using an e-collar

D

Dami0101

New member
I have a 7 month old SM that I've had an e-collar on for a few months but have only been using the tone feature for recall up until this point. Now I'm at the point where I think it's time to start using the shock function when she doesn't listen, but my question is when do you use continuous vs. momentary? Lets say I tell her to come and she just keeps sniffing the grass, do you nick her or use continuous until she comes?
 
you must teach the dog how to turn off the stim if you've only used tone that's not happened and it's very important

google collar conditioning and study the topic until you are certain you understand the procedure

then come back here and ask questions before you proceed

if you don't teach the dog how to turn it off by complying to a command, you will just frighten the dog and set back your training and undermine the dogs trust in you
 
You need to do some research on "Collar Conditioning". Please do not use any stimulation on that poor dog until you do some research and get some help from someone local who is knowledgeable.
 
I agree with with Bob and West. E collars are for reinforcing or enforcing known commands not punishment. All the collar conditioning DVDs or books I've seen do it similarly. Put the transmitter in the drawer, learn about collar conditioning, and buy a check cord.
When you have done this and if you still have questions check in. Right now you don't know enough to know how much you don't know. I'm sure this wasn't the answer you wanted but its the one you need.
 
I think the collar can be a fantastic aid in training, but agree that you should
do some research before using. Most of my dogs have responded very well
to the collar, but not needed much once they get it.
 
David0311

Dami0101 said:
I have a 7 month old SM that I've had an e-collar on for a few months but have only been using the tone feature for recall up until this point. Now I'm at the point where I think it's time to start using the shock function when she doesn't listen, but my question is when do you use continuous vs. momentary? Lets say I tell her to come and she just keeps sniffing the grass, do you nick her or use continuous until she comes?
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PLEASE-PLEASE:eek:

Listen to advice in above post--Do Not Use--that collar with out some proper training and knowledge :cheers:
 
Not for nothing but the "sound advise" so far has to been to do research, which is what I'm attempting to do. Telling me to just Google it doesn't work as there is a lot of information out there with different approaches and theories, some of which conflict with each other. One says to keep hitting the momentary stim until the dog is back to you, one says only use it to get the dogs attention, another says use continual until the dog is back to you, and these differences of opinion are coming from the breeder vs the trainer I sent her to for gun and bird intro. If someone could recommend a resource that would be helpful.

As to why not train without the e-collar, I might be wrong but I thought the whole point was to train the dog without the e-collar and use the collar to reinforce commands when the dog doesn't listen or to send commands when they are out of ear shot, i.e. I'm using tone as a recall.
 
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I will discuss it with you. I only used a shock collar (1980s) on one dog. I knew Charlie heard me because his head started to turn. He would snap his head back as soon as he realized looking at me meant he heard me. If he was smelling birds, he would not have heard me. I momentarily corrected him. Not very often.

The last few years, I have been using an Astro. Since hunting hasn't been fantastic, most of the time when the point alert goes off, the dog stopped to listen for me (my dogs must track me). Learned that dogs do not always know where you are. I am going to upgrade to an Alpha at some point for the tones. Great idea to use one for recall. I won't reinforce the recall tone with correction while hunting. I will during training when no bird scent is around.

Having GPS makes it easy not to use an e-collar. The less stressed I am, the better chance my dog doesn't need a correction. If you can, I would use a Garmin Alpha.
 
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Dami0101 said:
Not for nothing but the "sound advise" so far has to been to do research, which is what I'm attempting to do. Telling me to just Google it doesn't work as there is a lot of information out there with different approaches and theories, some of which conflict with each other. One says to keep hitting the momentary stim until the dog is back to you, one says only use it to get the dogs attention, another says use continual until the dog is back to you, and these differences of opinion are coming from the breeder vs the trainer I sent her to for gun and bird intro. If someone could recommend a resource that would be helpful.

As to why not train without the e-collar, I might be wrong but I thought the whole point was to train the dog without the e-collar and use the collar to reinforce commands when the dog doesn't listen or to send commands when they are out of ear shot, i.e. I'm using tone as a recall.
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You are going to have to do research and learn as much as you can then decide what program you wish to proceed with. I know you came here for advice but this is the worst place to come get instruction on how to use the collar. And none of us want to be the reason you ruined your dog so we have instructed you to do research. The problem is you are wanting to enforce commands without having conditioned the dog to the collar. You are putting the cart before the horse. I would also suggest getting a dvd on collar conditioning, Fowl Dogs is top notch. To help you more, here are 2 of the best programs: Dobbs or Lardy. I would steer you towards Dobbs because it is much easier to follow for the novice. Please click on the following link.

