The truth about Prairie Storm

Big fan of the old rooster rockets as well called them myself. All copper plated federal red boxes.. wing shok. Call it what ya want. I do think prairie storms pattern a bit tighter therefore I hace about 2 boxes and my 4 shell from mid December out is PS. The only real down fall I had with PS that was leads me to look else where is the feather pull. Them Saturn pellets pull alot.... just my .2 cents. Maybe they are close shots or what not. Wish they would start producing the wing shok or red box. Rooster rockets. Again. Prairie storm ain't needed
 
Be careful with a myth or misunderstanding about round projectiles and velocity.

While it is true that a sphere moving at a higher initial velocity slows down at a faster rate than a sphere with a lower initial velocity, the sphere with the higher initial velocity will be moving faster than the slower starting projectile at any given distance from the muzzle (until they reach a velocity of zero.

There is no way that the slower starting projectile passes the faster starting projectile.

In other words, a size #4 pellet launched at 1500 fps will be moving faster and with greater energy at 40 yards than a #4 pellet launched at 1300 fps.
John, I don't think I mentioned any myth or misunderstanding. I simply stated that a fast shotcloud slows down much quicker than a slower one. And though it's true that the slow one will never pass the faster one, the speeds get MUCH closer the further from the muzzle, and I want to remind hunters that a faster fps at the muzzle is not necessarily a good indicator of being able to shoot game birds at a farther range. Although modern shotcups and buffering of the load help hold patterns together, high velocity still tends to spread patterns no bones about it. Not to mention an increase in velocity brings a sharp rise in recoil, and whether you notice it or not, it has a negative impact on ones shooting, causing flinching and/or head lifting. If you shoot lead 1500 fps seems to me way overloaded. If you shoot an inferior material like steel (iron) then I can see it because of the lack of density in the shot. And for those shooting fixed breech guns (pumps and break actions) the recoil is a bigger issue. Federal sells a 1 3/8oz. shell at 1500fps. 😬 With a gas gun probably tolerable, but with an o/u those would knock your teeth loose! When pass shooting, blocking, or in general trying to stretch the range of a shotgun an increase in pellet size is much preferable to an increase in velocity.

Just my opinion, and I always keep an open mind
 
My dad hunted waterfowl. I have a lot of his very dated waterfowl loads. All were standard high base. If it worked then, it'll work now.
John, I don't think I mentioned any myth or misunderstanding. I simply stated that a fast shotcloud slows down much quicker than a slower one. And though it's true that the slow one will never pass the faster one, the speeds get MUCH closer the further from the muzzle, and I want to remind hunters that a faster fps at the muzzle is not necessarily a good indicator of being able to shoot game birds at a farther range. Although modern shotcups and buffering of the load help hold patterns together, high velocity still tends to spread patterns no bones about it. Not to mention an increase in velocity brings a sharp rise in recoil, and whether you notice it or not, it has a negative impact on ones shooting, causing flinching and/or head lifting. If you shoot lead 1500 fps seems to me way overloaded. If you shoot an inferior material like steel (iron) then I can see it because of the lack of density in the shot. And for those shooting fixed breech guns (pumps and break actions) the recoil is a bigger issue. Federal sells a 1 3/8oz. shell at 1500fps. 😬 With a gas gun probably tolerable, but with an o/u those would knock your teeth loose! When pass shooting, blocking, or in general trying to stretch the range of a shotgun an increase in pellet size is much preferable to an increase in velocity.

Just my opinion, and I always keep an open mind
This same law of physics applies to big game cartridges.
 
Here's a copy/paste from the "lead deuces" thread...
Just out of curiosity, I checked my ballistics program to see how much effective pellet range you gain by bumping the muzzle velocity from 1300 to 1500 fps, which for any given load weight increases recoil nearly 30%.
With #2 lead, it only gains you 8 yds on a goose (& is, of course, illegal). Whereas simply increasing to #1 lead at 1300 gains you 11 yds.
With #5 lead, it only gains you 6 yds on a pheasant. Whereas simply increasing to #4 lead at 1300 gains you 12 yds.
With #3 steel, it only gains you 5 yds on a pheasant. Whereas simply increasing to #2 steel at 1300 gains you 8 yds.
Usually it's much easier to increase effective range & maintain a decent pattern (& easier on your shoulder) by increasing 1 shot size.
 
