two shots on the same Rooster ?

[bobman]

I use a 12 ga sxs cylinder x improved cylinder over pointers, 5s in the first barrel 4s in the second and limit my shots to about 30 yards

rarely have birds continue to fly after first shot, choke is something that has been made mostly obsolete since the shot cup was invented

Michael Macintosh and Tom Roster have written extensively about why open chokes are better

I do think large shot is the thing with roosters

 

[cbass12]

I can only remember purposely shooting a bird a second time once, and it happened this past opening day on a bird that was coming across the line that somebody to my left "knocked down". Bird still had his head up and was still attempting to fly as he was on his way down, I knew he was going to run so I put a head shot on him. Some of the guys asked me why I shot him again, apparently they've never had a bird run on them.

 

[Crossing shot]

Lots of good commentary going on here. This will be mostly repetitive, but I want to chime in & try to condense some of it while inserting plenty of opinion (some pretty biased, but based on lots of experience). The first thing is attitude. You have to want them as dead as you can possibly get them. Do enough shooting/hunting that you're able to take that extra second to get your footing & body position right & really SEE the bird (preferably his head). Without really seeing him, your hand/eye coordination isn't coming fully into play. Being calm comes w/ experience, but once you get there, your shooting will improve a lot. It takes effort, but take an extra second & make that 1st shot count & don't be so worried about follow-ups. A5 Sweet 16 is the most effective gun, but you can easily get by w/ an inferior make/model and even a 20 or 12 (little humor there). Minimum 20. My opinion on chokes: Leave IC at home, much like a 3-iron. Use MOD all year until late season when they're extra tough & wild. Then go IM or FULL. Avoid high velocity unless shooting steel. Minimum lead velocity 1200-1250. 1300-1350 is perfect. Limit lead velocity to 1350 unless you've done extensive patterning (correctly) & KNOW you're holding things together. (patterning can be important w/ ALL shot material) Steel....#3.....maybe #4. Everything else......#5....maybe even #4 later on. Not that 6's don't work, but they're most appropriate on closer birds & we don't want to be limiting ourselves that way. Limit your shots to 35 yards until you start to improve, especially since the dogs are obviously not seasoned pheasant dogs. Until the dogs improve, try to find a good springer to hunt with. (That's another attempt at humor, guys. Not that there isn't some truth behind it, but the intent is humor.)

Good advice. My first shot always coincides with my brother's second. I have no idea how he can shoot so fast.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

choke is something that has been made mostly obsolete since the shot cup was invented

Michael Macintosh and Tom Roster have written extensively about why open chokes are better

A more open choke is only better to the point that your load in your gun reacts poorly to a more open choke, based on pattern testing & the intended use of that load.....which does happen. Not w/ all load/gun/choke/use combinations, but with plenty of them. I've read Mike & Tom's stuff, & some of it's real useful. But we have to remember that the proof is on the patterning paper (or in the game pouch); not on the paper on page 73. Chokes are FAR from obsolete.

 

[bobman]

inside of 30 yards cylinder sure works well for me maybe it's the gun

my reloads are 1 1/8 oz at around 1200 FPS fwiw

 

[mgorvi]

Two shots

Maybe one size larger shot and pattern your gun with different kinds of ammo. I fringed quite a few birds for a couple years and took Zeb's advice and went to a
more open choke, and it helped. Most shots were closer than what I thought they were. I shoot mostly 5s, and some 4s. Have a talk with your dog, too. They feel bad when they lose a bird, so you have to have a little therapy session once in a while to build up their confidence and self esteem. Good luck.

 

[Tilkut]

First I like a little upscale on the load like the #5 golden pheasant. Then I try real hard to let the dog have plenty of time to work things out. If we are still bird less, I start circling the place I think the bird went down in larger and larger circles. In a strange way I enjoy a little effort to recover a bird, because it lets me really see my dog utilize her skills. We had some really great retrieves and finds this year. Only really rough one was when she did not see the bird go down, so she didn't want to bust out into a solid wall of cattails in 2 feet of water. I had to open a trail for her to start, and the water was really cold!. But once she was able to get in there she recovered the bird. Our limit here is only 2 pheasants, so there's plenty of time for trailing. Some of my best memories are recoveries.

 

[Dakotazeb]

Thanks for all the replies. I shoot a 16 ga. SxS with skeet I and Skeet II chokes. 1 1/8 oz lead shells.

If your SxS has choke tubes I would try tightening up the chokes a little. IC & Mod has always been a good combo in SxS's and O/U's. I shoot a 16 ga. all season with IC in my Sweet Sixteen and IC & Mod in my 16 ga. Citori. I use mainly #6 shot in Fiocchi Golden Pheasants. I might go to #5 shot late in the season. This combination of choke and shells has worked great for me. But if you don't get that bird centered in the pattern the gauge, shotshell or choke will make little difference.

 

[mgorvi]

Two shots

Good advice from DZ. i didn't see your post describing your
current choke set up. Might be a little loose. I shoot IC and LM all season in my
12 ga depending on cover and weather,and just ordered IC and LM for 20ga ou that my kids just bought me as
a starting point for patterning. My dog occasionally has a hard time locating a dead bird in heavy cover, but seldom loses a cripple. Must be something about scent strength between alive and dead. Not sure.

 

[haymaker]

I have always shot a full choke. That is what I grew up with. I am not likely to change at this point in my life. I think that I am more likely to either kill the bird or miss it completely because of the tight pattern, what thoughts do the rest of you have?

 

[Dakotazeb]

I have always shot a full choke. That is what I grew up with. I am not likely to change at this point in my life. I think that I am more likely to either kill the bird or miss it completely because of the tight pattern, what thoughts do the rest of you have?

