Raise out of state fees!!

[Straightup82]

this is a topic that is polarizing in terms of how the position of res. vs. non-res view the matter. It's probably no longer deer hunting, but 'large' deer hunting that gobbles up land. Let's not pretend there aren't plenty of resdience leasing up ground to maintain access and prevent other residence from access to ground becasue it easier t just pay if you have the means. Same issues with leased ground exists in Missouri.

Deer hunting is simply easier, requires less ground and attracts the fringe hunter, unless of course you're hard core and that's only a small % of the deer hunters. Like an annual vacation and with that the costs that are justified by those hunters, who don't enter the field again until the next year...Not sure its the root of all the badness, but it certainly a variable that is a contributor on some level like many other things.

 

[Toad]

I really like putting a deer or two in the freezer. I have a bow, a gun, and a few tree stands. I mostly shoot does and forks, whatever comes by first when the weather is good so I can let the deer hang for a day or two before I process it myself. I'm very thorough in my processing, and we eat as much of the animal as possible. I don't think we've ever thrown out venison, it always gets eaten. I think I represent a lot more hunters than you think. Maybe the trophy guys are flooding the forums and facebook pages with their chest-beating, but most hunters I know are just trying to get outside, de-stress, and hopefully get some good meat for the family.

Deer hunting should NOT be more difficult. There should NOT be more barriers to entry. It should NOT be more expensive. There are a zillion whitetails all over this state. In many areas of the state, the most sound management plan would be to cull the herd a bit and thin out the numbers. The rules should remain simple and user-friendly, and the tags should remain easily accessible and reasonably priced.

Hunting needs to remain as "inclusive" as possible, or it is a tradition that will end when we are gone.
My .02

 

[dogman]

I’m with you. As sportsmen I think we all should be concerned with encouraging the sport of hunting not discounting it. As I read so many of the posts on UPH they seem to talk about all the reasons one shouldn’t not why one should hunt. I read too often of hunters complaining it’s too warm or too cold too much snow too muddy too many hunters no birds no cover too much cover. I maintain Kansas is one of the best kept secrets in the nation when it comes to hunting. Over the years some of them my best hunting was when the weather was at its worst. Good hunting is more about learning as much as you can about the game you’re going after. Learn their habits their movements how weather affects their patterns and where you could expect to find them at any time of the day or in any type of weather Then get out and scout and be adaptable. This site will be much more beneficial to fellow hunters/sportsman rather than talk of raising out of state fees and discouraging the future of hunting tradition.

 

[kick them up]

Well said Toad !

I really like putting a deer or two in the freezer. I have a bow, a gun, and a few tree stands. I mostly shoot does and forks, whatever comes by first when the weather is good so I can let the deer hang for a day or two before I process it myself. I'm very thorough in my processing, and we eat as much of the animal as possible. I don't think we've ever thrown out venison, it always gets eaten. I think I represent a lot more hunters than you think. Maybe the trophy guys are flooding the forums and facebook pages with their chest-beating, but most hunters I know are just trying to get outside, de-stress, and hopefully get some good meat for the family.

Deer hunting should NOT be more difficult. There should NOT be more barriers to entry. It should NOT be more expensive. There are a zillion whitetails all over this state. In many areas of the state, the most sound management plan would be to cull the herd a bit and thin out the numbers. The rules should remain simple and user-friendly, and the tags should remain easily accessible and reasonably priced.

Hunting needs to remain as "inclusive" as possible, or it is a tradition that will end when we are gone.
My .02

 

[watermen]

Well said Toad !

Exactly! Well said.

 

[westksbowhunter]

I really like putting a deer or two in the freezer. I have a bow, a gun, and a few tree stands. I mostly shoot does and forks, whatever comes by first when the weather is good so I can let the deer hang for a day or two before I process it myself. I'm very thorough in my processing, and we eat as much of the animal as possible. I don't think we've ever thrown out venison, it always gets eaten. I think I represent a lot more hunters than you think. Maybe the trophy guys are flooding the forums and facebook pages with their chest-beating, but most hunters I know are just trying to get outside, de-stress, and hopefully get some good meat for the family.

Deer hunting should NOT be more difficult. There should NOT be more barriers to entry. It should NOT be more expensive. There are a zillion whitetails all over this state. In many areas of the state, the most sound management plan would be to cull the herd a bit and thin out the numbers. The rules should remain simple and user-friendly, and the tags should remain easily accessible and reasonably priced.

