Why do they do it?

P

Point!

Member
I'm somewhat new here, but have been lurking for quite some time. I enjoy reading what people have to say about our great state, their passion for the sport, and working with dogs.

That being said, there's something I can't quite figure out. Why do so many people here feel the need to give bird reports to what I call "Internet scouts"? By Internet Scouts, I'm referring to people who get on this sight and want to know where to go to find birds, where to stay, what size gun/shot to shoot, what time to hunt, etc.

I realize my comment may be taken poorly so let me explain my thoughts. This evening I was trying to explain to my 12 year old why we spend so much time scouting for birds, helping farmers with harvest, and watching the weather from February to November. I explained that we have to "work hard" year 'round to support the birds, our sport, and the people who are kind enough to let us hunt, in order to be successful.

My son replied, "I know, Dad, but it seems most people just go onto the Internet and find out on one of those boards we like to read". He showed me several threads/posts on this sight and felt that it would require much less effort to simply try and gather the necessary information from sites such as this.

We had a (another) long talk about the Internet, the information on the Internet, and its' sources. After a lengthy discussion, he replied, "so using the Internet is kind of like using an electronic device to find or track game?" I stated that it wasn't exactly like that but that I believed that using the Internet in this manner was "cheating" but that people are still going to do it because some people are just "like that".

Then he hit me with the hardest question of all, "Why do they do it? Why do people post where they think the best places are? Won't it send all the people to those spots? If people wouldn't post the information then people couldn't use the Internet to scout." I had no reply as I had no idea why people do this.

In reading various boards, I noticed that the board for North Dakota is closely monitored for "Internet Scouts". The folks on that board will let somebody know if they've asked a question that gets too specific. The moderators will even pull a post they deem, unacceptable. I believe this to be an excellent idea in the spirit of "fair chase"

Thoughts from those of you in Internet land?

Best of luck this year to all.

Point!
 
Helping others be successful protects the future of this sport. Why would anybody want to withhold information about lodging, shot size, hunting techniques, regional bird numbers, etc, if they knew it would be helpful to somebody else?

Ask yourself, "what do I have to gain by keeping this information a secret?" What would be the future of hunter education, habitat programs, WIHA, public hunting, and hunting in general if nobody is buying licenses? Helping others find success is the best way to keep them coming back and to protect the future of our sport. I don't feel like helping you (or others) become successful hurts me in the least. Hopefully you will pay me back with a helpful tip down the line... If not, at least I hope you find some success and keep buying the licenses to pay for the WIHA I enjoy visiting as I make tracks across the state.

Just a thought. I have a lot more, but I am interested to see what other responses you might get to this.
 
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I completely agree with you Toad, I don't really consider it cheating or hindering to lend advice to people. Kansas is one of the best producing states for upland hunting, and aside from saying "hey my honey hole is at this latitude and this longitude" its not going to hurt me to give a general location of where I have stumbled upon birds. As to your point on scouting and helping local farmers to gain access and information about birds I would agree with you Point. The problem with it is not all of us live where there are bird numbers, and we can hardly afford (especially in today's economy) to drive out to where the birds are throughout the year. While I do help farmers around my area we don't have a hunt able population so my help is just for the good of the cause lol. But i do agree in an ideal situation we would all be able to scout our own land and such, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world :( So I'll continue giving, and certainly taking any advice anyone can give me (one can never have enough information when dealing with roosters! :) )
 
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Toad said:
Helping others be successful protects the future of this sport. Why would anybody want to withhold information about lodging, shot size, hunting techniques, regional bird numbers, etc, if they knew it would be helpful to somebody else?

Ask yourself, "what do I have to gain by keeping this information a secret?" What would be the future of hunter education, habitat programs, WIHA, public hunting, and hunting in general if nobody is buying licenses? Helping others find success is the best way to keep them coming back and to protect the future of our sport. I don't feel like helping you (or others) become successful hurts me in the least. Hopefully you will pay me back with a helpful tip down the line... If not, at least I hope you find some success and keep buying the licenses to pay for the WIHA I enjoy visiting as I make tracks across the state.

Just a thought. I have a lot more, but I am interested to see what other responses you might get to this.
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I agree totally with toad. Doesn't the internet scouts as you are referring too biring money to your state? Years ago when we hunted in Iowa some Iowa small business owners were worried about the loss of revenue they were afraid was coming due to the lack of pheasant hunters. Now that worry is a reality.

