pro's and con of a tracking pointer

[Shadow]

I'd like to hear what you think of a tracking pointing dog vs a non tracking pointing dog

meaning- why should a dog put it's nose to the ground and track vs one that carries it's head high and doesn't stick the nose on the ground

I'm talking pheasants- since this is a pheasant forum

 

[bobeyerite]

Shadow, I am going to use Tony as my example. Tony goes and points a bird, I flush bird, shot but only cripple. Bird takes off running. Tony follows to retrieve bird. With the scent being what it is very weak usually. He will check the ground to get the positive direction the bird ran. Then he air scent and track at times to find bird and bring it back.......Bob

 

[daniel77]

I'd say that learning to trust air scent and move quickly is one of those things that a dog learns with experience. As I had gotten into in that other thread, to really have a dog tracking ground scent takes a bunch of work. A dog that simply starts out holding it's head low while searching will hopefully learn to pick up that head and really cover some ground as it gets into more birds and it's desire to find them increases. Hopefully anyway. I'd say that this would be evident in the versatile breeds, like the GWP, and DD. I wouldn't expect to see those dogs working a field with their noses to the ground, not the good ones anyway. BTW, I wouldn't say that this is exclusive to pointing dogs. I'd not want my lab or spaniel to be working ground scent all the time either, although I also wouldn't expect them to read scent as easily as a pointer, setter, or "true" bird dog.

 

[Shadow]

ahh Bob- you have smart Britt's-

sometimes there are wounded pheasants- mine put the nose down- I scold them and get them going- I want mine running with a high head using the wind- if I think there's a bird down I circle and come in with the wind- don't want mine following nose to the ground- I've had trackers and then mine come in and lock up- still laughing- I see the tracker- "get em boy" they get mad- usually I can tell and push mine to go in and grab or get otta there-

there aren't very many dogs that can find and end up with a wounded roosters- but I await as I'd always be open to see a tracking pointer in a field with a non tracker

want to hear some responses before I post about two guys with a tracker vs mine who don't

wounded supposedly rooster- that thing can really cover ground- naaaa- never allow mine to put the nose on the ground- but as I usually hunt two or more at a time- they pin them- then I have to step on it

so trackers- tell me how yours can track all over the country- and hold it- and you flush it- or your's jumps in and grabs- on comand because you know the dog has it and it won't fly- right- or that you have so many false points- you get all excited as the dog is locked up- 40 times maybe on a rooster with a broken wing over a three hour period as you are so sure you'll get that bird

and then the flusher- what happens when the dog can't get it to come off the ground- but can't catch it either- you hollering to control your dog or just let it do it's thing- sure it'll get the rooster

listening

 

[quail hound]

I'd not want my lab or spaniel to be working ground scent all the time either, although I also wouldn't expect them to read scent as easily as a pointer, setter, or "true" bird dog.

Excuse me but my springers ARE "true" bird dogs. If you don't believe me ask the old man at our local wildlife refuge who runs pointers and setters, he would ask where we pulled our roosters and when I told him he'd say "damn, we hunted out of that same parking lot and only seen two hens." I told him we pushed them out of the tules and the sloughs out of the water and he said, "I wish I could still keep up with a springer."

My dogs might not be the best in a 1/4 section of crp, but they are "true" bird dogs.

 

[daniel77]

Eeeaaasssyyy Now! I'm a retriever man myself, and just now have my first pointing dog, a 9 month old male English Setter. I put that word in quotes for a reason. It was a bit tongue in cheek, fuel for fire, and so forth. Have a Scotch and relax.:cheers:

 

[Gove County Britts]

I run both in the field all the time my britts wind them and my lab tracks and bar none hands down without a douvt 99.9% of the time my lab will find it first and if she sees the shot on the wounded bird I guarantee she will come back with it been proven many times

 

[quail hound]

You're right, I should relax a bit.:cheers: Sorry I read into it a little much but I love my springers. I'm calm now though.

 

[Shadow]

I run both in the field all the time my britts wind them and my lab tracks and bar none hands down without a douvt 99.9% of the time my lab will find it first and if she sees the shot on the wounded bird I guarantee she will come back with it been proven many times

sounds good- you saying in the same field your lab is going to retrieve the bird 99.9 of the time over my Britt- interesting

you're saying your tracking Lab will find birds first- will it honor a Britt locked up- meaning stop and hold till the flush- then it's going to beat one that has held the bird-

I'll be out and about this year- care to meet up and see

 

[oldandnew]

I've never hunted with Gove's britts, but by the nature of his comments on this forum, I'm sure he knows his dogs, and has more than a few. I have more than a few britts of the french persuasion myself, and I'd bet that Gove's Lab will out retrieve the britts, his, mine, and yours. My chesapeakes will out retrieve the pointing dogs day in day out. I'm 56, hunted with pointers and setters my whole life, ( some who were hall of fame dogs), for hunting rank aged CRP, nothing beats a large flushing dog, that wind scents, AND foot trails pheasants. Problem is to get them in the air and find them dead, or crippled. cattails same problem. Pointers as a rule whether Britts, or GSP's or Cesky Fouseks, don't want to spend anytime in the interior of that kind of cover. Marking in cover which all looks the same is not their specialty. There are of course the individual dogs within any breed, which will do all the above.If you have one you better feed it at the table and tuck it in bed at night, and say your prayers of thanks, because generally retrievers and springers in my opinion, in truely dense rank cover are more effective. This from a pointing dog guy. Quail a whole different story. Meanwhile, come to Kansas, Nebraska, anywhere there are 160 acres of 20 year old crp, or Iowa where the only cover is an ice encrusted 20 acre cattail swamp, hunt a half day, and with your dog and tell us all about it. Your dog is going to be at heel, or within 20yards, wondering when your going to come to your senses and hunt the edge like any sane person. I've watched it 100's of times." Horses for courses" my friend.

