Reintroducing forbs into short and tall grass prairie

reddog

reddog

Well-known member
My WSG prairies are virtually thistle free now and have been for a couple years now. I would like to reintroduce forbs into my plots. I hayed the tall grass this summer and it's relatively short now. I left my short grass prairie stand because there was a pretty good amount of forbs growing there on their own. (Compass plants, cup plants, purple and white prairie clovers ,cream and white wild indigo and a few pale prairie coneflowers)

I'm leaning towards a late fall burn and then a frost seeding,

Next year, should I plan on mowing to give the forbs the best chance at germination? I understand that without sunlight, there is little germination.

I'm hesitant to just sow seeds onto the existing stand without any way to guarantee ground contact.

Anyone care to comment..
 
Is it in an area where you can burn?

Fire in the tall grass prairie is a great tool. I did a summer burn on a third of my pasture, it should set the grass back and promote the forbs.
 
Do any of your local conservation organizations have one of the new no-till seeders you could use ?

Some of those can be pulled with an ATV, I don't know how big an area you are talking about.

That seed is costly, I agree you don't want to just throw it out there.
 
I can fire, and have.

Short grass is about 4 acres with a .5 acre wetland that used to be cropped. tall about 3. In my initial planting, I did not recognize the wetland as needing different plants. It has drowned out 3 times in 9 years. I've been applying a herbicide on it all summer, and it is black now. Going to seed this different than my upland ground.

I have a JD 4000 tractor, JD 7000 4R planter, 27 stalk chopper, disc, Bobcat skidloader and a Kubota RTV in my hobby farm arsenal

I was also thinking about a drill, but worry about getting the correct ratio, as there won't be much seed. But I do like the fact that it guarantees ground contact. I'm pretty sure I could line one up, if I decided to go that route

And yes, it is expensive. I spent a lot on forbs the first time, and lost the battle with thistles which also took out my forbs with the milestone application. That was 3 years ago, and I'm basically thistle free now.
 
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These newer small drills are made to seed multiple species at very low rates.

What is the residual for milestone ? Some of those last years.

Here is one made locally to me:

dew drop
 
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You are getting great comments Reddog. Checking the residual on the chemicals you have already used on the area is paramount. Second, many of these seeds need to be planted in the top 1/2 inch of soil so a grass drill is mandatory. Weakening the grass stand is also important. A fall or winter burn will help with that. Spot spraying any thistle resprout will be necessary and patrolling the plot weekly will be needed. I don't know how much you do know, but a grass drill is quite different than a crop drill. The disc opener is banded to control the depth of seeding. It is also designed to handle small seed in minute quantities. You have plenty of options. One might be to spray narrow strips in your grass stand with glyphosate to kill out the grass and seed your forb mix into those strips with limited competition. By all means, knocking down the thatch so that the drill can do it's job more efficiently is necessary. You may want to go with some larger forbs as they will be more capable of growing above the grass and not being out competed. It sounds like a good project! Just make sure to use the proper equipment so you don't waste your time and money. You could go on the cheap and go with alfalfa and clover, but having the native prairie plants is more of a permanent solution that will leave you with a much higher quality product in the end.
 
McFarmer, I thought we were neighbors, now I know we are. Spirit Lake for me..

I have heard residual for Milestone is 18 months, and Im well outside that window. Man, does that stuff work for thistles!

From Dow Agra site:
? In summer rainfall areas: Milestone? herbicide can be applied in the summer to control broadleaf weeds prior to forb planting.
Forbs can be seeded 60 days after application as a dormant fall planting insuring that the seeds will not germinate and emerge
until the following spring. Forbs can also be planted the following spring after an application the previous July.
? In areas with no to very little summer rainfall (Mediterranean climate), forbs can be planted 1 year after a Milestone treatment.

A little background may be needed into my project.
I initially seeded forbs and short grass prairie back in 2006. Maintanance mowed it for three years, let of go the 4th year, and it was gorgeous, except for the canadien thistles. I had fought a valiant fight against the canadiens for 3 years, but never really won any battles. (I think I I wouldve had the right chemical initially, I would not be where I am today). 2010 I took out the thistles and my forbs with the Milestone and have been spot treating it since. Im happy to report that I'm thistle free now, for the most part, and am ready to invest in a forb package again, knowing full well the costs involved along with the labor. What Im saying, is that IM not starting from scratch with a plot. I wish I knew back then, what I know now!.

I just want to do this correctly this time. I know a reintroduction into an established stand is somewhat difficult, but certainly not impossible. I also know that some of the forbs may take several years to germ.

I appreciate all the help.

Some of my pictures can be seen towards the end of the "Pollenator" thread.

I know bare dirt contact is essential, as is a frost seeding and overwintering in/on the ground. Im my mind, a no till drill seems to make the most sense, but my advisor keeps telling me to do it like Mother Nature did it and just broadcast the seeds.. I know you cant be too shallow with the seeds, but you certainly can be too deep..

Im just looking for how to prep the areas this fall prior to snow cover and the frost seeding in December.

Thanks again..