I own a business and I have always told anyone that had called and wanted to do the work themselves exactly how to do it and that kind of free service always comes back to me. For all I know I may have been talking to a competitor. Helping someone can never be a bad thing. I have also told people with kids exactly where and how to fish to catch some crappie. It just could make one of those kids a fisherman for life.

Just as good competitors help me. Pheasant hunters and license fees brings more WIHA to you and the end result is more for everyone.
 
Just a short note, I've always welcomed newbies, and have told them this place is a wealth of information and you Gentlemen have just proved me right! I, being kinda new to the sport with only about 10 yrs or so under my belt try to give what advice I have to others knowing they in turn will give back! Nope, don't expect any Honey hole give outs, but Man has always tried to work together and I think that is what we do here at this site. Thanks for joining and Good luck to all this season!:cheers:
 
Living on the east coast and not being able to scout and witness harvest probuction, this site allows me to invision what is happening without actually being there. I have been hunting western Kansas for 15+ years, I routinely check the k-state wheat page and monitor the wheat and weather year round. I know that the weather and wheat quality and time of year the wheat is harvested directly affects nesting. But checking weather reports and watching the crop reports is nothing like reading posts from the guys that are right there watching it happen. When I read a post from M.R.Byrd that the combines are out trying to get milo harvested brings a ray of hope that the crops will be harvested prior to the season. I cant look out my truck window and see that here in PA. Offering advice and hunting location, will, like most of you have posted keep young hunters interestest in out great sport. My sleepless nights continue with the anticipation of an up coming trip, and its the people who make the posts and keep this site running that help me stay in tune with what to expect. Keep the new info coming. 9 more sleepless nights and counting!!!!
 
I believe these guys have summed it up quite well. An out of state father bringing his youngsters or even a guy (or gal) that he/she works with can ask me anything. I want them to be successful b/c I want them to keep buying NR licenses. I want their kids and grandkids to buy NR licenses. When I was young, we didn't find birds very often at all. I hated going out and walking for miles. I became of age to drive and went out west and learned about the pheasants and improved my success rate. That is when I actually started caring about pheasant hunting. Also, I live 3 hours from KS pheasant country. I drive out there scouting a couple of times per year, which as toad stated, isn't practical for most folks. I also have a father that lives in pheasant country. Truth is, I'm just privvy to more useful information than the majority of these folks are. I also want them to be successful and enjoy their experience to the fullest. I'll always be willing to help.

Now, for those of you who are only interested in serving yourself and not others; I've given good info to several folks over the past few years and several of them had success in the areas I suggested for them. They don't JUST go the area I suggested, they go to other parts of the state as well. This is handy for me b/c they almost always come back and send me a detailed pm that I can use as "internet scouting" material. I can't scout out every county in the state, but if I help enough people, I can get reports back on nearly every county in the W half of the state!
 
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I appreciate your responses. It's obvious that I am in the minority. I thank you all for being civil in tone as it appears we don't agree. Please see below to address a few of the points made by some of the responses.

Ask yourself, "what do I have to gain by keeping this information a secret?
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What is to be gained is to show a young man that he needs to do more than sit down and do some mouse clicking to find birds. Secondly, it helps to reduce pressure on a given area.

Doesn't the internet scouts as you are referring too biring money to your state?
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I live in a VERY small town and understand the importance of bringing in money to the local economy. What I disagree with is any argument that uses money as a basis for hunting. While today's hunting IS about money, I don't believe it should be. Those on this board that hunt the WIHA do so because they don't have enough or any private land to hunt and/or don't have local connections. That means they don't have enough money or the right connections to lease. The more we make hunting about money, the less the common man will have to hunt. Therefore the money argument, simply shoots those making it, in the foot (pun intended :))

The problem with it is not all of us live where there are bird numbers, and we can hardly afford (especially in today's economy) to drive out to where the birds are throughout the year.
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That's why we call it hunting. I can't calculate all the time and money spent working for my birds. It's a choice. In my case I have given up some very fine things to spend the time and money to drive all night somewhere to take a look at a new opportunity at first light.

Pheasant hunters and license fees brings more WIHA to you and the end result is more for everyone.
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Then why has the WIHA program decreased in area the last 3 years? The acres available per hunter has been shrinking every year since 2004. That does not equal more for everyone.

Again, I thank you for your civil responses, we simply disagree. I've been hunting in Kansas for years and years and have had success in every county of the state except for 7. What I've seen happening over the last few years is very disappointing with regard to so many areas getting pounded. When my son started asking the questions stated in my earlier post, it simply brought things to a head.