https://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/index.html
 
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If you really want some hands on training info post a video of you doing obedience drills with your dogs. Show us how the dog does on recall, how the dog does on sit, and how the dog heels on and off a lead. If you can show me how your dog does on obedience training, I can tell you if the dog is ready for the collar. Keep in mind that the dog needs to wear the collar for a month without you ever turning the reciever on. If you just strap on the collar and start using it, your dog will be "COLLAR WISE" within a week. The collar has to be placed on the dog every time you let it out of the kennel for training. No time off from the collar. This is part of collar conditioning. I am not trying to knock your obedience with the dog, but most of the time when someone posts on these forums the dog is not anywhere near going through collar conditioning. Generally, basic obedience starts around 6 months, then force fetch and then collar conditioning. Don't be offended, but if you ask on here, I will be brutally honest with you. Again, so me what the dog can do I then we can proceed to the next step.
 
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Dami0101 said:
Not for nothing but the "sound advise" so far has to been to do research, which is what I'm attempting to do. Telling me to just Google it doesn't work as there is a lot of information out there with different approaches and theories, some of which conflict with each other. One says to keep hitting the momentary stim until the dog is back to you, one says only use it to get the dogs attention, another says use continual until the dog is back to you, and these differences of opinion are coming from the breeder vs the trainer I sent her to for gun and bird intro. If someone could recommend a resource that would be helpful.

As to why not train without the e-collar, I might be wrong but I thought the whole point was to train the dog without the e-collar and use the collar to reinforce commands when the dog doesn't listen or to send commands when they are out of ear shot, i.e. I'm using tone as a recall.
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You should consult Todd Agnew of Craniey Hill Kennels in Georgia. Re Collar Conditioning etc.
Do you want your dog to have a relationship with you or the collar ?
Your connection with the dog will be second to none if you dump the collar and work together.
Pete
 
Dami0101 said:
Not for nothing but the "sound advise" so far has to been to do research, which is what I'm attempting to do. Telling me to just Google it doesn't work as there is a lot of information out there with different approaches and theories, some of which conflict with each other. One says to keep hitting the momentary stim until the dog is back to you, one says only use it to get the dogs attention, another says use continual until the dog is back to you, and these differences of opinion are coming from the breeder vs the trainer I sent her to for gun and bird intro. If someone could recommend a resource that would be helpful.

As to why not train without the e-collar, I might be wrong but I thought the whole point was to train the dog without the e-collar and use the collar to reinforce commands when the dog doesn't listen or to send commands when they are out of ear shot, i.e. I'm using tone as a recall.
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First, make certain your dog is SOLID on basic obedience training before you start using the e-collar. Do your homework and two good resources would be E-Collar Conditioning by Mike Lardy or similar topical materials produced by Evan Graham. If ye can, affiliate with a training group or club, or seek the assistance of a qualified pro. As others have stated, ye get one chance to get it right. Time spent now doing things right will reap huge benefits later.

Irishwhistler
 
Dami0101 said:
Not for nothing but the "sound advise" so far has to been to do research, which is what I'm attempting to do. Telling me to just Google it doesn't work as there is a lot of information out there with different approaches and theories, some of which conflict with each other. One says to keep hitting the momentary stim until the dog is back to you, one says only use it to get the dogs attention, another says use continual until the dog is back to you, and these differences of opinion are coming from the breeder vs the trainer I sent her to for gun and bird intro. If someone could recommend a resource that would be helpful.

As to why not train without the e-collar, I might be wrong but I thought the whole point was to train the dog without the e-collar and use the collar to reinforce commands when the dog doesn't listen or to send commands when they are out of ear shot, i.e. I'm using tone as a recall.
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Agreed. You came here to do some research. I'm not an e-collar expert but have been using them for probably 20 years. I use the continuous stimulation mode on my collars but don't ever do more than hit the button for a split second. I keep it on continuous because if I ever really need to stop the dog in its tracks (maybe she's heading into danger of some sort) I want it to be there. So bottom line is never hold the button down for more than a split second.

I give the command, if the dog doesn't respond I hit the button and give the command again. You should watch how the dog reacts. The first time the dog will likely get scared. Make sure you have their attention before giving the command a second time. You should only try to get the correct response a few times. If you don't get the correct response then stop. It's likely the dog doesn't even understand what is expected. Go back to square one of training that particular command.

Don't use the collar around birds.

Use common sense. It's not rocket science.
 
All great advice here. I would suggest you look into a training group. There is an organization of dog handlers which help each other with training. NAVHDA they might a chapter in your area. Google it and see. I have had great success with this group. There are many SM in our club here in San Diego
 
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