lot, it's because of your shooting.
Buy a few boxes of baby-magnums. Kent Fast-lead 2 & 3/4", 1 & 1/2 oz of 5's. Use an improved cylinder choke. Big pattern, tons of pellets. And don't take long shots.
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I like the 1 3/8 better. They pattern better and don't kick like the 1 1/2's. I shot 2 cases of those and they are brutal. With 6's I like imp or light mod. With 5's I like mod. He needs to open the pattern but still keeps it dense. 6's with a light mod is a perfect combo for pheasants. The 1 3/8 are fast with a lot pellets. About 30 more than the 5's of the same ounce load. He is failing to kill birds. And that makes it hard on a pup. The pup is failing cause he is failing. I would have shot several hundred dove for that dog in September. It could be gun fit with shims or length of pull. It could be he needs a low rib or high rib. But he needs to find a combination of gun and shell that patterns well.
 
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You can buy a case of golden pheasant 4’s, 5’s or 6’s with 1 3/8 ounce shot for just over $200 at Rogers. I like the 5’s and shoot IC in the bottom barrel and M in the top barrel. That combo works well for me.
 
LCR10A said:
You can buy a case of golden pheasant 4’s, 5’s or 6’s with 1 3/8 ounce shot for just over $200 at Rogers. I like the 5’s and shoot IC in the bottom barrel and M in the top barrel. That combo works well for me.
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I have been buying mine there for 25 years.

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KEOutdoors said:
Nah its a fun gun! Just not practical for those hunting public land taking 30yd shots unless you can afford tss. But if you can get your shots inside 25 yards its a riot and will stone a rooster every time with 11/16oz or 3/4oz 6s. Really enjoyable to carry and fun to shoot, hearing that little pop and watching a rooster fold
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Said the greatest shotgun shooter of all time. Sheesh your full of yourself.👎
 
KEOutdoors said:
I wouldn't consider 245 pellets a "ton" and a "big pattern". Theres more in 1 1/8 6 rabbit load, or a 11/16oz #7.5 .410 shell. Would you consider the 410 7.5s to be a giant pattern with a ton of pellets?
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1 & 1/2 oz of 5's is 255 pellets, not 245.

1 & 1/8 of 6's = 253 pellets
1 & 1/2 of 5's = 255 pellets
253 = not more than 255

There's also not more pellets in an 11/16 oz load of 7.5's

11/16 oz of 7.5's = 241 pellets
1 & 1/2 oz of 5's = 255 pellets
241 = also not more than 255
 
westksbowhunter said:
I like the 1 3/8 better. They pattern better and don't kick like the 1 1/2's. I shot 2 cases of those and they are brutal. With 6's I like imp or light mod. With 5's I like mod. He needs to open the pattern but still keeps it dense. 6's with a light mod is a perfect combo for pheasants. The 1 3/8 are fast with a lot pellets. About 30 more than the 5's of the same ounce load. He is failing to kill birds. And that makes it hard on a pup. The pup is failing cause he is failing. I would have shot several hundred dove for that dog in September. It could be gun fit with shims or length of pull. It could be he needs a low rib or high rib. But he needs to find a combination of gun and shell that patterns well.
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I agree that 6's and light mod is a great combo for pheasant. It's basically all I use for phez with 12 ga or 16 ga. I'll use mod with 28 ga.
 
roadscholar said:
1 & 1/2 oz of 5's is 255 pellets, not 245.

1 & 1/8 of 6's = 253 pellets
1 & 1/2 of 5's = 255 pellets
253 = not more than 255

There's also not more pellets in an 11/16 oz load of 7.5's

11/16 oz of 7.5's = 241 pellets
1 & 1/2 oz of 5's = 255 pellets
241 = also not more than 255
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Not sure where those numbers came from but they dont match my chart at all
 
Here you go. 165 pellets exactly in 0.999oz. thats 247.5 in 1 1/2.
 

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roadscholar said:
They're from Federal-


When I've checked various weights of 4's through 7.5's, it's always been within a pellet or two of the chart.
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Ehh i dont know about that, if you are checking federal shells then yeah probably extremely close if not spot on. But everyone uses different hardness of shot which changes pellet count. Winchester shot is notoriously heavy so youll get less shot with theirs. Copper or nickle plated will be less pellets than regular lead.

But if you are just opening up a factory "1 1/2" shell, yeah it could be anything. Never seen one be heavy though in any shell ive ever opened. If its a buffered shell it will be less pellet count (they take buffer into account with the payload weight), if its copper/nickle it will be less pellet count. Winchester are notoriously light on shot weight and pellets are heavier so way less pellets in theirs usually (Sometimes a full 1/8oz light).

I can go weigh more shot if you want, i have all sizes plus copper plated 5s. I dont know how much that will really help this discussion though.


The chart i referenced is a reloading chart, not a shotshell mfg.
 
I had coonhounds and beagles for years and it was amazing how different their noses could be. Some could run a cold track that was hours old and others could only run a track if the coon or rabbit was just there. These dogs did nothing but run track and some did it better than others just because they had a bigger nose. I'm sure nose is part of the problem in bird dogs that aren't good wounded bird trackers as well. That being said I know it is something you can train a young dog to do with frozen bird or pigeon. Otherwise you just have to wait until the dog figures it out during the hunting season and costing you birds in the meantime
 
Gobbler said:
I had coonhounds and beagles for years and it was amazing how different their noses could be. Some could run a cold track that was hours old and others could only run a track if the coon or rabbit was just there. These dogs did nothing but run track and some did it better than others just because they had a bigger nose. I'm sure nose is part of the problem in bird dogs that aren't good wounded bird trackers as well. That being said I know it is something you can train a young dog to do with frozen bird or pigeon. Otherwise you just have to wait until the dog figures it out during the hunting season and costing you birds in the meantime
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I have a friend with a lab. It only air scents, allegedly, and doesn't do any ground tracking.

One thing that get a big kick out of is pointing out tracks in the snow to Honey for her to follow. It doesn't happen often, but when they are fresh and she tracks to a bird, based on my input, it is magical. 99% of the time, she tells me to let her know when I find some fresh tracks and then goes and does her thing elsewhere.
 
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