Haven't shot a full choke at pheasants in over 40 years. Once I went IC I never looked back.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

If your SxS has choke tubes I would try tightening up the chokes a little. IC & Mod has always been a good combo in SxS's and O/U's. I shoot a 16 ga. all season with IC in my Sweet Sixteen and IC & Mod in my 16 ga. Citori. I use mainly #6 shot in Fiocchi Golden Pheasants. I might go to #5 shot late in the season. This combination of choke and shells has worked great for me. But if you don't get that bird centered in the pattern the gauge, shotshell or choke will make little difference.

DZ, with your 16 ga GP #5 thru IC, what would you call max consistently effective range?

 

[mgorvi]

Full

My first four years hunting in SD I either used modified, because my gun was fixed choke, or IM when I thought I could hit anything with my M2, which of course, I couldn't. Then, the clouds parted and a voice rang out, and told me, "son, you are too constricted. Loosen up, gird your loins, and hunt hard." Now the tightest I go is LM, mostly in thin cover, and IC in cattails and thick dense cover. Heeding the voice from above has resulted in many more feathers sticking out of my vest. I always wondered who's voice that was, and I'm still not 100% sure, but when I looked up I saw a vague cloud formation that appeared to form the letters DZ.

 

[Dakotazeb]

My first four years hunting in SD I either used modified, because my gun was fixed choke, or IM when I thought I could hit anything with my M2, which of course, I couldn't. Then, the clouds parted and a voice rang out, and told me, "son, you are too constricted. Loosen up, gird your loins, and hunt hard." Now the tightest I go is LM, mostly in thin cover, and IC in cattails and thick dense cover. Heeding the voice from above has resulted in many more feathers sticking out of my vest. I always wondered who's voice that was, and I'm still not 100% sure, but when I looked up I saw a vague cloud formation that appeared to form the letters DZ.

You're funny! Didn't realize I left that much of impression on you.

 

[Dakotazeb]

DZ, with your 16 ga GP #5 thru IC, what would you call max consistently effective range?

I'd say 35-40 yds. I know lots of guys will say that's too far for IC but don't think so. Hell, I once dropped a rooster stone dead with my 16 ga. IC and #6 shot at 72 paces. Lucky shot. Didn't realize it was that far when I pulled the trigger. The pellets go just as far and fast through an IC choke as a Full choke, only difference is the pattern is thinner.

 

[Crossing shot]

I have always shot a full choke. That is what I grew up with. I am not likely to change at this point in my life. I think that I am more likely to either kill the bird or miss it completely because of the tight pattern, what thoughts do the rest of you have?

Another aspect to consider is the quality of the meat. The best shooting year for me was a 20 gauge using 3" 4 steel with an IC. Most of the breasts were intact. Only lost one wounded. Had a close working britt with me that saw most birds fall. Was hitting most in the head/backbone and the pellets did not have the energy to enter most of the breasts. Nice to have a pheasant breast that looks like you bought it at a supermarket.

Later that season, on a late January hunt, loaded up a 5 shot lead that the reloader said would kill birds to 65 yards. Way out of my range. Hit one at 40 yards and had to discard it.

 

[Dakotazeb]

Getting back to the OP's original question. I think a 2nd shot at a falling rooster might very well become a safety issue. That 2nd shot might be too low and endanger other hunters or dogs in your party. Like the old saying, "If it's low, let it go!" Observing the 45 degree rule promotes good safety in the field.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

I'd say 35-40 yds. I know lots of guys will say that's too far for IC but don't think so. Hell, I once dropped a rooster stone dead with my 16 ga. IC and #6 shot at 72 paces. Lucky shot. Didn't realize it was that far when I pulled the trigger. The pellets go just as far and fast through an IC choke as a Full choke, only difference is the pattern is thinner.

Just as I suspected. I need my consistently effective range to be 50 yds, so I shoot modified, with occasional full days late in the season. I'm able to put the shot where it needs to be on longer shots most of the time, so it works well for me. Granted, straight away range is considerably less because that's just the nature of shooting pheasants. But I need to be able to bring down & recover a 45-50 yard crosser, quartering bird or oncoming/overhead. And no, I'm not mangling 20-30 yard birds. Truthfully, I think my MOD results in a little looser pattern with my loads than a pure, by the book 40-yd MOD pattern. That's the fun of it. All gun/choke/load combinations aren't created equal.

 

[Chestle]

If the bird is coming down with his head up, you have a runner. Even if you "legged him", he will still run. Seems like they can run on stumps almost as fast as they run on normal legs.

Now, as to a 2nd shot on a falling bird...it depends on a lot of things. Are you hunting alone? What's the cover like? Where's the dogs? If you are in a group, where are the others in relation to the line of shot?

In short, yes, I have shot falling roosters with their heads up. Mostly in short cover with clear sky all around them.

One has to be situationally aware but there are times when it is not a dangerous shot. Obviously, one would err on the side of caution.

 

[haymaker]

Another aspect to consider is the quality of the meat. The best shooting year for me was a 20 gauge using 3" 4 steel with an IC. Most of the breasts were intact. Only lost one wounded. Had a close working britt with me that saw most birds fall. Was hitting most in the head/backbone and the pellets did not have the energy to enter most of the breasts. Nice to have a pheasant breast that looks like you bought it at a supermarket.

Later that season, on a late January hunt, loaded up a 5 shot lead that the reloader said would kill birds to 65 yards. Way out of my range. Hit one at 40 yards and had to discard it.[/QUO
Because I hunt behind my Draht , most of the birds I shoot are flying away or at least quartering away at some angle so I don't mess up many breasts.