trainer now or later?

B

boombaby

New member
what do you all think.....

i have a 4.5 mo female viz who is a very good dog, bold, birdy and so on.....im stuck in between two options at this point, two trainers, both very good and recommended by many, one is offering 100$/6 sessions, i would be there with him during training days unless i needed to just drop her off and then pick her up later. the second one i could get my pup with this coming spring for a month for 500$.....i am green and want a pro to get her on guns and birds. should i just get the training in now, get her on birds and gun conditioned hunt with her in small cover just the two of us this fall, or would it be better to wait until spring when she is 9-10 months old and get an entire month in with a trainer every day....would it be waiting too long to get her started...all i would be able to do in the meantime is run her in the fields but im afraid thats all it will turn into for her is running in the fields not finding much.
 
JUST my opinion, but...

is puppy.

Let puppy be puppy; find stuff, be clumsy, stumble and fall, do all that kid stuff...learn to scent and track and see what makes you happy.

Too early now. Let her grow and get a sense of being part of your pack, THEN, if you think you should, go to the trainer.


Best wishes
 
I agree with Kismet. Your dog is still a puppy. However, you surely can gun condition the dog yourself. You don't need a trainer for that. I would get her use to gun fire and then take her in the field this fall. Work hard on obedience and then just let her do her thing. It's all a learning experience for her. If you feel you still need a trainer I think the money would be better spent later when the dog is 12-18 months.
 
On the other hand..... there is value to having a professional, getting the pup off to a proper start. As well as a value to being there with the trainer when he is working with your dog. Sounds like an opportunity for you to observe and learn from a professional. The trainers I have spoken to would much rather have the puppy before any permanent damage is done. As there are no guarantees as to how a dog will turn out, I would prefer to err on the side of starting them with a trainer as opposed to sending them to a trainer to correct bad behavior or problems.
 
If I read your post right you can work with a pro 6 times for $100.00 total?
That is a bargain at that price. If you are uncertain on how to go about gun breaking your dog it's worth the money for that alone.
I would pay the pro, listen to what he tells you and enjoy the hunting season with your dog.
 
I agree with this post...$100 is a bargain, especially introducing the dog to the gun. Three of my dogs have had "puppy school" and it's been well worth the expense. And they went to school at 4 months.

Imprinting the dog with birds; a valuable step. The two week school was only about birds, no obedience.

Just my experience...
 
$100 for 6 sessions a bargain

As you said, you're new to this. So go now with the 6 sessions. He isn't going to have the dog staunch and fully trained, but you'll get some great one on one with the dog and trainer. You'll learn as much as the pup. Then next year he'll be ready to finish off before the hunting season.

My pup is now 1-1/2 years. Last late summer/early fall I ran him in the field, we worked on quartering and basic whistle commands, obedience stuff. Took him hunting after breaking him into gunshot. He did fine. Flash pointed a couple birds and we had fun. This summer I spent a lot of time in the field working on conditioning, plus whoa training and retrieving. for the last 3 weeks we worked on two quail per day. He's doign very well and Sunday we shot our first limit of woodcock over solid points.

Two dogs ago I was able to work with the kennel owner in training a dog for me and another someone else. I learned a lot, as I was new to it, too. Don't just drop your pup off. Take the opportunity to learn from the pro.
 
so a little update and still not sure what to do....pup is doing great in the field, finds birds, gets in heavy cover, loves to hunt and find birds, pointing is still not great, bumping alot of birds but these are wild phez so im not upset. i really want to start getting her gun conditioned i just dont have the help needed. i do this on my own and as a registered nurse, my sched is not very consistant so its hard to find help. anyway, the two options still stand, however i have pretty much made up my mind to wait until spring. my concerns are this, will it be too late to start gun intro at that age, would she be too old or would about a one year old pup be ok introducing the gun with....if its going to hinder her much in the long run i can bite the bullet and get her conditioned now i would just rather not spend the extra $ if its not needed yet. any advise, anyone ever start gun conditioning at an older age....again, i would love to do this on my own with some help, its just that the help would not be on a consistant basis.
 
If she is birdy and gets excited when she smells birdy, she is ready. I have shot over 5 month old pups that have no problem. If they are intent on getting that bird they don't even hear the shot, or they associate it with birds and fun. Waiting won't make the dog gun shy. If your dog is birdy now, she will be birdy later and the gunshot is secondary. I think you are worrying a little to much about that. I agree with the other guys about doing the 6 sessions for $100. Ultimately one month with a trainer isn't very long. They just get started with your dog and they take a few weeks to work on basics like listening to them because they are now in charge. You will still need to train/work with your dog after she gets back from the trainer so my suggestion is go to the trainer get a session or two, work on that stuff till you have it down then go back for the next step and so on. Eventually you will learn more about how a dog's brain works and how you can help them succeed. Good luck.
 