Hunting needs to remain as "inclusive" as possible, or it is a tradition that will end when we are gone.
My .02

If you want deer hunting to become less difficult then you need to find a way to decrease leasing. It is about impossible for a teenage kid to get started in hunting simply because access if very limited. And not just young hunters but any newcomers. Hunting numbers are on the decline and the biggest reason is leasing. Why do we have leasing? One because of a selfish business man in Ohio who wanted the inclusion of crossbows. Same thing happened when a small group wanted an early muzzle loader season. Then 1995 happened. Then 5 month seasons. Then any season tags. Pretty soon we have a small group of hunters and an exploding number of outfitters leasing everything. Funny thing Toad, when we had all the barriers like bowhunters ed, an age limit of 12, and a 3 month season we had a lot more resident hunters than we do now. While your theory may sound good to those who don't spend much time in the woods, it actually has the opposite effect of what you advocate. You want to increase resident hunter numbers, then you need to cut way back on non resident tags, shorten seasons, and make a hunter choose a weapon and a season. Make changes back towards the original management plan, then you will see young kids getting back into hunting. Our system does not promote youth hunting, it promotes Outfitters and money for the state of Kansas. Your "Easy Button" has had a negative effect on hunting and those who simply want to put meat in the freezer can't find a place to hunt. Inclusion is hurting numbers of residents. Inclusion of crossbows into the bow season has been one of the worst decisions ever.

 

[hunter94]

If you want deer hunting to become less difficult then you need to find a way to decrease leasing. It is about impossible for a teenage kid to get started in hunting simply because access if very limited. And not just young hunters but any newcomers. Hunting numbers are on the decline and the biggest reason is leasing. Why do we have leasing? One because of a selfish business man in Ohio who wanted the inclusion of crossbows. Same thing happened when a small group wanted an early muzzle loader season. Then 1995 happened. Then 5 month seasons. Then any season tags. Pretty soon we have a small group of hunters and an exploding number of outfitters leasing everything. Funny thing Toad, when we had all the barriers like bowhunters ed, an age limit of 12, and a 3 month season we had a lot more resident hunters than we do now. While your theory may sound good to those who don't spend much time in the woods, it actually has the opposite effect of what you advocate. You want to increase resident hunter numbers, then you need to cut way back on non resident tags, shorten seasons, and make a hunter choose a weapon and a season. Make changes back towards the original management plan, then you will see young kids getting back into hunting. Our system does not promote youth hunting, it promotes Outfitters and money for the state of Kansas. Your "Easy Button" has had a negative effect on hunting and those who simply want to put meat in the freezer can't find a place to hunt. Inclusion is hurting numbers of residents. Inclusion of crossbows into the bow season has been one of the worst decisions ever.

you can thank KDWP for being unable to say no.....it's all about the money, it always is.

 

[westksbowhunter]

you can thank KDWP for being unable to say no.....it's all about the money, it always is.

That has been my point all along. Our management system is set up to capitalize on non resident hunters. It is squeezing out new resident hunters and phasing out the old hunters. We have so many special seasons and long seasons. Outfitters love it. How many 16 year old hunters can afford an outfitter or a lease?

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

There are about 20000 nonresident deer tags sold a year. The other 80 percent come for walkin hunting.

 

[westksbowhunter]

There are about 20000 nonresident deer tags sold a year. The other 80 percent come for walkin hunting.

Yep and 80% of the leasing is a result of those tags. There was a lot of WIHA that was pulled this year and went to a lease, and it wasn't for "Walkin Hunting". Just wait another 10 years.

 

[Toad]

That has been my point all along. Our management system is set up to capitalize on non resident hunters. It is squeezing out new resident hunters and phasing out the old hunters. We have so many special seasons and long seasons. Outfitters love it. How many 16 year old hunters can afford an outfitter or a lease?

16-year-old hunters should be looking for adult mentors. And if a kid asks to go hunting, we should take them. Honestly, a 16 year old probably has a WAAAAAY better chance of knocking on a door and getting access compared to me. ha...

I see your point about how the growth of leasing might be an unintended side effect of long seasons and minimal regs. On the other hand, long seasons and minimal regs have been great for me too. I get my "any season", "any whitetail" tag and I am good to go until I get my deer. It's great. I feel like I can still fulfill my obligations to family and work and there's plenty of time to work in a deer hunt here and there.

Maybe there's a way to address your concerns about leasing without ditching this really user-friendly system we have now.

 

[s.davis]

If leasing is the problem, regulate leasing. There are lots of common sense solutions, make landowners who lease private ground for hunting provide public access to an equivalent amount of acreage. Tax leases at higher rates and invest the money in funding public access or the wildlife department, etc. I’m sensitive to the leasing problem and the increasing gentrification of hunting, but anyone who thinks leasing is the root cause of hunter decline is misdiagnosing the ailment very, very badly. The opposite is more likely to be causally linked.

 

[westksbowhunter]

16-year-old hunters should be looking for adult mentors. And if a kid asks to go hunting, we should take them. Honestly, a 16 year old probably has a WAAAAAY better chance of knocking on a door and getting access compared to me. ha...

I see your point about how the growth of leasing might be an unintended side effect of long seasons and minimal regs. On the other hand, long seasons and minimal regs have been great for me too. I get my "any season", "any whitetail" tag and I am good to go until I get my deer. It's great. I feel like I can still fulfill my obligations to family and work and there's plenty of time to work in a deer hunt here and there.

Maybe there's a way to address your concerns about leasing without ditching this really user-friendly system we have now.

The problem with the any season tag is that the majority of people who buy them don't understand that they can't use them on mule deer. Even hunters from the east side buy them and then go out west and tag a mule deer not knowing or get a ticket from a warden . Happens very frequently. The biggest issue is how they are sold. Vendors don't ask you what tag you want they just automatically give you the any season tag. As far a a 16 year old kid or even younger, well at that age I educated myself on the ways of the woods. I would just take off explorer or hunting not having to worry about getting chased off of someones lease. Purple paint everywhere keeps kids out. A high school kid should be able to go hunting on his own without an adult.

 

[westksbowhunter]

If leasing is the problem, regulate leasing. There are lots of common sense solutions, make landowners who lease private ground for hunting provide public access to an equivalent amount of acreage. Tax leases at higher rates and invest the money in funding public access or the wildlife department, etc. I’m sensitive to the leasing problem and the increasing gentrification of hunting, but anyone who thinks leasing is the root cause of hunter decline is misdiagnosing the ailment very, very badly. The opposite is more likely to be causally linked.

Well our KDWPT sites leasing as one of the major causes of hunter decline.

 

[hunter94]

Well our KDWPT sites leasing as one of the major causes of hunter decline.

no doubt.....these guys are waving big money to strapped farmers for a couple weeks of deer hunting......can't blame them for taking it. will be a tough year for many many.

 

[fsentkilr]

If leasing is the problem, regulate leasing. There are lots of common sense solutions, make landowners who lease private ground for hunting provide public access to an equivalent amount of acreage. Tax leases at higher rates and invest the money in funding public access or the wildlife department, etc. I’m sensitive to the leasing problem and the increasing gentrification of hunting, but anyone who thinks leasing is the root cause of hunter decline is misdiagnosing the ailment very, very badly. The opposite is more likely to be causally linked.

Make private landowners provide public access? Lol. I am afraid that may be the way the country is heading however. Landowners should be able to lease how much of their ground they want for whatever they can get. Hunting rights do pass with the land. For the record I don't lease any ground, but it's my right if I choose to.

 

[hunter94]

Make private landowners provide public access? Lol. I am afraid that may be the way the country is heading however. Landowners should be able to lease how much of their ground they want for whatever they can get. Hunting rights do pass with the land. For the record I don't lease any ground, but it's my right if I choose to.

agree, probably the only answer is regulating/limiting the number of permits allowed.

 

[hunter94]

Make private landowners provide public access? Lol. I am afraid that may be the way the country is heading however. Landowners should be able to lease how much of their ground they want for whatever they can get. Hunting rights do pass with the land. For the record I don't lease any ground, but it's my right if I choose to.

agree, probably the only answer is regulating/limiting the number of permits allowed. no real good answers here.

 

[hunter94]

agree, probably the only answer is regulating/limiting the number of permits allowed. no real good answers here.

nterest in the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) has remained high among Kansas farmers. National caps on the program were reduced in the 2014 Farm Bill, decreasing the total allowable acres by almost 50%. The CRP program is at its regulatory enrollment cap, and thus no general signup was conducted in 2018 although there was a limited signup for certain high priority buffer practices. This resulted in a net loss of enrollment of more than 106,000 CRP acres in Kansas in 2018. Hunters are unlikely to see any immediate population impact from these expirations. However, with nearly 1 million acres set to expire between 2020-2022, if this trend continues, significant population impacts are likely if suitable habitat on CRP lands is lost. The more immediate impact that hunters may see is to the Walk-In-Hunting Access (WIHA) program. A large portion of properties in the WIHA program include CRP and expirations may reduce quality or exclude properties from the program. At this point in time, the Kansas WIHA program remains strong, and nearly 1.2 million acres are enrolled (atlases are available at ksoutdoors.com/wiha or at any license vendor).


next year will be a turning point......

 

[s.davis]

Landowners should be able to lease how much of their ground they want for whatever they can get.

That’s what they are doing now and everybody’s crying about it. And I think they are probably right, even if I don’t think the solutions they propose are not really effective ways to mitigate the problems. That said, leasing land for hunting is an industry. And just like there are some (but probably not enough) regulations on all kind of other extractive industries, there’s no reason hunting leases shouldn’t also be regulated in a way that preserves and protects the public interest. Wildlife, after all, is not the possession of landowners.