save the elk

1pheas4

1pheas4

Moderator
Just a warning to anyone interested in checking this site out;

It's graphic.:eek: There's a number of videos and a slide show of the damage wolves do through "sport/recreational" killing of big game and livestock.

I found it interesting. I've been hearing about how devastating the wolves have been in many areas on livestock and big game animals, this site goes into detail on the matter.

There's a study from the 1960's in Alaska that found when wolves are in a "contained" area they wipe out all big game (as we already know) then begin to eat each other resulting in now big game and no wolves.

http://www.saveelk.com/
 
Balance in nature is seldom easily or cleanly achieved....especially when once out of balance, when one is dealing with livelhoods in ranching or hunting and, when traditional hatreds and fears come to the front.
Personally, I'd like to see wolves slam the deer in Ohio...reckon we could import a few from the U.P.?
 
I'll just add this. You guys think what you want.

No question just a few years ago arguably the best Non Resident License in the lower 48 would be the Montana Big Game Combination License and the Non Resident Elk Combination License. Statewide general elk, statewide general deer, either sex either species. Statewide gamebird and fishing. Besides that! archery hunters could go statewide hunting for big game with about a $5 dollar or so archery tag and STILL rifle hunt if they chose to. AND ALWAYS sold out by the 15 of March.

AND the Montana Deer and Elk seasons go for about 5 weeks! HOLY CRAP!!

Odds of drawing this license ran about 30-40 percent, bonus points were about the only hope for a better chance in future drawing.

Guess what happened? You all can right now get either Combination license, there are at least 3,000 left. Why, hunter success is VERY limited. YUP, big game in mountains of Western Montana are now being managed for the Canadian Wolves. GO ahead, study up on it.:cheers:
 
Montana had a wolf season last Fall, Didn't get to the quota.
This year trapping will be allowed. Trouble is just about no one knows how to trap wolves. The few that can figure it out are still only allowed one tag.

Minnesota has plans for it's first wolf season this Fall. With 4,000 gray wolves it's about 20 years to late.

Both MT and MN will have nonresident licenses, come get em.:thumbsup:
 
jsdriggs said:
We will gladly send you a few, IF, you send a few more to Central Park. We are about over 'em out here!
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Would that I could ship deer.

Don't misunderstand, I think wolf issues should be handled on a local basis by local folks who live with a growing problem, a problem to which most others outside the wolf areas can not relate.
Same as with deer and those who follow them and what they have crippled in Ohio.

I simply believe there is far too much hate, incitement and/or misuderstanding on both sides of the issue for any developed consenus which would help strike a balance.

I'd bet a large donughnut that deer hunters in Ohio would spit and sputter if deer feeders were banned, yet increasing nest predators seems of little concern in their fixed focus on G2s...balance twixt critters is a widespread issue and few are willing to take a backward step to achieve that balance.
More sad that.
 
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Their have been studies that have shown that cow elk will actually abort their calves from the stress of wolves in the area. The wolve season in Montana was liberalized this summer so more wolves hopefully will be taken. Most Montanas realize wolves to be the formidable predator they are, however, with alot of transplants from other states out in western Montana who's idea of mother nature documentary is watching the movie Bambi, these people do not have a clue as to what wolves can do not only to elk, but to livestock as well. When it comes to wolves....they are like Camels.....smoke a pack a day!!!
 
jsdriggs said:
People with opinions on wolves who dont live with them, would be like me telling a farmer not to plow under his CRP because it is bad for roosters. It his issue and decision. He is best at deciding what to do.
Dubliner is right.... local decision.

Remember, these are Canadian Gray Wolves. A far cry of the native wolf that was already here before they did their introduction. Bigger by far. These wolves should have NEVER been put here. At least now , Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming are going to be responsible for their management. We'll do our best to keep them in check.
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Really i could care less what happens to them........ as long as it is done legally. That I can have an opinion on. Most of these sites do themselves no favors because they end up pining to the tin foil crowd. I read through a few the last couple of days. Really this is all is a socialist conspiracy theory meant to drive ranchers from their land and take our guns away. One site even said this was done so the western US could be given to the United Nations:eek:That was on more than one site. Many sites talked about exorbitant rancher losses, that were refuted 10-1 on most other sights that were not seemingly pro-wolf but seemed to be stating facts. Many sites quoted newspaper articles from 150 years ago stating people were afraid to go into the woods because of wolves. I didn't see much credibility in many of the sites. Too much conspiracy theory for me. I'm sure if you live in an area with wolves, it is of a concern. Your right I would not understand that.
 
