Range-Pointing Dog
- Thread starter V-John
- Start date
beaglebob1
New member
i know for a fact that they use to pop them in the butt for not staying steady.
had to many old timer tell me that. they would also beat them for any off game. collar is a better solution hands down for training an animal of behavior problems. my last post on this subject..:thumbsup:
I know an old timer who is in his mid 70's who ran, and still runs the occasional trial. Before him, his dad was a field trial trainer who ran pointers. His dad would breed a litter of pups and run them until they were 1 year old back in the 50's and 60's. If none of the dogs were cut out to be trial dogs, his dad would throw them off a bridge into a river, as they floated down on the other side the son's job was to shoot the dogs in the river as they went by. The stories he told were nothing short of horrific, shooting them in the butt was tame compared to some of the stuff. Horrible, but true. Ive seen the son demonstrate a "whoa" post. While I respect him and think he knows a lot about training, I only had to see that once. On the other hand, Ive also seen someone train "whoa" with an e-collar after the dog learned off a check cord. The e-collar was much, much more human, and it worked a heck of a lot quicker..
SetterNut
New member
Now Shadow, you can't tell me that you are an oldtimer and have been around birddogs for years, and never saw someone pound on a dog, or shot them with bird shot. I am not say you did it, I am say that if you have been at this that long, you know someone that has.
I value my dog as much and I suspect more than most. I would never do anything that is not in the best interest of my dog.
And hunting without a Garnin and e-collar on is not in his best interest or safety, So it isn't going to Fringin happen. I do run my dog in a trial every now and them, the e-collar comes off then, but the Garmin is on him and the Judge has the handheld in his saddle bag.
Shadow
Banned
I know all about NSTRA trials
it's not that I won't hunt with dogs that need shock collars on-
it's- why do you need a shock collar on your dog and how is that dog in a field on a days hunt when it doesn't have the shock collar on- simply put-
take the shock collar off and let the dog run- it's a good dog right- show it doesn't need the collar on- my point- be willing to unstrap that shock collar- you aren't willing- your dog is suspect
Shadow
Banned
you mistake me- yes- I was fresh out of college and came down here to hunt with my uncle and his freinds- I can name names- 1972- in 2 years I never saw anyone shoot at a dog- pick them up and shake them- yes-
you should have hunted with real bird dog guys from those days- you would have a different outlook on bird hunting
what's the matter- you have a real good dog- you don't think you can handle yours without a shock collar and Garmin-
I've already stated- my Britt will hunt for me and I don't need a shock collar or a Garmin to have a good day in the field-
you can't- you have a superb dog- why not put it with another without the electronics- no faith
Last edited:
If he runs trials without a collar, Im pretty sure it means his dog isn't suspect, and doesn't need a collar....
Running a Garmin has nothing to do with the level of training... Or does it? IMO, a well trained dog is much more likely to need a Garmin then an untrained dog.. Why? Because a well trained dog is going to be 99.9% staunch on birds, and not move if the birds hold. If that means the dog is going to stand for 20 minutes, so be it. Few dogs have that kind of patience. How are you going to find a dog that will hold a bird for that long in heavy cover? Want an example? Here ya go. The dog was standing for almost 10 minutes by the time we go to it. When we did find where the dog was supposed to be, we thought the collar had come off because we couldn't see the dog, and all the GPS said was "near".. In other words the dog was withing about 5 yards of us. Without a GPS, we would have NEVER found my dog. So, can you find Waldo Shadow?
Last edited:
SetterNut
New member
I am old enough to have hunted with people of that era, and did.
Many were good birddog people and some I wanted to beat the crap out of for mistreating their dogs. But they were their dogs so I kept my mouth shut. It was considered bad manors to interfere between them and their dog, just as it is bad manors to badmouth someones dog.
Some of the good old days was not so good. You know that and I do too.
Training without an e-collar is not magic. The best dog trainers that I have been around teach the dog the command without the e-collar first. Once the dog knows the command and is demonstrating that they know it, the e-collar can then be use. IF you don't want to use the e-collar don't, but the training is the basically the same.
Many were good birddog people and some I wanted to beat the crap out of for mistreating their dogs. But they were their dogs so I kept my mouth shut. It was considered bad manors to interfere between them and their dog, just as it is bad manors to badmouth someones dog.
Some of the good old days was not so good. You know that and I do too.
Training without an e-collar is not magic. The best dog trainers that I have been around teach the dog the command without the e-collar first. Once the dog knows the command and is demonstrating that they know it, the e-collar can then be use. IF you don't want to use the e-collar don't, but the training is the basically the same.
