WIHA my thoughts

I would likely pay whatever I could afford to to hunt my native place, but with the recent increase in out-of-state costs, I think Kansas is likely pushing the limit of what it's "worth" to the average out of state hunter, who doesn't have a vested, emotional attachment to the place itself, given the quality of public bird hunting in the state.

I appreciate the WIHA opportunities, and understand they are necessarily a mixed bag, but realistically, I don't see a path toward significant improvement in public access or public hunting in America without significant political and agricultural policy adjustments. Otherwise, this hobby is going the way of European hunting. I have serious doubts that the money raised by mere habitat stamp programs, license increases, etc. will be able to impact the trajectory of public hunting in any meaningful, longterm way.
 
As much as it would be nice to have plenty of well kept habitat, I think that is a lot to ask of the farmers, who aren't making enough money, for them to do. Where is the place where you can report bad land and see bad land? I've never heard of this either.
 
The KS out of state cost is still a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Less than $100 - they should raise it to match other states for example I purchased an out of state Oklahoma license February 2016 to hunt the last weekend of their quail season for 3 days and had to pay $142 -- they do not allow the purchase of a 5 day license to hunt quail which I was fine with, but would have also been fine if they offered something like SD which I will outline below.



I'd like to see KS raise the out of state license fees more, specifically for deer and charge double or triple what they charge now for an out of stater to buy a mulie stamp. (I really hate any out of staters getting this stamp period and think the privilege of hunting mule deer or antelope here should be for residents only due to their smaller numbers, but I guess it's better than when they allowed t-tags and it was a free for all)

Of course keep youth (instate and out of state) prices low - I'm all for youth say 15 and under to have a bargain basement price on the license and a slightly stepped up price for 16 & 17 yr old then normal price once you hit 18. The one caveat to that if if a youth is purchasing an either sex deer permit - should be near normal price, only give a discount for a doe permit - there are deer everywhere, no need to give someone a discount (youth or not) to shoot a buck here if they dont live here.


I have nothing against out of staters, simply I live/pay my taxes here, out of state does not and should pay a higher fee much like if I went to your state of residence I'd expect and should pay much higher fees for the privilege to hunt there as well.


My idea for pricing is do something like SD -- offer a 5 day out of state permit for $100 or near that price - and then a full season permit for double that. Require the full season permit purchase with that of a deer tag since that is likely their #1 money maker and the horn porn out of state folks are ready and willing to pay anything to satisfy their antler mania.
 
I'd like to see wildlife and parks do a round up for habitat improvement on license sales(like cabellas does) at least on online sales if not retail?. The money could go into a program for walkin hunting enrollees were the state provided the funding and the landowner the labor. Once the terms of the improvements were met the landowner would qualify for higher payments. I'm sure it would start slow but what did the walkin program start out with like 80,000 acres?
I think there are alot of farmers out there who take pride in land and habitat and would take advantage of it.

It could be as simple as a disk...or a burn, on up too more friendly crp mixes and cedar removal etc.

I'd give Troy (prairie drifter) a big pay raise and put him in charge of it.
 
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I seen KS rasied the non resident license coast that was why I did not buy a spring turkey tag for KS this year scouted some spots no bird sign hunters sign I went to town & seen the price hike I felt its not worth it & went to Nebraska...

OK is expensive to hunt but they have more public land on form of management areas I assume some $$$ go there for habitat magnince??? I hunted turkey in Oklahoma 3+ years seen bobwhite quail pheasant & turkey herd lessor prairie chicken

If u up the license coast in KS for non resident then u will sell even less license people will just go to NE once they figure out there is more pheasant up there...
 
I'm not sure Nebraska has more pheasants than Kansas. By the Hunter Success Summary released by Nebraska, Nebraska only harvested 166,000 birds last year.

I had to do a little more math to figure out Kansas totals, but if I did my math right, Kansas harvested 239,000 birds last year thanks to number of hunters x number of days hunted and then divided by the average of 1.25 birds per day.