I saw that guy shoot a couple times in person before he died. My Father went to high school with him.

He was 100% a Benelli guy too.
Nice connection to him Gim. I would have loved to seen Tom shoot in-person. He is a person that perfected his "trade". I wonder how many cases of shells he shot annually, or in his life, it would be a staggering amount!
 
Nice connection to him Gim. I would have loved to seen Tom shoot in-person. He is a person that perfected his "trade". I wonder how many cases of shells he shot annually, or in his life, it would be a staggering amount!
I saw him once do a trick shot thing with a pistol grip shotgun. No stock. Do you know how hard it is to be accurate with a pistol grip shotgun? They're not designed to shoot flying clays. He still made it work.
 
I continue to state that a more-than-adequate load to kill almost any pheasant one deserves to get, is the Remington Express 16 gauge 1 1/8 ounce load of 5's or 6's. It drops 'em dead if you hit them right. If you DON'T hit them right, nothing works well.
 
Jon,
16 gauge. 2-3/4". 1 oz. #4 bismuth. 1,350 fps.
I think you are on to something. After doing a ton of research Boss may be "The" Boss I bought 3 boxes. I like the lighter load for my old SxS. Haven't tried them yet,. snow storms in SD stopped that this year.
 
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John, I don't think I mentioned any myth or misunderstanding. I simply stated that a fast shotcloud slows down much quicker than a slower one. And though it's true that the slow one will never pass the faster one, the speeds get MUCH closer the further from the muzzle, and I want to remind hunters that a faster fps at the muzzle is not necessarily a good indicator of being able to shoot game birds at a farther range. Although modern shotcups and buffering of the load help hold patterns together, high velocity still tends to spread patterns no bones about it. Not to mention an increase in velocity brings a sharp rise in recoil, and whether you notice it or not, it has a negative impact on ones shooting, causing flinching and/or head lifting. If you shoot lead 1500 fps seems to me way overloaded. If you shoot an inferior material like steel (iron) then I can see it because of the lack of density in the shot. And for those shooting fixed breech guns (pumps and break actions) the recoil is a bigger issue. Federal sells a 1 3/8oz. shell at 1500fps. 😬 With a gas gun probably tolerable, but with an o/u those would knock your teeth loose! When pass shooting, blocking, or in general trying to stretch the range of a shotgun an increase in pellet size is much preferable to an increase in velocity.

Just my opinion, and I always keep an open mind

Bob, I very much agree with much of what you are saying.

I do think there is an limit for velocity of each shot type. For example, lead shot velocity is most effective at velocities between 1200 and 1350 fps. Steel shot seems most effective between 1350 and 1450 fps.

Higher velocities greatly increase recoil with little or no benefit.

I have always felt that nothing positive comes to your shooting from recoil. Increased recoil negatively impacts shooting.
 
I get 5-6 birds a day hunting with my dad for 5 days straight, flushing birds without a dog. I need guaranteed killing power at distance and I need to sling a lot of lead. I've a lot of experience at multi-shot patterning technique- also know as skybusting, scattergunning or fire for effect. Therefore PS 3" #5s are my go to load out that I am confident in.

This goes along with needing a very soft shooting auto so I am desperate to get my Rem Versamax back in action. It went out this year again and I ended up running a Winchester SXP pump synthetic. I was black, blue, yellow, green and purple from the crook of my elbow to the knob on my collarbone. I did my best to keep the flinching down but some of the last few birds had to be taken from the hip.

