Salt Creek Bismuth??

[A5 Sweet 16]

I'd really, really like to try Salt Creek Custom Ammunition, who will not only do #4 bismuth in 16 gauge, but will do a true 1-1/8 oz load (as opposed to Hevi's version that weighs barely over an ounce). But Salt Creek's prices are unjustifiable for me. A strong 50% more than Boss. Has anyone tried them? Or would anyone buy me some to try? 50 shells would make a nice starter kit. TIA.

 

[Golden Hour]

Ask Santa

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Ask Santa

Santamara is, in fact, a major stumbling block when it comes to buying lots of super neat & very expensive shells.

 

[Bob Peters]

Ask Santa

Maybe forget about Santa, order some yourself, destroy/delete any and all reciepts, and if Santa still finds out play dumb?

 

[Kre]

I'd just stick with Boss. I shoot a bunch of their 16 gauge bismuth and 1 ounce is all it takes.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

I'd just stick with Boss. I shoot a bunch of their 16 gauge bismuth and 1 ounce is all it takes.

It is, most of the time. What I really wish, for late, late season, is that somebody would part with a bunch of their old 1-1/4 oz Tungsten Matrix loads in #5. But nobody seems to want to give them up, even though they never shoot them.

 

[Wind River]

Sorry A5, I think of them as collector items. Just gratifying having them, if I feel the need. Include me in that elite group.

 

[Bob Peters]

It is, most of the time. What I really wish, for late, late season, is that somebody would part with a bunch of their old 1-1/4 oz Tungsten Matrix loads in #5. But nobody seems to want to give them up, even though they never shoot them.

What do I have to do to get you to leave that old Belgium made browning in the safe for late season and pick up a lovely 12 gauge punt gun???

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

What do I have to do to get you to leave that old Belgium made browning in the safe for late season and pick up a lovely 12 gauge punt gun???

Impossible!! I love it too much. (Actually, mine's 1990 - Japanese.)

 

[airmedic1]

I'd really, really like to try Salt Creek Custom Ammunition, who will not only do #4 bismuth in 16 gauge, but will do a true 1-1/8 oz load (as opposed to Hevi's version that weighs barely over an ounce). But Salt Creek's prices are unjustifiable for me. A strong 50% more than Boss. Has anyone tried them? Or would anyone buy me some to try? 50 shells would make a nice starter kit. TIA.

Boy that stuff is expensive!

 

[KEOutdoors]

I'd really, really like to try Salt Creek Custom Ammunition, who will not only do #4 bismuth in 16 gauge, but will do a true 1-1/8 oz load (as opposed to Hevi's version that weighs barely over an ounce). But Salt Creek's prices are unjustifiable for me. A strong 50% more than Boss. Has anyone tried them? Or would anyone buy me some to try? 50 shells would make a nice starter kit. TIA.

Hi all, new here and while surfing the forums I saw this topic.

I know Keith, the owner of salt creek. While their ammo is expensive you have to realize just how attentive to detail he is when making these. They are not loaded on commercial equipment in mass quantities like others, they are hand loaded one by one. He pressure tests, patterns, and chronographs each load before making it available. And if the shell isnt perfect, it isnt going in the box.

Now, boss makes a very competitive priced shell. I have not shot their 16ga, only 12 and 20 so take this for what it is worth (not much). Every boss shell i have patterned has been very... well... not good. Speed all over the place and very blotchy patterns in our 4 guns, with several chokes. But, they kill birds if you connect... very well.

I have been shooting my 20ga for the last few years, and have done VERY well with 7/8 and 1oz bismuth 4s. Bismuth really likes choke, so I see no reason you 'need' more than 1oz. Just choke it way down for conditions where the shots can be long. I have achieved some very wicked 7/8oz bismuth 4 patterns out to 50-60 yards with XFull chokes. I would not start less than IM choke unless you are shooting 20-30yd shots in which case you probably dont want 4s.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

I have been shooting my 20ga for the last few years, and have done VERY well with 7/8 and 1oz bismuth 4s. Bismuth really likes choke, so I see no reason you 'need' more than 1oz. Just choke it way down for conditions where the shots can be long. I have achieved some very wicked 7/8oz bismuth 4 patterns out to 50-60 yards with XFull chokes. I would not start less than IM choke unless you are shooting 20-30yd shots in which case you probably dont want 4s.