Back to the topic at hand, I've hunted a lot of WIHA, often by using preliminary scouting to match up food plots next to cover. Outside of the lean years in 2001 and 2011-13, we had a lot of success in our quests. As pointed out earlier, sometimes things change by the time the season rolls around, but usually just a few miles down the road, is prime spot. It's a great program with over 1.5 million acres enrolled, some of which may not be the best available ground around. I'm pretty sure the number doesn't include the federal and state land as well.

If the 72,000 hunters paid ten dollars for some type of HIP stamp or whatnot, that's 720K which could go back to program. More hunter equals more funds.

I'd pony up the 10 more dollars if it's going back into the WIHA program.
 
CharBroiled said:
I'm not sure Nebraska has more pheasants than Kansas. By the Hunter Success Summary released by Nebraska, Nebraska only harvested 166,000 birds last year.

I had to do a little more math to figure out Kansas totals, but if I did my math right, Kansas harvested 239,000 birds last year
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KDWPT puts the total harvest estimate at about 346,000 pheasants last year.
 
Although I am in Iowa I will throw this out there.

I participate in Iowa's walk in program, the IHAP it's called. I won't be doing it again when the three year commitment is up for one reason. Local folks think those signs mean everything I have is open, year around and vehicles permitted.

I have had zero problems with hunters from outside the immediate area, I have enjoyed hunting with a few of them. With me it's the locals that seem to think the land is to be treated the same as public land.
 
McFarmer said:
Although I am in Iowa I will throw this out there.

I participate in Iowa's walk in program, the IHAP it's called. I won't be doing it again when the three year commitment is up for one reason. Local folks think those signs mean everything I have is open, year around and vehicles permitted.

I have had zero problems with hunters from outside the immediate area, I have enjoyed hunting with a few of them. With me it's the locals that seem to think the land is to be treated the same as public land.
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I see the same thing place I go and I know it upsets the farmers/ranchers enrolling their land. I like to deer hunt but it's typically the deer hunters both out of state and in state responsible for the driving/tearing up gates etc, that and local coyote hunters. Agitating as the actions of a few ruin it for the rest. (I've witnessed the worst atrocities during rifle deer season by both the locals and out of staters, antler mania will drive some people mad, literally)
 
There's a farmer I hunt on up in Washington county. He has one parcel only in the WIHA. He said the same thing. He said he feels more comfortable seeing out-of-state plates parked at his place rather than the same local truck. He said the fisherman are worse. He said they leave behind beer cans, trash, etc. He has had people target shooting with a 22 over his lake. He is taking it out this year. I hunt the rest of his 2200 acres and its really good hunting. The part he has in WIHA I dont even bother with. Its 200 acres. Sometimes I start there just to run my dog down. He says he gets a lot of knocks on his door to with people asking to hunt the rest of his property. Glad I got to him 14 years ago. Gave me exclusive rights just because.
 
KsHusker said:
The KS out of state cost is still a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Less than $100 - they should raise it to match other states for example I purchased an out of state Oklahoma license February 2016 to hunt the last weekend of their quail season for 3 days and had to pay $142 -- they do not allow the purchase of a 5 day license to hunt quail which I was fine with, but would have also been fine if they offered something like SD which I will outline below.



I'd like to see KS raise the out of state license fees more, specifically for deer and charge double or triple what they charge now for an out of stater to buy a mulie stamp. (I really hate any out of staters getting this stamp period and think the privilege of hunting mule deer or antelope here should be for residents only due to their smaller numbers, but I guess it's better than when they allowed t-tags and it was a free for all)

Of course keep youth (instate and out of state) prices low - I'm all for youth say 15 and under to have a bargain basement price on the license and a slightly stepped up price for 16 & 17 yr old then normal price once you hit 18. The one caveat to that if if a youth is purchasing an either sex deer permit - should be near normal price, only give a discount for a doe permit - there are deer everywhere, no need to give someone a discount (youth or not) to shoot a buck here if they dont live here.


I have nothing against out of staters, simply I live/pay my taxes here, out of state does not and should pay a higher fee much like if I went to your state of residence I'd expect and should pay much higher fees for the privilege to hunt there as well.


My idea for pricing is do something like SD -- offer a 5 day out of state permit for $100 or near that price - and then a full season permit for double that. Require the full season permit purchase with that of a deer tag since that is likely their #1 money maker and the horn porn out of state folks are ready and willing to pay anything to satisfy their antler mania.
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Kansas residents are welcome to put any fee structure in place they think is beneficial to their economy and their wildlife. I haven't lived there for 15 years, and I'm not moving back, but my point is that there is a breaking point at which Kansas's out of state hunting costs will no longer justify the expense for people who aren't as invested in the state emotionally as I am (and the number of people emotionally connected to Kansas is a very, very small number). My sense is that, for bird hunters, they are pushing that break over price point already. And the number of hunters afield seems to suggest I am correct.

The state has a shamefully small amount of public acreage, and is rapidly slipping as a bird hunting destination. If Kansas wants to charge South Dakota prices for bird hunting, they would need to offer a comparable bird hunting experience, and they do not.

I'm not a wildlife biologist, so I don't know what it would take to return Kansas it's position as a true pheasant hunting destination, but I'm pretty sure it would require more than just gouging out of state hunters because it's a palatable revenue stream, especially if that price hike results in level or diminishing revenue due to hunters simply taking their money to where birds and public land access are better. And for a state with very little tourism, if I were a resident, I would be concerned about preserving that balance in a way that benefitted Kansas and it's wildlife.

It may well be that Kansas has not reached that tipping point for deer hunting, though at some point it's lack of public land is going to make Kansas deer hunting exclusively a rich man's game. I would hate to see bird hunting go the same way, but, again, it's not my decision to make.
 
KsHusker said:
The KS out of state cost is still a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Less than $100 - they should raise it to match other states for example I purchased an out of state Oklahoma license February 2016 to hunt the last weekend of their quail season for 3 days and had to pay $142 -- they do not allow the purchase of a 5 day license to hunt quail which I was fine with, but would have also been fine if they offered something like SD which I will outline below.



I'd like to see KS raise the out of state license fees more, specifically for deer and charge double or triple what they charge now for an out of stater to buy a mulie stamp. (I really hate any out of staters getting this stamp period and think the privilege of hunting mule deer or antelope here should be for residents only due to their smaller numbers, but I guess it's better than when they allowed t-tags and it was a free for all)

Of course keep youth (instate and out of state) prices low - I'm all for youth say 15 and under to have a bargain basement price on the license and a slightly stepped up price for 16 & 17 yr old then normal price once you hit 18. The one caveat to that if if a youth is purchasing an either sex deer permit - should be near normal price, only give a discount for a doe permit - there are deer everywhere, no need to give someone a discount (youth or not) to shoot a buck here if they dont live here.


I have nothing against out of staters, simply I live/pay my taxes here, out of state does not and should pay a higher fee much like if I went to your state of residence I'd expect and should pay much higher fees for the privilege to hunt there as well.


My idea for pricing is do something like SD -- offer a 5 day out of state permit for $100 or near that price - and then a full season permit for double that. Require the full season permit purchase with that of a deer tag since that is likely their #1 money maker and the horn porn out of state folks are ready and willing to pay anything to satisfy their antler mania.
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The WIHA is paid for by federal money and license fees.
 
Crossing shot said:
The WIHA is paid for by federal money and license fees.
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I think its(based off of land area and license numbers) federal 80-20 ? We would probably do better selling more licenses at a lower cost, but would still have to come up with the 20. If every resident would buy their wife a license and quit bitching, problem solved. phuck the stamp already, pony up. and yes my wife gets a license every year for what usually amounts to one dove hunt.
 
Crossing shot said:
The WIHA is paid for by federal money and license fees.
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I understand that.

As far as KS being a bird hunting destination the political position the KDWPT has taken is that we are a deer hunting destination - that is where most of the money is generated (I have no numbers to back that up, simply my observations and opinion) both privately and commercially by leasing of land, purchases of land for recreation only, deer tags etc.