I shoot a lot of birds over corn and a few times I've see a rain of pellets hitting the corn stalks a second after a hitting a bird going away. It happened most often when shooting lighter shells and it left me with the impression of them bouncing off the bird.

I'm sure I recall seeing a gunsmith that patterned turkey loads and chokes using thin metal aluminum plates. Not only would he count the number of pellet strikes, he would also micrometer the depth of the indentations in the head area with something like a bore gauge when testing at long ranges. This gave him both pattern density and penetration data. He put chokes through multiple guns and multiple loads and produced a very thorough cross section of gun/choke/load combinations that customers would pay money for. He would also produce a custom data set for a requested combination for a small fee for people who wanted to see a trial run of a combo before they made a purchase. That's something I would love to see with some common pheasant loads.
 
Have enjoyed this thread; If you take the time to scour through a few hundred Randy Wakeman articles under his wing shooting tab, there are articles that cover everything brought up here; spherical vs non spherical pellets; penetration and strikes required on game birds; the energy/penetration at distance to insure a clean kill; his data against Tom Roeser’s lead shot to steel shot size (Wakeman uses data to suggest dropping 3 sizes in steel to the equivalent lead shot); shot hardness & plating, etc. plenty of other good Wakeman reviews worth a read.
Confidence in gun and ammo was mentioned earlier & I agree - a huge intangible
Then there’s the hunting conditions and each hunters shooting style - and the ammo selection to match
I prefer close ranging dogs, so they are trained accordingly; therefore 3/4 of our flushes are within 25 yards - and most of those closer; IC & 5 shot are the first two loads; 4 shot the next three. Buying good ammo does make a difference, especially at distance.
 
Most times (for shots, say, 40 yds or less), I agree with Wakeman's suggestion that with steel, you go 3 shot sizes bigger than lead.
Tom Roster's 2 size rule simply isn't sufficient much of the time.
But for longer shots (45-55 yds), even 3 sizes isn't enough.
By the math, you have to go 5 sizes bigger! If muzzle velocity is the same.
Or you can go 4 sizes & increase muzzle velocity 150-200 fps (which much of the time is the case with factory steel load velocity).
Those are the 2 most realistic ways to achieve 1.5" of ballistic gel penetration (commonly accepted as the required penetration for ducks/pheasants) on those longer shots. 2-3 sizes doesn't cut it. Lead is so ballistically superior to steel, it's not even funny. (It really isn't.)
 
I get 5-6 birds a day hunting with my dad for 5 days straight, flushing birds without a dog. I need guaranteed killing power at distance and I need to sling a lot of lead. I've a lot of experience at multi-shot patterning technique- also know as skybusting, scattergunning or fire for effect. Therefore PS 3" #5s are my go to load out that I am confident in.

This goes along with needing a very soft shooting auto so I am desperate to get my Rem Versamax back in action. It went out this year again and I ended up running a Winchester SXP pump synthetic. I was black, blue, yellow, green and purple from the crook of my elbow to the knob on my collarbone. I did my best to keep the flinching down but some of the last few birds had to be taken from the hip.

I shoot a lot of birds over corn and a few times I've see a rain of pellets hitting the corn stalks a second after a hitting a bird going away. It happened most often when shooting lighter shells and it left me with the impression of them bouncing off the bird.

I'm sure I recall seeing a gunsmith that patterned turkey loads and chokes using thin metal aluminum plates. Not only would he count the number of pellet strikes, he would also micrometer the depth of the indentations in the head area with something like a bore gauge when testing at long ranges. This gave him both pattern density and penetration data. He put chokes through multiple guns and multiple loads and produced a very thorough cross section of gun/choke/load combinations that customers would pay money for. He would also produce a custom data set for a requested combination for a small fee for people who wanted to see a trial run of a combo before they made a purchase. That's something I would love to see with some common pheasant loads.
Pete don't take this personal please but 6 oz of lead in the air is not a substitute for 1.25 well placed. Learn your affective range and don't skybust. A bird will die of gang green with one shot in it.
 
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