 

[FCSpringer]

I would say you want balance between both, you want the dog to use the wind to point and work down wind, but you want them also to trail out a shot bird and retrieve it when that becomes his task. Pointing a cripple is kinda not what would be ideal. When the dog goes for a retrieve thats his job to come up with the bird. So they would have to know the difference.

 

[tmrichardson]

I would say you want balance between both, you want the dog to use the wind to point and work down wind, but you want them also to trail out a shot bird and retrieve it when that becomes his task. Pointing a cripple is kinda not what would be ideal. When the dog goes for a retrieve thats his job to come up with the bird. So they would have to know the difference.

Yep, it is as simple as that.

It can vary from species to species, but with wild pheasants a dog that hunts with it's head down on foot scent is going to either be bumping birds or pushing them a long ways on the ground most of the time. This really gets bad if they are in large acreage tight cover like cattails--I believe that is due to the strong scent of the bird itself being masked by the cover more than you have in shorter cover, but in any case it seems that dogs that do that often run right into birds if the birds do lock up and sit. That kind of cover is better worked by flushers.

Now narrow bands of cattails are great for pointing dogs, I'd leave the flushers at home for them but that's my choice...

 

[plainsman]

I would say you want balance between both, you want the dog to use the wind to point and work down wind, but you want them also to trail out a shot bird and retrieve it when that becomes his task. Pointing a cripple is kinda not what would be ideal. When the dog goes for a retrieve thats his job to come up with the bird. So they would have to know the difference.

This may be the smartest post so far :10sign:. I want a dog that has some track in it for wounded birds. If you shoot many pheasants you're going to have wounded runners and need some tracking ability. If you're dog can't track you're going to lose more birds than if he can, simple as that. BUT I sure don't want a dog with it's nose on the ground ALL the time.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I run both in the field all the time my britts wind them and my lab tracks and bar none hands down without a douvt 99.9% of the time my lab will find it first and if she sees the shot on the wounded bird I guarantee she will come back with it been proven many times

The Lab will have the better eye 90% of the time.(90 is my number as I have had two dogs out of twenty that marked just as well at good distances) If you go to a NAVHDA and watch the track tests you will get an idea of just how versitle the versitle breeds are. You can train for the track, but it is an instinct that has been bred.

As to the original questions, some dogs seem to tend to nose down or in the up in the wind. A good dog has the sense when to do which and experience helps.

 

[Shadow]

I've never hunted with Gove's britts, but by the nature of his comments on this forum, I'm sure he knows his dogs, and has more than a few. I have more than a few britts of the french persuasion myself, and I'd bet that Gove's Lab will out retrieve the britts, his, mine, and yours. My chesapeakes will out retrieve the pointing dogs day in day out. I'm 56, hunted with pointers and setters my whole life, ( some who were hall of fame dogs), for hunting rank aged CRP, nothing beats a large flushing dog, that wind scents, AND foot trails pheasants. Problem is to get them in the air and find them dead, or crippled. cattails same problem. Pointers as a rule whether Britts, or GSP's or Cesky Fouseks, don't want to spend anytime in the interior of that kind of cover. Marking in cover which all looks the same is not their specialty. There are of course the individual dogs within any breed, which will do all the above.If you have one you better feed it at the table and tuck it in bed at night, and say your prayers of thanks, because generally retrievers and springers in my opinion, in truely dense rank cover are more effective. This from a pointing dog guy. Quail a whole different story. Meanwhile, come to Kansas, Nebraska, anywhere there are 160 acres of 20 year old crp, or Iowa where the only cover is an ice encrusted 20 acre cattail swamp, hunt a half day, and with your dog and tell us all about it. Your dog is going to be at heel, or within 20yards, wondering when your going to come to your senses and hunt the edge like any sane person. I've watched it 100's of times." Horses for courses" my friend.

ok- I set here with a 1/2 mile by 1/2 field as my back yard- it's presently plowed and panted for wheat

you want to come down and show your dog is going to outretrieve mine 99.9% of the time- I could care less if it's a dummy and the dogs sit or it is wild roosters shot- your dog of course is expected to not fight because it didn't get there first- but we can let yours meet mine and they can determine that before hand- matter of fact- I have tennis balls- how far can you throw them- I'll let the two pups go first for a few times

we don't have water down here- or I'd say- nothing wrong with seeing about water retrieves

send me a PM- you want to bring a couple dogs- I'm game