training day

M

MAB7799

Member
Had a fun training day with my lab Gus. Been trying to get him some upland experience since he has only water fowled until this year. He flushed 2 coveys and 3 singles today. This was his 3rd time out. He is starting to figure it out and he did a great job using his nose today. These were birds I've hunted earlier this year so I only pulled the trigger once so he could get a retrieve. Saw some pheasant tracks in the melting snow but couldn't find the birds. Until the wife lets me get a pointer I'll train the lab instead haha.
 
Hey nothing wrong with a lab for upland. Mine does a wonderful job on them. You really have to be paying attention on quail though. I will say hunting quail over a pointing dog is much more fun than over a flusher. Shooting quail that arent properly pointed is just not nearly as fun, at least in my opinion. Some will disagree.
 
My lab points quail. And an occasional rooster. Nothing prettier though than a lab working a pheasant for a 1/4 mile then going in for the flush. With my dogs I don't have to be any more ready for a flush than a point. They are so dang birdy and low to the ground working a bird. I actually have more time to prepare for a shot with my labs flushing than any pointing dog that I have owned.
 
When my GPS says my dog is on point 300 yrds away I have quite a bit of time to prepare for a flush lol. Matter of fact so much time I usually load my gun when I start getting close and decide how I'm gonna approach the birds.

:D

Love hunting over my lab as well though. Soon to have another lab. He's going to be my new hunt test dog. :cheers:
 
Yes I am aware of what type of dog you are hunting. So why do you want your dog 300 yds away? I had the absolute best English setters in the country in the 70's and 80's and never had one hunting more than 100 yds away from me. When pheasant hunting they quartered just like my labs do. Never ranging more than 30 yds. The chances of a pheasant holding while the hunter is 300 yds away is slim and none. That is just my experience in hunting pheasants at least 30 days a year each year.

My granddad and C.A. Johnson always said if your dog can't hear you it is hunting for itself and not you.
 
I don't pheasant hunt so a quartering pointer is not what I want. If you would like to come with me sometime quail hunting I would sure love to have you.

Or hey, grab your lab and bring him out and we can have a training day. Ill be getting ready for spring hunt tests shortly.

Obviously I'm not going to argue with you about what range we both think a bird dog should be at. I'm not a bird dog guy but now know what I like in a bird dog, specifically one used for quail hunting. And that dog is not a close working one. Again, personal preference.

Never heard of your grandpa. If he wasn't a retreiver guy I would not ever have heard of him. I don't just hunt pointers. I normally hunt labs but just for quail because there are much much better choices than a lab.

A dog that is out of ear shot does not mean that it is "hunting for himself". If it did then I wouldnt be able to turn my dog with the use of a whistle or ecollar or be able to whistle him I'm, and he wouldn't stamd his birds you got there he would just bust right through them.. Also with a retreiver I wouldn't be able to handle him on a blind retrieve due to being out of ear shot. Nothing further from the truth. Range has nothing to do if a dog hunting for itself or not.
 
Last edited:
Personally I don't see hunting pheasants effectively with a setter at 30 yds. or 300. IMO that's a little overboard at both ends of the extreme.
That said I believe we are all looking for the same thing. the Outstanding. Every dog has it's day and every year it's moment. But at the end of it's lifetime only a hand full live on.
 
I have a bigger running setter that is often in the 300-500 yard range in open country, He is as good a quail dog as I would hope to have. And I can tell you that he is not hunting on his own. He is always standing there when I get to him. With the advent of the Garmin GPS collars you know where they are at all time and can communicate with them no matter how far or windy it is.


Is 300+ yards an ideal distance to have a dog on point on pheasants, no, but a shorter running dog would likely never stop those running birds. But he changes his range based on the cover.

Ideally I like to have two dogs of different ranges hunting pheasants in grass. One big runner and one that is 75 - 150 yards. They both have to back each other, but I find that the birds tend to hold better with two dogs out there,

We get talking about this range is best and that range is worthless, it depends on the bird you are hunting, the cover you are in, and your personal taste. But I like pointing dogs to get out there and find the birds well outside of gun range. That is what pointing dogs are designed for.
 
Last edited:
I always thought that the two dog combination always produced more points. Doesn't really matter which breed you use, as long as the two dogs are used to working together. Use to think GSP/Britt was the ideal combo, but before my dog died, he and his Dad both GSP's could work a field like champs.
What say you?
:cheers:
 