Do both. $100 is a bargain, you will end up learning more than the dog and the pup will have a big head start next spring. I pay $50 a session to work with a pro every week and its worth every penny. Every second with your dog is training, with a pup be primarily positive but not permissive. Most importantly Have fun!!

Steve
 
boombaby said:
i really want to start getting her gun conditioned i just dont have the help needed. i do this on my own and as a registered nurse, my sched is not very consistant so its hard to find help. anyway, the two options still stand, however i have pretty much made up my mind to wait until spring. my concerns are this, will it be too late to start gun intro at that age, would she be too old or would about a one year old pup be ok introducing the gun with....if its going to hinder her much in the long run i can bite the bullet and get her conditioned now i would just rather not spend the extra $ if its not needed yet. any advise, anyone ever start gun conditioning at an older age....again, i would love to do this on my own with some help, its just that the help would not be on a consistant basis.
Click to expand...

boombaby, why are you so afraid to do the gun conditioning yourself? It's a rather simple process that you can do yourself. You don't need someone to help you. Here is what I normally do to gun condition my pups. I start by using a .22 pistol but you can even start with a cap gun or a starter's pistol shooting blanks. When I have the dog in the field and they are off a ways from me searching for birds and pre-occupied I will fire the pistol in the opposite direction and watch the dog's reaction. They usually won't even pay much if any attention to it. I repeat this process several times over a couple of times in the field. If the dog isn't responding in a negative way I start firing the pistol closer to them and in their direction. Once the dog is use to this and does not react negatively I go through the same process using a .410 and eventually graduating up to my larger bore guns. By this time the dog should be fully conditioned to the sound of a gun. It's really pretty simple and straight forward. Good luck.
 
Dakotazeb said:
boombaby, why are you so afraid to do the gun conditioning yourself? It's a rather simple process that you can do yourself. You don't need someone to help you. Here is what I normally do to gun condition my pups. I start by using a .22 pistol but you can even start with a cap gun or a starter's pistol shooting blanks. When I have the dog in the field and they are off a ways from me searching for birds and pre-occupied I will fire the pistol in the opposite direction and watch the dog's reaction. They usually won't even pay much if any attention to it. I repeat this process several times over a couple of times in the field. If the dog isn't responding in a negative way I start firing the pistol closer to them and in their direction. Once the dog is use to this and does not react negatively I go through the same process using a .410 and eventually graduating up to my larger bore guns. By this time the dog should be fully conditioned to the sound of a gun. It's really pretty simple and straight forward. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Even better if the dog is chasing birds.
 
boombaby said:
so a little update and still not sure what to do....pup is doing great in the field, finds birds, gets in heavy cover, loves to hunt and find birds, pointing is still not great, bumping alot of birds but these are wild phez so im not upset. i really want to start getting her gun conditioned i just dont have the help needed. i do this on my own and as a registered nurse, my sched is not very consistant so its hard to find help. anyway, the two options still stand, however i have pretty much made up my mind to wait until spring. my concerns are this, will it be too late to start gun intro at that age, would she be too old or would about a one year old pup be ok introducing the gun with....if its going to hinder her much in the long run i can bite the bullet and get her conditioned now i would just rather not spend the extra $ if its not needed yet. any advise, anyone ever start gun conditioning at an older age....again, i would love to do this on my own with some help, its just that the help would not be on a consistant basis.
Click to expand...


You are fine. Don't over-think this whole deal. :) Heck, the beginning of "gun conditioning" is dropping pots in the kitchen.:D

A cap gun in the yard, when the dog is in the house...all sorts of noises...the whole deal is to make it just another noise, then when the hunting work starts, the dog will go on about its business because it is used to extraneous loud noise in the background.

Won't take long before the sound of a shotgun will have the dog looking for a bird. Heck, won't be long before the dog starts getting excited when you pick up your shotgun. Enjoy this time; don't fret about it.

Gonna be fun, it is. Relax...there is no fixed schedule.
 
Puppies are like kids, they soak up so much when they are young. While you should let puppy be puppy, teaching obedience can be a game at this age, but instills the conditioned response. If a 65-70 lb 9-10 month old pup already knows the basics, whether you send to a professional or not, your hunting partner is so far ahead. Bill Hillmann has some highly recommended dvd's.
 
save the money do it yourself you and the dog will have a better bond and you will be able to read the dog better in the field and if you do it yourself your dog will respond better to you your already started if she likes birds its all down hill from there
 
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