Shadow
Banned
I hunted for 2 years with 4 guys and every field was let em loose- talking about up to 13 dogs- never ever saw anyone pop them in the butt- thing you're full of it- or saw idiot nut heads with so called bird dogs
can tell you- the group I ran with would have "popped you in the butt" if you swung your gun on a dog and pulled the trigger- we'd have loaded up your dog and made you walk home at the very least
think you are living in La La land
Shadow
Banned
beaglebob1
New member
i was trying to stay out of this but you are just one insult after another..
you show a lack of class with your childish insults and blabber.
yes i know these folks in kentucky and yes they did pop the dogs.. it was the way they trained. reading your post you have not a clue on how to train or handle a dog. put the bottle down and come back when your sober..
beaglebob1
New member
Shadow.. Here's what you have to understand. Just because YOU don't hunt with an e-collar, doesn't mean someone else dog is suspect because they do. I guarantee you that if you put your unbroke dog in a trial, everyone would look at you and wonder why you wasted their time with an untrained dog that didn't have any maners around birds. And none of those dogs you ran against would be wearing e-collars....... Your dog does a good job for you, and thats all that matters. I guarantee you that your dogs wouldn't do a good job for me, because like you said in an earlier post, they aren't even broke. I don't put my dog down with unbroke dogs, but i won't judge you because you do. IMO, a dog aint worth a damn if its not broke. But my opinion doesn't matter to you, because you don't demand perfection, nor do you need it in a hunting dog.
Shadow
Banned
interesting- you would be 60 years old- right
you would now Junior Dixon, Floyd Hodges, Errni Simmons, Dave Trombley
you need to sit back- and think- some would come to your house knowing you had a bird dog that you beat-
we didn't beat bird dogs in those days- we used ours to dove, duck, quail, and pheasant hunt
we had as good of pointing dogs as there are today
we ran in some AKC field trials
we ran EP, ES, Britt's- all had to back- or be put in the dog boxes- standard proceedure- you din't put a dog on the ground unless it had manners
we didn't have shock collars
in honor of my uncles- I hunt bird dogs as they did- old school
Shadow
Banned
i was trying to stay out of this but you are just one insult after another..
you show a lack of class with your childish insults and blabber.
yes i know these folks in kentucky and yes they did pop the dogs.. it was the way they trained. reading your post you have not a clue on how to train or handle a dog. put the bottle down and come back when your sober..
you mistake me- but then you might not have any class
this is all about-
RANGING
you need a shock collar on your dog- your dog covers grond- your dog handles- why do you need a shock collar if your dog handles-
I DON'T
Simple.. What if it takes a step after a bird falls? What if it accidentally busts a bird and doesn't stop to flush? You stated in an earlier post that you would NEVER let your dog track a running bird.. How do you pull your dog off if it decides to ignore you and track a running bird? And please don't tell us your dogs have never disobeyed you in the field. Most likely, you don't demand your dogs to perform to the same level as many of us. Thats Ok, but don't bash people because they do demand close to perfection.
Shadow
Banned
depends on the trial- wouldn't you say- if I was to run in NSTRA and place 1st- you would say a waste- no good dog-
you would run your FC in a NSTRA trial- but it might run right out of bounds and on- a waste
think it all boils down to- a dog that can really run, and turn to hunt for the gunner- not keep right on running- you and others with real big running dogs can turn yours when you want- without a shock collar- that's impressive-
I've had my hands full keeping Britt's inside 1/4 mile for the past 20 years-
suppose I should have bought the best shock collar 20 years ago and it would have been easy-
but I like to think mine turn because they are out far enough and want to be where I am because we are a team so they turn and swing in- VS- hit them with a shock to turn and come in
hum- I'd rather have a 1/4 mile dog that swings on it's own rather than shock the dog so it comes back
I may be missing something- like I've said- who is real experienced in this stuff who can show me after 3 hours in a field behind my Britt's why I should buy a shock collar
Shadow
Banned
I have never allowed my Britt's to put their nose to the gound to track- I pull them off- I've seen a pointer track and point 10 times on a wounded roosters
So I don't have all of mine steady to wing and shot- is that so bad- to perfectionists- probably
disobeyed!!- of course mine have- they aren't robots- I should have a shock collar on them so I can shock them when they aren't perfect
you have kids- correct
SetterNut
New member
Shadow the point I and many others have been trying to make is that wearing an e-collar or not wearing an e-collar has little to do with a birddog being good or bad, or the owner or trainer being a dog man or not.
I hunted with several older men in my early teens, They were nice enough to take me because my dad was not a hunter. Dad just didn't have time.
But I saw them on several occasions "pepper" a dogs but for making a mistake or not following commands. They did it as a correction when they could not get to the dog, I didn't like it, but that is the way many old timers did it. That is just a fact. If you family and friends didn't do that, they are to be congratulated. But the fact remains that many old timers did it before the days of e-collar.
If you do the math, if you start hunting when you are 12-13 in 1972 you would be in your early 50's now. As I am.
This topic has run its course for me, on to something of interest about hunting and bird dogs.:cheers:
I hunted with several older men in my early teens, They were nice enough to take me because my dad was not a hunter. Dad just didn't have time.
But I saw them on several occasions "pepper" a dogs but for making a mistake or not following commands. They did it as a correction when they could not get to the dog, I didn't like it, but that is the way many old timers did it. That is just a fact. If you family and friends didn't do that, they are to be congratulated. But the fact remains that many old timers did it before the days of e-collar.
If you do the math, if you start hunting when you are 12-13 in 1972 you would be in your early 50's now. As I am.
This topic has run its course for me, on to something of interest about hunting and bird dogs.:cheers: