retrieve problem
- Thread starter greatlawn
- Start date
I'm no pro but had same problem with my brittany. Wouldn't retrieve at anything bigger than a pigeon. Started playing fetch with a weighted dummy with a wing attached. Next hunt retrieved half the birds. Kept working with her and 6 months later on our last hunt retrieved 12. Had many people telling me she needed to be forcefetched for $500 bucks, glad I worked it out on my own. It's maturity and experience and repitition in my opinion. Have fun!
I have never read the book Smart Fetch. Just wanted to point that out.
I have used the FF method on dogs before and I have seen others who have used it but not in the same manner I have.
If you choose to use the FF method, my advice is to remember. You are teaching things far more then just fetching a bird.
FF should not be rushed at all. It is not a short cut to anything. If done incorrectly I do feel it can have an adverse effect on a upland dog.
If done correctly the dog will fetch readily and still be a great working dog in the field.
It takes time and patience, the part I have seen some trainers fail at is the patience. Some trainers feel the need to use negative reinforcement with the dog BEFORE they have taught the dog what is expected of it.
By this I am referring to for example. Telling a dog to fetch. Then telling the dog to hold.
Lets assume the dog is able to fetch.
Lets assume the dog is able to hold until the dog feels it needs to let the item go.
It is at that point where I feel some trainers make the mistake of immediately going to a negative reinforcement to get the dog to "hold" until they are told to release.
Instead my approach would be more of.
Dog is put onto a training table
Dog fetches.
Dog then drops item.
Dog is given a firm NO command by myself, (at this point of the dogs life he already knows the word NO means what ever he just did...isn't what he was suppose to do, but being a dog he does not posses the ability to logically think about what he was suppose to do.)
Once I have to give the NO command. I will pick up the item. Put the item in the dogs mouth and continue to place it in his mouth. I will use the word HOLD.
I use the word DROP when I want him to drop it.
At first the time limit of holding might be 5 or 10 seconds.
When he does good he is given praise, do bad and hear the sharp NO.
Keep the training sessions short. 15 mins max.
Continue to repeat and gradually add more time to the hold.
To me that is force fetching and their no need to pinch toes ears or anything else.
It is simple repetition until the dog finally figures out.
This guy is the boss...lets do what he says so I can get off this table and go play.
I have used the FF method on dogs before and I have seen others who have used it but not in the same manner I have.
If you choose to use the FF method, my advice is to remember. You are teaching things far more then just fetching a bird.
FF should not be rushed at all. It is not a short cut to anything. If done incorrectly I do feel it can have an adverse effect on a upland dog.
If done correctly the dog will fetch readily and still be a great working dog in the field.
It takes time and patience, the part I have seen some trainers fail at is the patience. Some trainers feel the need to use negative reinforcement with the dog BEFORE they have taught the dog what is expected of it.
By this I am referring to for example. Telling a dog to fetch. Then telling the dog to hold.
Lets assume the dog is able to fetch.
Lets assume the dog is able to hold until the dog feels it needs to let the item go.
It is at that point where I feel some trainers make the mistake of immediately going to a negative reinforcement to get the dog to "hold" until they are told to release.
Instead my approach would be more of.
Dog is put onto a training table
Dog fetches.
Dog then drops item.
Dog is given a firm NO command by myself, (at this point of the dogs life he already knows the word NO means what ever he just did...isn't what he was suppose to do, but being a dog he does not posses the ability to logically think about what he was suppose to do.)
Once I have to give the NO command. I will pick up the item. Put the item in the dogs mouth and continue to place it in his mouth. I will use the word HOLD.
I use the word DROP when I want him to drop it.
At first the time limit of holding might be 5 or 10 seconds.
When he does good he is given praise, do bad and hear the sharp NO.
Keep the training sessions short. 15 mins max.
Continue to repeat and gradually add more time to the hold.
To me that is force fetching and their no need to pinch toes ears or anything else.
It is simple repetition until the dog finally figures out.
This guy is the boss...lets do what he says so I can get off this table and go play.
Gatzby
Well-known member
I have been to 2 Evan Graham seminars (smart works/smart fetch author). This guy knows dogs and his program seems really good! But..........he uses a lot of force, I am not saying he is unfair or abusive in any way. I do think care needs to be used as I do not think his method leaves much room for handler/trainer error. I personnaly don't feel my abilitys as a trainer are good enough to use Smart Works but if you are really good and very careful Evan will give you an awesome dog.
PS maybe try to find a club in your area that uses Evan's system to help you out.
Good Luck
Steve
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Your dog definitely needs to be put through a "Force Fetch" or "Trained Retrieve" program. FF does not need to be harsh but there is a point when a certain amount of force is required. If you can do it yourself and do it properly, great. I am with Gatzby, I've tried but just don't have either the patience or ability to do it properly. I sent my dog to a professional and it was well worth the $600 it cost. I was having a very similar problem as you. My Brittany loved to retrieve and would bring anything to hand when training in the yard or field. But shoot a bird over her and she would drop them short. A month of FF by a pro fixed it.
greatlawn
Member
Sorry I have been away for awhile. I would love to send him to get the ff done but I just don't have the funds. I hvae been using the smart fetch program and I think I am almost there. I took him out on some pen raised birds and he retrived to hand. I was shocked. The only thing that he did wrong is he is a little hard mouthed. I believe that that will get better with more repition on the hold command.
Gatzby
Well-known member
You are dead on. FF does tend to make a dog a little hard mouthed and somewhat sticky. Work on hold and give it some time.
Good Job!
Steve