The Hatch Doesn't Matter.

OK, this is open for comment. assuming Niceshots point is taken. How then do you justify a cool season (DNC) dense nesting cover planting vs. a Warm Season critical winter cover grass planting. Assuming Niceshots point, the critical survival habitat would rank higher than DNC. (DNC is supposed to be better for nesting and brood rearing but is of non issue based on Niceshots theory.

Comments?
 
I can't see where cool season grass nesting cover can be better then warm season grass cover. Assuming that prior years plant material is intact. [not burned off or mowed].

Besides, have you seen a warm season grass field that hasn't got cool season grass mixed in? I haven't. Almost impossible to keep out prairie June grass.
 
Factors in Pheasant Numbers

moellermd said:
So I get that the hatch numbers are consistant. I had always thought it was chick survival the mattered in the fall.
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Ditto. I thought chick survival was the biggest factor. Don't environmental factors, e.g, temps, moisture, droughts, brood cover, etc., also impact the number of clutches a single hen will produce in one breeding season?
 
I thought the biologist hunters on here would have explained this by now. Hen pheasants only have one mating per season. IF she is successful in that mating. All she needs is 1 chick to reach maturity and she will not remate/renest. But IF they are ALL are wiped out. She will have another batch of chicks. That is why you see some birds in the early season not fully colored out. This idea of have hens 2 hatches a year is a myth. She will only do it if the above conditions are encountered. Quail hens will have 2-3 hatches per season, each with a different male...........Bob
 
So let me get straight. The more hens that survive the winter the more pheasants chicks you will have in the Spring, regardless of nesting habitat? So that means you need more winter habitat correct? I read this somewhere a while back. That Winter habitat is more important!!! It is pretty self explanatory , that if you have 10 hens with a average of 6 chicks or 20 hens with a average of 6 chicks, that you will have more birds with the 20 hens than the 10 hens!!!!
 
bobeyerite said:
I thought the biologist hunters on here would have explained this by now. Hen pheasants only have one mating per season. IF she is successful in that mating. All she needs is 1 chick to reach maturity and she will not remate/renest. But IF they are ALL are wiped out. She will have another batch of chicks. That is why you see some birds in the early season not fully colored out. This idea of have hens 2 hatches a year is a myth. She will only do it if the above conditions are encountered. Quail hens will have 2-3 hatches per season, each with a different male...........Bob
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Bobeye, I see this as being a whole different thread. Issue is not about renests but hen mortality vs. brood mortality and we assume that there is a brood.

Another way to look at it is does a landowner select winter cover or spring nesting cover as the priority.

I've heard in SD that the shortage is winter cover but PF pushes DNC pretty heavy.
 
UGUIDE said:
Bobeye, I see this as being a whole different thread. Issue is not about renests but hen mortality vs. brood mortality and we assume that there is a brood.

Another way to look at it is does a landowner select winter cover or spring nesting cover as the priority.

I've heard in SD that the shortage is winter cover but PF pushes DNC pretty heavy.
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Two years ago in the PF magazine they wrote about this issue. In my part of the world, SE SD and NW IA, the best thing they said you could do for pheasant habitat was save a cattail slough. Heavy winter cover was they key factor.
 
moellermd said:
Two years ago in the PF magazine they wrote about this issue. In my part of the world, SE SD and NW IA, the best thing they said you could do for pheasant habitat was save a cattail slough. Heavy winter cover was they key factor.
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And yet even this winter those cattail sloughs fell short in many cases. I would then advocate that the 3-5 acre milo food plots left up over winter could provide food AND cover in the event of winters like last.

All my plots fell flat after thrid week of season and were of no use. I did not fert and herb but this year I did.

Beyond that cover trees were the next safe narbor for pheasants.

Good info. Keep it coming.
 
Quote; Bobeye, I see this as being a whole different thread. Issue is not about renests but hen mortality vs. brood mortality and we assume that there is a brood.

See Chris you missed my point, I was trying to point out if the brood was total mortality. she would go back and have another brood.............Bob
 
A good hen to rooster ratio going into Winter.
Good Winter and storm cover.
Close by food source.
= good hen survival.

Then
Good nesting and brood cover.
Favorable weather during nesting and young birds.
= a good hunt come Fall. :thumbsup:
 
UGUIDE said:
And yet even this winter those cattail sloughs fell short in many cases. I would then advocate that the 3-5 acre milo food plots left up over winter could provide food AND cover in the event of winters like last .
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I guess I would disagree on that one. Corn fields were blown in 30 rows. No use for anything. Bigger cattail sloughs were only blown in 20-30 feet. You could still even hunt them.
 
moellermd said:
I guess I would disagree on that one. Corn fields were blown in 30 rows. No use for anything. Bigger cattail sloughs were only blown in 20-30 feet. You could still even hunt them.
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Most cattail slough I saw were all filled in all the way across no matter size. Most fields had at lease a foot of snow depth all the way across, picked or un picked.

My neighbor on east far had 3 3 acre milo food plots south of trees and he wintered 300 pheasant all winter in his trees a plots. They did not winter in refuge south east of plots where cattails were because they were filled in.

the milo plots I saw that were done well had seed heads up on top of drifted snow. They are denser than corn so they don;t fill in as many rows as corn and catch snow better.

MD, I agree to disagree:cheers:
 
That is a debate, the cats offer cover in bad weather, but on an extream year, they kill all of the birds. Because they do fill shut over night, rock hard, burrying them alive with no escape. Thats the reason we lost all our birds 10 or whatever years ago.we had 25" over night, on top of 80+, with sustained 50 mile an hr wind. I drove a sno-cat for the trails, and that thing had trouble that year. All there was was a few brown fuzzy tops sticking out every where around here. And you could walk on it.
 
Standing corn fields get credit for successfully Wintering a lot of birds. :)
 
Out here we have Wheat, Oats and Barley for crops. So the only cover is CRP and a heavy type bush growth The bushes believe it or not give the pheasants excellent cover in the harsh winter weather...........Bob
 
Bob, they got a thing called firebush or kochia back here and it is great for winter cover. Stands up to snow and ice.

The corn is good for food source but I would be surprised if bords will roost in it overnight.

I have seen birds roost in milo plots when there normail grass roosting ocver is gone or filled in.
 
From the pictures, they are either the Snow Berry or Red Osier Dogwood. I hope I am right on this........Bob
 
In Eastern MT, Westwen ND, there's very little corn. Brushy coulees, heavy weeds and heavy cover along creeks are very important pheasant Winter cover. Grasslands are mostly short grass and offer little cover during snowy times.
 
Lots of DNC results in:

1. Less re-nesting
2. Less stress on hens - stronger hen population.
3. Larger/stronger/older "chicks" going into Fall/Winter

Lots of WC results in:

1. Protection of the Fall carryover = less stress on hens going into Spring

I see the two types of cover as synergistic - one helps the other and vise- versa

We can only control habitat - so drill, drill, drill - SEEDS! Mother Nature controls all the other variables.

With very good DNC and WC we could see:

1. Brood counts go from 6.2 up to 6.6
2. Hen carryover go from 20% up to 45%+

Lots of strong hens is the key to making sure we are over-run by pheasants!

DNC is good CRP grass

Good WC is:

1. Farmyards
2. Cattails
3. Standing crops
4. Small trees/brush
5. Very tall/healthy CRP
 
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