R
 
Trying to locate a no till seeder.

Going to do a fall burn on everything, as soon as the beans adjacent to my property are harvested and everything is dormant. Is that the right approach? (dormancy) or wont that set back the grasses enough.


If I cannot find a no till seeder, Im just going to broadcast and let nature do its thing.


Short grass prairie 4 years old, prior to Milestone app.

P1010134.JPG


Tall grass meadow after mowing in late July. Mowing realy sets back BBS.

P1010073.JPG
 
Forbs are generally the first things to perk up in the spring and will get first chance at the moisture, light, and fertility. However, the grass is already established, so it will take off strongly. By burning before frost, you will weaken the grass and give the forbs a better shot. However, you may find that the thistle will be given a second chance once you burn it off. You'll have to do some serious scouting and spot control in order to not go through the same pain you did before. Good luck!
 
reddog said:
Trying to locate a no till seeder.

Going to do a fall burn on everything, as soon as the beans adjacent to my property are harvested and everything is dormant. Is that the right approach? (dormancy) or wont that set back the grasses enough.


If I cannot find a no till seeder, Im just going to broadcast and let nature do its thing.


Short grass prairie 4 years old, prior to Milestone app.

P1010134.JPG


Tall grass meadow after mowing in late July. Mowing realy sets back BBS.

P1010073.JPG
Click to expand...

Man that is a really nice stand, I would hate to have to spray that.

The county board might have a drill, or some of the conservationist groups.
 
I really hated to knock out the forbs , but I figured I had to to stay a good neighbor. Pretty hard to bag on the DNR for not taking care of their property out of one side of my mouth, while my property had the same thing going on.. I finally got the DOT to give me my ROW. After spending millions on doing a native restoration all the way across the state on Highway 9. There is very little left of this expenditure. I want my ROW to be the way it was intended to be.

I have a few feelers out at the county level regarding a drill

R
 
Millborn seeds in Brookings SD has some forbes that plateau and milestone resistant, might help you tremendously.
 
My restoration project started this afternoon. I have a 1/2 a piece. Im hesitant to call it a wetland, but it does have occasional standing water in the spring, and during some major rain events. It has drowned out twice, over the last 8 years, and has been problematic for me, because I did not recognize it as a wetland,(needing different species) when I did my original planting in 2007 or so.

kub.jpg



I have kept this black with herbicide for over a year, getting rid of anything that germinated. I took the Kubota with a drag section from the back of an old field cultivator just to rough up the surface. Ill seed it on Saturday, and cultipack it in and let mother nature cold stratify the seed.





I have .5 a of wet mesic soil that will be a complete resotration, 1 a of mesic soil that I will be adding a forb package to the existing LBS. I also have an acre of dry mesic that will get a different forb package to the existing LBS. I have approx. 2 mesic acres of tall grass (IG, BBS and a little switch), that will be getting an inexpensive forb package, and a boost of switch. I also have .5 a of a woodland meadow that will be getting a forb package into the existing side oats/blue grama..

Not sure I can get all this done on Saturday...
 
Got most of it seeded on Saturday, and finished up with the woodland meadow this morning.

I ran a cultipacker over the bare ground (drowned out area) to pack the seed in and give them a little cover.

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Looking across the drowned out area to the short grass.

BBB.jpg


Tall grass meadow:

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Short grass prairie.

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Definitely in need of a forb intervention..

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Hopefully future pond site. I planted sunflowers in it this spring for doves. Drew a lot of doves, but never found any time to hunt them. The stick/tree is stuck in a 12 inch culvert that I dug 7 feet in vertically to monitor water levels.

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Hopefully I can help out the Monarchs and the pollinators with the forbs.

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Butterfly Milkweed (orange) LeadPlant (purple in background)
 
My hat's off Reddog;) That's going to be beautiful and beneficial habitat to all kinds of wildlife when you complete it. I can already picture hen pheasants running around with their chicks in your habitat!
 
Spring update:

Things went well with the fall work, and the frost seeding.

Early this spring, I gave the whole restoration a shot of early Glyphosate, to knock out the brome and the other unwanted cool season grasses, such as CWR.(of which I had very little of to begin with).

I picked a warm day in early April to apply, and it took quite a while for it to act, but when it quit getting greener, I know it was working. This was before any of the warm season grasses were growing. I walked the acreage with and flagged know forbs that I wanted to keep away from. There was some collateral damage to the forbs, as it was unavoidable with the early germinators, but I basically knew what I wanted to protect, and what I did not.

I took these pictures this morning, now that the warm seasons grasses and a lot of the forbs have broke ground.

Tall grass prairie:
20150504_075630.jpg


This area was basically void of any forbs, but I did overseed it with an inexpensive forb mix with a frost seeding. I don't think anything has germinated yet, but its got a great amount of soil contact and sunlight on the seed, both of which are primary factors in germination.

This is Big Blue, Indian and a little Switch coming up. These are bunch grasses, and you don't need a whole lot of plant populations in order to have a good stand. Theres plenty of room for forbs.
20150504_075752.jpg


20150504_075717.jpg
 
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