I sincerely wish you all a very safe hunting season.

Thanks,

Point!
 
I lean both ways. Some rely on the internet a bit too much or beleive that everyone is going to tell them where their honeyhole is at. Some do not seem to understand that the GF&P, Fish and Wildlife etc. have the public info and if they want that there is no need to go thru this conduit.
On the other hand, I do not mind advising re weather, crop conditions or what type of side x side I prefer and of course, why the Pudelpointer is the best pheasant dog on the planet!
________
Dc Marijuana Dispensary
 
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Point,

It is nice that everyone is being civil about this topic that we strongly disagree about. I would like to add that if you use ONLY the information you get from the internet, success may be very tough. Remember that pressure in one area means that someone who is willing to hunt for a few less birds per square mile will have some acreage to himself. I agree that internet scouting may cause congestion issues. However, in time, there will be good advice pertaining to every county in the state. I think this will scatter the pressure a bit.

Main point in my argument is that I want folks to be successful (I define success as at least seeing a few birds for your efforts). I want them to continue to hunt and I welcome them to KS. You mentioned WIHA acreage declining. Well, hunter numbers are declining and helping someone find birds may help reverse that trend. Some "internet scouters" are looking for an area with decent bird numbers that isn't quite as popular as high density areas might be.

Usually, people already have a general area picked out. KDWP has clustered WIHA plots together in many counties. Those hunting WIHA tend to look for the areas with lots of options first. I could go to Graham county, but I've always known that area to have lots of hunters on the opener. I'll wait until later in the year.

SD puts out a population density map. Hunter densities don't always coincide with the population density map, which suggests to me that not everyone is looking for the area with the most birds per square mile.
 
KB makes a great point. Those who don't do the leg work as you do, Point, will have marginal success at best. No amount of internet scouting can replace time in the field. I view most reports simply as tools and additional information to add to what I've already found in my scouting efforts. Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about internet scouters. If they are too lazy, or don't have the resources to go out and do the work ahead of time, they probably won't be in the field more than a few days during the season anyway.
 
Point,

I think what you are teaching your son is great! Parents (especially fathers) have to teach their kids the easy way is not always the best way and nothing works better than boots on the ground.

With that being said, I also think it is important to utilize all of your resources including internet forums. This Sunday I am taking a 3 hour trip to eastern Colorado to do some scouting before the opener. How disappointing would it be to drive that distance and find out all of the habitat has been wiped out and Walmarts have been erected in their place. I know that is pretty far-fetched but these forums are a useful tool to better understand a particular area, improve on your hunting technique, and to share stories.

The most important aspect of internet forums is to share stories and your passion of the sport with other hunters. To some, commenting on this site is just another form of small talk and a place where potential connections are made.
 
I'm an internet scout. I look at what the Game and Fish people put out as far as bird numbers and location. I look at the walk in areas and see how they match the numbers and I look at what people post. I was killing birds before I found pheasant hunting forums so I think the " forum info" is over rated. Usually people post in general terms. A guy sent me a private message inquiring about my SD hunt and I told him exactly where I hunted. It may or may not have helped. Things change as far as pressure, weather, harvesting ect. I enjoy the forums but I don't depend on them for info. Happy hunting.
 
I understand the concern, but take this incident for example. A fairly high ranking service man was stationed at Fort Riley last year. Through some of my posts, he realized I had some land out in the Great Bend area, and not having much time and/or connections, came with hat in hand and simply asked if I'd mind if he walked my ground. He had one weekend open, and didn't want to waste it. I wasn't going to be in the area, so I told him absolutely. I gave him directions and all info he needed. He was very gracious and grateful. And when it came down to his weekend of leave, something came up and he couldn't make it work. However he again thanked my over and over and was nothing but polite, even when his plans fell through. This is the good that can come from these forums. Everybody has to have their wits about them, and if somebody comes brazingly off asking for permission to a honey hole and you just start giving people permission right and left, then that's on you. And I think about my own instances. Our family owns land in Barton county. However, we live 3 hours away. I have two very young girls, and my trips are few and far between. It's a stretch for me to make it twice a year. I don't have time, due to family, to do much scouting. I get my two weekends a year, and want to make the most of them. Me taking advantage of crop reports, hail damage, and other reports is very helpful in me making the most of my trips. I totally understand wearing out the boot leather, and working for your birds. But taking advantage of the internet, and using common sense and good judgement is, I feel, is an advantage to our sport.
 
