westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Big difference between a few and 15. I probably hunt more than most everyone on here and might loose 1 or 2 per year. If I was loosing 15 per year, I would probably hang it up.
Pup going to training for a month
- Thread starter ScottH
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Munster927
Well-known member
Agreed. All of last year I lost one bird. And I hunted more than my average year. The bird I lost, I was hunting over my young dog (1.5 last year), we got into a big group of birds with about 7 getting up in a thick CRP field. I dropped one and my dad dropped one. It was crazy windy but she found mind but we couldn't locate my dad's. Between the wind and how much bird scent was there, I think she just couldn't pick up on that one bird. My 9 year old would have found that 2nd bird.
I think the most I've lost in one year is 2. Usually it's my fault when I lose a bird and more often than not, it's because I shot a double. With the 2nd bird I marked well and lose track of the first.
Winchester30
Active member
Agree with last couple posts.
It’s the losses that always bother me throughout the season. I would choose my shots more carefully if my losses were in the double digits.
It’s the losses that always bother me throughout the season. I would choose my shots more carefully if my losses were in the double digits.
remy3424
Well-known member
Quarter sections of CRP, even 80s with mixes with lots of switch and big blue require diligent marking to effectively find even the dead birds, tall grass is a huge disadvatage to the dogs. Tons of birds and the scent they leave, is not optimal for the dogs either. When I hunt our CRP, I am delighted when we don't leave any downed birds behind, I hunt one other piece of CRP that is even thicker & taller, and we have the same issues there. Creeks and draws are an entirely different game along with shorter grass CRP are not nearly as challenging. Shooting doubles in the CRP is asking for trouble, I "try" (it takes the first week or 2 to re-learn this) not to do that when it is just me and my buddy with each of our dogs. I did take another fella and 2 of my cousins out in that CRP last year with us for a late season hunt this past season, 5 hunters and 5 dogs, we did lose one. I did get a triple, the last one I shot fell across the road and was instantly up & running in the bean stubble, one of the cousins with 2 dogs had his young lab run that one down, the other 2 other took at least 15 minutes to find both, and my old GSP didn't find either of those. The next bird that was shot was another 15 minute or so search by the pack. I hate to leave them, but it happens...we often intentional avoid hunting the switch grass as the recoveries are so difficult. If they are in my range, I am shooting, which may add to my losses. I will lose around 10 a season (only remember losing one not in the tough CRP parcels), appalling to people here.....I did recover 60 last season...as a percentage it does seem appalling. If I avoided the large tracts of deep cover, my losses would be minimal....but it is that deep cover that holds most of the birds.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
I hunt a lot of thick tall crp and I lose very few. Last year I shot a triple and had trouble finding one. Eventually, my dog found it, but it had moved about 30 yds from where it fell and had really dug in. It took about 45 minutes to find it. Sometimes it takes an hour or so to find them but I would assume that most are not willing to sacrifice that much time. I saw a guy hunting some of the nastiest stuff around 4 or 5 years ago and he was searching for a bird next to the road. I stopped and asked him how it was going and he told me he had lost a couple of birds and that he was giving up. So I asked him to put his dogs up and let mine get them for him. I don't think it took my dogs 5 minutes to recover his birds. I start mine as young as 8 weeks of age scent trailing. By the time they are 6 months old, I have them trailing dead pigeons that I have dragged through the cover 200 yds or so. Scent trailing is a very big part of my training program. When I say dead bird they go crazy. I had shot one that fell on the top of hill next to the road about 15 years ago. My dog never saw it fall. My dad was blocking and said the bird ran out of sight across a cut corn field. When we go up there I put my lab on the scent trail and he took off running across the corn field. He ran out of sight into some cattails about a 1/2 mile away. My son said that Fred would find the bird and my dad wanted to load up the truck and drive down and get the dog and to kiss that bird goodbye. I said give him 10 minutes or so. Eventually my dog reappeared about a 1/2 mile away. When he got to a 100 yds or so we could see he had the live bird. I felt with that dog, rest his soul, that there was never a bird that we could not recover. It also helps to shoot the most expensive shell you can buy and pattern your gun. I did loose a couple last year and I blame it on the shells. I like to shoot Kent Ultimate Upland and Browning BXD but got low last year and tried some of the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 5's in my 20. Felt like I crippled more birds than usual. So I bought a couple of Briley tubes and found that with the light modified that they pattern much better. And that the 6's pattern much better than the 5's. I was able to buy a case of GF number 6's a couple weeks ago but have not seen any of the Kents or Brownings anywhere. Shells may be a problem this year with availability. Pattern your guns everyone.
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jackrabbit
Active member
I had one last year that I winged, dog chased for about 45 minutes in every direction and every now and then I could see it fly a few feet into the air and back down. Then I think we unknowingly pushed it to a group of 3 guys in the (public) field because I heard them yell, "(dog's name) just caught one!" and they all started cheering.
I am biased, like we all are, but I think I have a tremendous lab at pheasant hunting. A few years ago I shot one out of about a 100 yard x 100 yard low wet slough in the middle of a picked corn field, so just bare black dirt every where around it. The bird landed right in the dirt outside of the slough, plain in sight, but the dog never saw it go down. The wind was blowing in the wrong direction and my dog searched forever in the slough trying to find that bird, often times coming to the edge within a few feet of it. So a bird that goes straight down leaving no trail or scent, and the wind not blowing towards the dog, it's amazing how it all works...
I am biased, like we all are, but I think I have a tremendous lab at pheasant hunting. A few years ago I shot one out of about a 100 yard x 100 yard low wet slough in the middle of a picked corn field, so just bare black dirt every where around it. The bird landed right in the dirt outside of the slough, plain in sight, but the dog never saw it go down. The wind was blowing in the wrong direction and my dog searched forever in the slough trying to find that bird, often times coming to the edge within a few feet of it. So a bird that goes straight down leaving no trail or scent, and the wind not blowing towards the dog, it's amazing how it all works...
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Nothing better than a lab on crippled birds.
jackrabbit
Active member
I don't really know what to tell you that is positive or encouraging... better trainer? I might be wrong, but I feel like a professional/quality trainer would not bring the dog back to you without the retrieving problem being 100% fixed AND have created another problem in the process? Some dogs just don't "have it" and a trainer would know, and should also be realistic with you about what the ceiling is for them training your dog.
jackrabbit
Active member
Well maybe that answers the question... he'll continue working with him and get the problems fixed.
jackrabbit
Active member
It is great that you are trying to learn. I would recommend to talk with the trainer and see what you can do, because I'd hate to have you unknowingly mess something up and delay the progress from the trainer. Training a dog is just like school, the pup is starting at Kindergarten and each grade is a building block until they graduate High School, or maybe even College. If you skip or remove one of those building blocks, you're not going to reach your end goal.
I appreciate that. Yea I will talk with him for sure. I love watching this dog work birds. I don’t care to even shoot them but man dogs are amazing to watch!!! I agree I don’t want to mess him up and maybe I’m trying too hard and will mess him up in the long run. Thanks I actually needed to hear someone say take a step back.
jackrabbit
Active member
Not quite saying take a step back, because in an ideal situation a dog needs some form of mental, physical, training, exercise, obedience, etc. every day. But just make sure that what you are doing is aligning with your goals and your trainers training program/building blocks.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
A dog needs a minimum of 3 months with a quality trainer. A trainer offering programs in terms of 2 weeks or a month isn't quality in my book. Obedience is a month to 6 weeks long before you ever begin any other type of training. You always get what you pay for.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Scott you need to set down and map out your goals that you want accomplished through training then find a trainer that can help your dog accomplish that. You need to visit with several different trainers then visit a couple of them and let them evaluate your dog. Then you can match a trainer and program to your goals. I am confused in what you wanted to accomplish in the brief time your dog went for training? In a month, you could force fetch your dog, you could whoa break your dog, you could do some obedience but you could not accomplish all 3. You couldn't even collar condition as you would have to have obedience first.