During any given hunt, I may get 20 yd shots or 50+ yd shots. Have to be prepared for either, which means worst case, which with 16 ga bismuth means 1 oz #4. Tight pattern at close range isn't appropriate, so I usually shoot MOD. Which is why I'd really prefer to thicken up my pattern a hair at longer ranges with 1-1/8 oz loads, especially when there's a ton of snow on the ground & roosters are falling in the nastiest stuff possible. At that point, deader is better. But not 50% more expensive than Boss better. Someday I'll try Salt Creek though.

 

[KEOutdoors]

During any given hunt, I may get 20 yd shots or 50+ yd shots. Have to be prepared for either, which means worst case, which with 16 ga bismuth means 1 oz #4. Tight pattern at close range isn't appropriate, so I usually shoot MOD. Which is why I'd really prefer to thicken up my pattern a hair at longer ranges with 1-1/8 oz loads, especially when there's a ton of snow on the ground & roosters are falling in the nastiest stuff possible. At that point, deader is better. But not 50% more expensive than Boss better. Someday I'll try Salt Creek though.

I get that, and completely understand. I tend to pattern my shells tight, then try my best to head shoot the close slow birds... or let them get out until they are flying straight and more appropriate for my choke. Worst thing in the world while pheasant hunting is shooting too open of a pattern and ending up just breaking wing tips and having dogs chasing a running bird around the field the rest of the day. But a tight bismuth pattern can really mess up a bird as far as edibility.

If you hit the pattern board, you probably notice that bismuth loves choke. Its not round like lead and less dense, so it opens up quick with wind resistance.. but it also is soft enough that it responds well to choking. Just as a general rule ive noticed bismuth patterns about 2 chokes more open than lead. A full choke bismuth pattern will equal a lead shot modified at 40 yards.

I dont think youll even notice a meaningful difference between 1 1/8 and 1oz 4s as far as an open choke now killing at a farther range with more shot, its only 20 pellets.. but that would depend on the actual choke and pattern i suppose.

 

[Bob Peters]

I get that, and completely understand. I tend to pattern my shells tight, then try my best to head shoot the close slow birds... or let them get out until they are flying straight and more appropriate for my choke. Worst thing in the world while pheasant hunting is shooting too open of a pattern and ending up just breaking wing tips and having dogs chasing a running bird around the field the rest of the day. But a tight bismuth pattern can really mess up a bird as far as edibility.

If you hit the pattern board, you probably notice that bismuth loves choke. Its not round like lead and less dense, so it opens up quick with wind resistance.. but it also is soft enough that it responds well to choking. Just as a general rule ive noticed bismuth patterns about 2 chokes more open than lead. A full choke bismuth pattern will equal a lead shot modified at 40 yards.

I dont think youll even notice a meaningful difference between 1 1/8 and 1oz 4s as far as an open choke now killing at a farther range with more shot, its only 20 pellets.. but that would depend on the actual choke and pattern i suppose.

20 pellets is 20 pellets. Especially when you're dealing with a subgauge load. On wild birds. On public land. After they've been hunted for 2 months hard. It's kinda the reason a lot of guys declare with a tinge of pride that they hunt all season long with a 20 or 28 gauge. Ammo these days guys are shooting ounce an'a quarter out of 20s an in some cases stuffing over an ounce in 28ga shells. The line between gauges has definitely been blurred. Bismuth isn't round like lead? That's a new one.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Most bismuth I've seen is round like lead, & without all the deformation at setback & through choke constriction, my experience has been that it patterns a hair tighter than unplated or even copper plated lead on average. Depends somewhat on the gun/load/choke combination. The exception would be Hevishot's bismuth. Some of it was sort of egg shaped, or even tear drop. One more reason it's inferior, in my view, & I make use of my opportunities to give it less than glowing reviews. Hevi really pissed me off.