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There are silly extremists both sides of the fence as far as the Canadian wolf is concerned.

Fact is, the introduction of Canadian Wolves into the US was a decision made by the USF&W service not the local people. If you want to study the program from the start. When the wolf population reached a certain number of breeding pairs, states would be given authority to manage them. Wolf populations reached that goal in just a couple years, USF&W kept the wolves listed until they spread into areas their not wanted and still expanding.
Anyway the Big game populations have plummeted, MT hunter numbers have dropped way off.
Funny thing. USF&W used hunter generated money, millions of it to take away hunting from alot of hunters.

We have more gray wolves in Minnesota then all other states combined. MN will hold it's first wolf hunting season in a loooong time this Fall. It's a legislative action so I don't think a judge can overturn it?
 
Have you been living in a cave???? Nah.....their are no activist judges out there!!! I bet their are several that dream of a situation like this, bless there little progressive hearts...and even smaller minds....it is not what we the people want anymore, it is what the powers that be mandate to us.
 
mnmthunting said:
There are silly extremists both sides of the fence as far as the Canadian wolf is concerned.

Fact is, the introduction of Canadian Wolves into the US was a decision made by the USF&W service not the local people. If you want to study the program from the start. When the wolf population reached a certain number of breeding pairs, states would be given authority to manage them. Wolf populations reached that goal in just a couple years, USF&W kept the wolves listed until they spread into areas their not wanted and still expanding.
Anyway the Big game populations have plummeted, MT hunter numbers have dropped way off.
Funny thing. USF&W used hunter generated money, millions of it to take away hunting from alot of hunters.

We have more gray wolves in Minnesota then all other states combined. MN will hold it's first wolf hunting season in a loooong time this Fall. It's a legislative action so I don't think a judge can overturn it?
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Good anaylisis.:10sign:
 
What I can not understand is why people who probably have never even been to Montana, can tell us here what will happen with our state. They have made such a mess of their own states..i.e...New York, Mass. New Jersey, California, ..ect. yet, for some reason they have the wisdom to tell us how to manage our lands. From mineral exploration to wildlife, seems congress and certain presidential administrations think they know what is best for us. At one time there were grizzly's in California, so maybe we should send a few back there from up here in Montana. Also, all those fancy ocean front houses along the east coast, why do we not tear them down and restore the coast to its former self? Everybody thinks they know whats best for the other guy it seems...we Montanas love our state and take great pride in what God has given us, we know we are blessed to live in such an enviroment, but please, let us make decisions that effect us, not some partisan lawmaker or some ideolog judge. Remember, our enviroment has changed drastically in the last 150 years, the elk were once plain animals along with the grizzly's, now they are mountain dwellers for the most part, Im guessing the elk had a better chance against the wolves out on the plains where the snow wasnt stacked so high and visability was alot further.
 
jsdriggs said:
People with opinions on wolves who dont live with them, would be like me telling a farmer not to plow under his CRP because it is bad for roosters. It his issue and decision. He is best at deciding what to do.
Dubliner is right.... local decision.

Remember, these are Canadian Gray Wolves. A far cry of the native wolf that was already here before they did their introduction. Bigger by far. These wolves should have NEVER been put here. At least now , Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming are going to be responsible for their management. We'll do our best to keep them in check.
Click to expand...

I'm sure at some point, they'll be needing tax money from me for this.
 
Just came home from SW Montana, Stayed near Gardiner, my host told me some interesting info on the elk heard near there....only 9% of the calves survive nowdays, you see elk in areas where you never saw them prior to wolves, near ranches, town, they are looking for protection from the wolves. The ranch I hunt on near Big Timber, has more elk now then years before due to elk being pushed out of other areas, not the way I want to see the population grow. Hope if you are able, you buy a Montana wolf tag and fill it!!!
 
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