I too am glad that everyone is keeping it civil here, unlike the "grizzly posts" on main board ;) Point you say that, "That's why we call it hunting. I can't calculate all the time and money spent working for my birds. It's a choice. In my case I have given up some very fine things to spend the time and money to drive all night somewhere to take a look at a new opportunity at first light." Well thats great for you, and I wish that I had the same opportunities. But unfortunatley I am a college student and rent and tuition come before gas for a 6 hour round trip to pheasant country here in Ks. As I said earlier, your idea is great for an "ideal world" sadly we do not live in one...
 
Very impressed with the respones. Bottom line is we help people be successful hunting because we're from Kansas and that's what people from Kansas do. Help each other out.
 
KansasGsp said:
Very impressed with the respones. Bottom line is we help people be successful hunting because we're from Kansas and that's what people from Kansas do. Help each other out.
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This is the best explanation yet! It reminds me of my last trip to Garden City. There was a gentlemen on the side of the road with a flat tire. I stopped and he had a concerned look on his face like I was there to run him off or something. While making my approach I noticed he was missing an arm, though it wouldn't have mattered if there was nothing hindering him, I still would've stopped b/c he was on a back-road, alone, and having trouble. Either way, he was from Michigan and he explained to me that since he came to KS, he simply couldn't believe the generosity of folks here. I laughed b/c I've never known it to be any other way. I wouldn't have slept easily that night knowing that I'd left someone in a bad spot. I can't imagine living in a place where a person couldn't expect a passing vehicle to stop and assist. I've stopped several times where before the person needing help could get back on the road, there were as many as 3 other vehicles pulled over to help. Even if there is plenty of help, a good Kansan will at least slow down to make sure all needs are being met. All we expect in return is the feeling we get from helping someone out.

Enough rambling......I'm glad Kansans are so willing to help others out. I've noticed that forums focused on other states usually don't have as many people that are so willing to share information. Thanks for reminding why I'm proud to be a Kansan KansasGSP! Maybe someday we'll have the most successful/active Wildlife and Parks department b/c of our efforts to support long-term revenue.
 
Kansas....

I agree with the sentiments about Kansans helping each other and helping folks who are coming to hunt. I would also say (and I may be defensive but this feels like it was directed at me for telling the guy from Idaho to come anothe County or two east) that telling someone x county or y county means you are giving them a "location" of what... a 100 square miles? In all the years I have hunted WIHA I have only had one field on opening day that I was going to hunt have a truck beside it when I got there first thing in the morning. Its a big state with lots of public hunting, lots of folks who will let you hunt IF you ask and lots of open country. We can afford to tell someone there has been a drought (or a hail storm or whatever) in an area so that they have a better time while they are here.
 
I can only speak only for myself and say that as a member of the armed forces I do not have the time to drive out to Kansas where I hunt and do all that scouting and such....i would if I could, however I cannot. Now, I do not rely on this site or others for "internet scouting" I rely on the folks I know who live in Kansas and who live where I hunt to let me know.
I would also like to add that to assume folks only go on-line to scout and that they don't or wouldnt' do the work that you and your son do, is simply not fair. How can you assume that? You don't know these people...well neither do I for that matter.

Now, the places I hunt are private and you have to have permission to hunt so I really could care less if folks are internet scouting because unless I give them the GPS coordinates, they will never know where I hunt.

Public land, well that is public....so if someone gets pissed because their "honey hole" is found, but it is public...well to bad, everyone else pays taxes and fees so it is fair game.

If I had the money to hunt in South Dakota on private land I would, however I don't....but I like Kansas better because I like the people. Good peeps, not to far to drive compared to elsewhere, and just like where I live in Colorado Springs, people come from all over wanting to get an ELK and there is internet scouting for that.....again, thousands, upon thousands of acres to hunt.....

Just my thoughts:rolleyes::cool:;)
 
I would like to add also that the posts that talk about kansans generosity, are absolutely true....to the "T"....

I call folks in Kansas, "salt of the earth" type folks....I mean the guys I hunt with down by Dodge city I had met thru a guy I was stationed with up at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage, AK. His dad knew a guy in Kansas and back in 1996 I went out to hunt and well the rest is history.

The one saving grace is that I am not a Broncos, Raiders, or chargers fan :D:p:thumbsup:

I help guys out all the time that I meet in the Air Force who get stationed here in colorado and don't know where to hunt or fish....I mean, what, should I tell them to go online and internet scout.....
 
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