Experience has also taught me that if you're ready to shoot a rooster at 20-25 yds, you shoot it, because it's likely your best shot. So I best be somewhat appropriately choked. Waiting not only increases the chance of a cripple, it increases the chance of a miss, neither of which are good things. For me, anyway. Waiting allows my active brain a chance to become too involved.

My videos have shown something I find kind of neat. I typically feel reasonably calm when shooting a rooster. But on birds when I actually recall thinking, "Oh, I've got time on this one. I'll wait a bit," the videos reveal that the shot process still happens very quickly & that if I wait at all, it's only for a matter of 5 yds or so (10 max). Those birds usually die hard deaths. I think the explanation is that these are usually, strait-aways (or nearly straight-away), which don't permit shot penetration as well as a more crossing type angle. In super thick cover, it's unwise for me to take a straight-away past 35 yds or so. Not hard to put 'em on the ground, but recovery becomes less likely, even with the most experienced dogs. I suppose if I hunted with a pointer, I'd see more real close straight-aways, & therefore more waiting. Especially if I "hunted" flare nares that'd just been released that morning & needed the persuasion of a boot in the ass in order to take flight. Fortunately, I'm able to hunt only the wildest of the wild, and a flusher fits my needs/style best, so waiting is somewhat uncommon.

Interesting how different strokes work for different folks.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

20 pellets is 20 pellets.

Exactly. At long range, we're dealing with only a few pellets actually hitting the bird. If I could put 1 more pellet into a rooster's vitals at 45-50 yds, or break 1 more bone, that'd be huge. 2 pellets would be twice as huge. Not to mention the added shock energy. Shock kills too. Big difference between 1 & 1-1/8 oz?? No. But not insignificant.

 

[KEOutdoors]

20 pellets is 20 pellets. Especially when you're dealing with a subgauge load. On wild birds. On public land. After they've been hunted for 2 months hard. It's kinda the reason a lot of guys declare with a tinge of pride that they hunt all season long with a 20 or 28 gauge. Ammo these days guys are shooting ounce an'a quarter out of 20s an in some cases stuffing over an ounce in 28ga shells. The line between gauges has definitely been blurred. Bismuth isn't round like lead? That's a new one.

20 pellets isnt going to do any of those things just because they are there. The 1oz may pattern way better than the 1 1/8. I shoot a 20ga 1oz bismuth 4 that patterns night and day tighter than boss 1 1/8 4s in the same gun with the same choke. Increasing payload doesnt mean more range unless your gun likes that shell. Dont fall into the trap that you need more shot because you are hunting public birds, pattern your gun and see. Those 20 pellets may just fly out the edge of the pattern and at best break a wing tip on a bad shot, causing a crippled bird.


And yes bismuth is not round, cut one open and look. Not even boss is round. I reload with boss shot, its not even close to being perfectly round like lead shot, and does not deform on setback- if anything it shatters on setback because it is brittle.

 

[KEOutdoors]

20 pellets isnt going to do any of those things just because they are there. The 1oz may pattern way better than the 1 1/8. I shoot a 20ga 1oz bismuth 4 that patterns night and day tighter than boss 1 1/8 4s in the same gun with the same choke. Increasing payload doesnt mean more range unless your gun likes that shell. Dont fall into the trap that you need more shot because you are hunting public birds, pattern your gun and see.


And yes bismuth is not round, cut one open and look. Not even boss is round. I reload with boss shot, its not even close to being perfectly round like lead shot, and does not deform on setback- if anything it shatters on setback because it is brittle.

I do not see how to edit my post, so i will add here that i am up to about 120 bismuth patterns shot and recorded. Its a hobby of mine, ballistics and patterns. I do a lot of nontox work at the range, mostly being steel with some bismuth and tungsten work.

 

[Goosemaster]

Don't spend more than 12 dollars a box for shells.

 

[Wind River]

And $2.00 for a gallon of gas, good luck on that.