Though in my opinion if they'd take the view of South Dakota and help educate folks to improve the habitat for birds, bird hunters by sheer #'s will have a wider impact economically as the season is longer and many more people will travel into the state, however access is an issue and WIHA partially satisfies that, however if they wanted to put the focus on upland the biologists would need to enroll more habitat suitable for the same and actually manage the deer herd and not make it a free for all so anyone can get a tag which has led to the leasing circus we have now hence cutting off many bird hunting acres and letting habitat go by the wayside

As far as the comment on price gouging, I hardly think you can make that argument. Compare prices to other bird hunting destinations and what they offer - Texas, OK, SD etc - what I'm proposing is something similar to what they offer and the 5 day permit for around $100 like SD offers would likely be what most people opt for anyways. The gouging would be on the out of state deer hunters who pay whatever the cost to shoot the ghost booner that lurks behind every yucca plant per the advertising that propagates the airwaves.

The bird#'s arent going to be the same by area as you know and I'm not sure what area you frequent, but some have not recovered and will not recover due to habitat changes, some have rebounded maybe not for pheasants but for other birds to levels not seen in many many years. So it's all relative - we are a big state as you know. And comparing KS wild pheasants to SD's likely mostly pen raised/supplemented maybe overinflated harvest is not comparing apples to apples. I'd rather hunt here or in NE for birds that haven't been raised in a pen.

Heck if I had my choice I'd rather chaise prairie chickens when I'm in the mood to walk and enough dog power or cool enough weather the dog can run all day.


If you guys want to make your voices heard on the bird hunting issues - writing the head of the KDWPT may help - inundate him with emails - maybe he can make it a priority instead of placing deer first. If the focus is put on bird habitat everything else benefits as well. Whats good for them is good for many other species -- however usually the inverse is not true--- whats typically very good for turkey, deer etc is not always whats good for upland species.

Here's a link to the commissioners & their emails which would be a start.

http://ksoutdoors.com/KDWPT-Info/Commission/Commissioners

I'm not seeing where they are providing the Secretary of the KDWPT's direct contact info but here's what they list

Office of the Secretary
1020 S. Kansas, Rm 200, Topeka, KS 66612-1327
(785) 296-2281

:cheers:
 
CharBroiled said:
I'm not sure Nebraska has more pheasants than Kansas. By the Hunter Success Summary released by Nebraska, Nebraska only harvested 166,000 birds last year.

I had to do a little more math to figure out Kansas totals, but if I did my math right, Kansas harvested 239,000 birds last year thanks to number of hunters x number of days hunted and then divided by the average of 1.25 birds per day.

Back to the topic at hand, I've hunted a lot of WIHA, often by using preliminary scouting to match up food plots next to cover. Outside of the lean years in 2001 and 2011-13, we had a lot of success in our quests. As pointed out earlier, sometimes things change by the time the season rolls around, but usually just a few miles down the road, is prime spot. It's a great program with over 1.5 million acres enrolled, some of which may not be the best available ground around. I'm pretty sure the number doesn't include the federal and state land as well.

If the 72,000 hunters paid ten dollars for some type of HIP stamp or whatnot, that's 720K which could go back to program. More hunter equals more funds.

I'd pony up the 10 more dollars if it's going back into the WIHA program.
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I do apologize my harvest numbers were not what I thought I must of put Nebraska in place of MN or IA harvest numbers last year they were mid 200,000s still less then KS It seem...

The public land acre wise I'm not sure about either I have to think its pretty damn close I look at both public land atlas yearly management area wise KS is lacking Nebraska has quit a few state wide & some huge 1s plus NWR but it sounds like I need to put more time scouting better areas for KS pheasant...

Most states its about 125$ to hunt upland birds... I'd happily pay extra 10$ for better habitat to hunt even if that means leave a few rows of crops standing etc. It was 200$ +. Each Just to hunt Iowa & Missouri turkeys this spring but i hunted awesome public habitat won't do it again but iI'm trying to shoot 1 gobbler in every state on public land need a hunting license to hunt lol
 
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Are there any CRP fields that are for the WIHA. How can somebody tell that? and somebody earlier in this thread was talking about how you can report/see the bad WIHA that have bad habitats. Where can you report/see these?
 
tourism took over wildlife management in Kansas, and now it's all about the money.........just like every other state.
 
a 5 day license in Kansas or a 5 day license in SD, for approx. the same dollars?.......good bye Kansas.:eek:
 
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