I have been a pointing guy forever, have Labs too! Except in overgrown CRP or hunting in 40@ of plum brush, I cannot see a purpose of a thirty yard range. Why have a dog that will point birds you are going to blunder over yourself! Again, I am a quail hunter, the pointers hunt pheasants too, might not be ideal, and birds will flush wild, some they heard around and pin between you, now that is a bird dog. By the way, the more dogs stated above is correct by my experience. I had a litter of pups, honest on point, a little iffy on backs, hate to leave them at home or in the trailer in the field, so in a big CRP field I let them go! They went everywhere, way out, quartered back, left right, more less going my direction. Never saw but one or two pheasants there in years, these pups found and pointed 7 roosters, one pushed back to me and pointed from three directions with 5 dogs, ( I was sure it would be a hen). As we approached the road, we had a big flush, with the road as a blocker, 2 of the roosters and 10-12 hens. Made a believer of me. Most of the time with 1-2 dogs in that cover, it's child's play for hunted pheasants, with a mixture of scent and that kind of structure, they loop around back track, slip out the end, or plain disappear. Leaving the hunters thinking there are no birds. I hunt a lot alone, and now I use the dogs as a blockers with a better nose! I use the "field trial" method of training, ( my own description), introduction to game, work on staunch point early, don't infringe on the pace, speed, or range to discourage desire, back in time with experience. Retrieving....my weak point, some hunt dead, some retrieve flawlessly... I have the lab any way, quite possibly the best nose in the bunch. If range scares you, and it does for some people, who don't enjoy the thrill of a dog way out on a line cast, or taking a hedgerow till it finds birds. Heck, some guys can't date a really attractive girl and let her get 30 yards away in a party...confidence.
 
For my style of hunting and to have the best chances of success I like for my dogs to work close. I have lived and hunted in western Kansas since the late 70's and here is what I have found and I am talking strictly pheasant hunting. For those that have pointing dogs that range outside what I consider desirable, I am sure their dogs point a few roosters and they shoot a few. But I kill more roosters than most hunters that I know of out west. When you get in a draw with a bunch of pheasants, anywhere from 20 to 200, a dog that ranges is going to push most every bird to the next county. Some you will see flush some will just sprint right on out undetected. I like that close ranging labrador that will flush birds right in front of me. Although my dog points on occasion. When I shoot them, they are right there to mark the bird and run down any cripple before it gets a chance to get away. Although my dog can trail them a mile if needed. I have had a few years where my son and I have killed 150 plus roosters and maybe loose 2 or 3 birds tops. With the close working dog they simply find the dead or crippled birds much quicker and with much more success.

Having lived in western Kansas, I really never new a local that wanted a dog that worked outside of gun range or owned one that did. Most of the hunters that had dogs that ranged out were not locals but those that made a trip out to hunt. Before I lived out west I shot quite a few and had a few dogs that did get out in front of me, my quail dogs. But once I moved out there and truly began to understand pheasants, I quickly changed the way I hunted and the way I trained my dogs. We never talk at all hunting and always into the wind. I put control into my dog and never have to give a command by voice only whistle. Once I did this, we began killing more roosters.

Didn't want to start a debate, but I find the close ranging dog increases success on pheasants.
 
westksbowhunter said:
For my style of hunting and to have the best chances of success I like for my dogs to work close. I have lived and hunted in western Kansas since the late 70's and here is what I have found and I am talking strictly pheasant hunting. For those that have pointing dogs that range outside what I consider desirable, I am sure their dogs point a few roosters and they shoot a few. But I kill more roosters than most hunters that I know of out west. When you get in a draw with a bunch of pheasants, anywhere from 20 to 200, a dog that ranges is going to push most every bird to the next county. Some you will see flush some will just sprint right on out undetected. I like that close ranging labrador that will flush birds right in front of me. Although my dog points on occasion. When I shoot them, they are right there to mark the bird and run down any cripple before it gets a chance to get away. Although my dog can trail them a mile if needed. I have had a few years where my son and I have killed 150 plus roosters and maybe loose 2 or 3 birds tops. With the close working dog they simply find the dead or crippled birds much quicker and with much more success.

Having lived in western Kansas, I really never new a local that wanted a dog that worked outside of gun range or owned one that did. Most of the hunters that had dogs that ranged out were not locals but those that made a trip out to hunt. Before I lived out west I shot quite a few and had a few dogs that did get out in front of me, my quail dogs. But once I moved out there and truly began to understand pheasants, I quickly changed the way I hunted and the way I trained my dogs. We never talk at all hunting and always into the wind. I put control into my dog and never have to give a command by voice only whistle. Once I did this, we began killing more roosters.

Didn't want to start a debate, but I find the close ranging dog increases success on pheasants.
Click to expand...

I won't disagree. The nuances are what makes me go. I like to see the birds the country, and if a far ranging dog nails one out on a limb, I get a thrill. In these days I hunt the dog and the dogs hunt the birds, when I was younger with leather pants and leather arm sleeves and limits on my mind. I would prefer a short range dog. In the seasons recently past, I hate having to come out of a section, travelled every acre, and see nothing, now the dog does that!
 
If you are hunting in a heavy grass draw with a lot of birds in it, a flushing dog in close is hard to beat. You get out into a big CRP or wheat stubble field, where the birds are few and farther between, I will take the pointing dog.

But for me its the pointing dog work that keeps me going out hunting. I have shot lots of birds, still enjoy shooting some, but its the walking in on a point that is the thrill now.
 
For me, my dogs are happiest when we shoot a lot of birds. The more they get, the happier they are. I start em on birds when they are 8 weeks and it is what drives them til they hit the grave.

Just the opposite for me. When we hit the CRP fields, that is when I really appreciate the close working dogs. It is the CRP fields where the birds double back. I don't know how many times I have went into a CRP field after someone just blew threw it, and end up killing birds. Take your time and keep your dog in close in the CRP and you will shoot more birds.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top