Porcupines

J

Jerryv

Member
My yellow Lab and I had a bad experience with a porky last week in ND and I would like to hear what others have done.

We were hunting with some others in a very weedy sunflower field where there were quite a few birds. After flushing and retrieving a rooster she went on point by a tumbleweed. I walked over and just as I realized she was pointing a porcupine, she jumped on it. I got her away and shot it, but she was full of quills. I calmed her down and pulled dozens out of her mouth, chest and legs. She is a pretty mild dog and with some help I got most of them out. The ones in her leg seemed to be causing her some pain and she was getting anxious so I took her back to the house and got her to lie down for a while. Took out a couple more, but realized that some had disappeared.

A little research on the net indicates that the quills have a natural antibiotic on them and the barbs cause them to keep working forward. The original encounter was Thursday afternoon. Friday was mostly travel to get home so she was pretty immobile but limped whenever she walked.

Saturday I found a quill poking out of the side of her neck and extracted it. Two more were coming out of her leg so I pulled them out too. She is walking better today and acts a little tired, but pretty normal otherwise. I will be able to talk to the vet tomorrow, but thought I would see if others might have some insight. I did a search, but didn't find much in the forum.

Thanks in advance,
Jerry
 
Porkies

My GWP Lucy has tangled with 6 porkies in 4 seasons of hunting including one just last month. The quills can lead to an infection so get your dog on some amoxicillian from your vet. I am still pulling quills from Lucy from her last encounter. If you are on a trip Benadryl can help relieve swelling till you can get her to a vet. Start carrying a good pair of leatherman or surgical forcepts. To be on the safe side take her to vet as soon as you can. Many times quills break off and so they're difficult to find and pull. I have been lucky that I never had to take Lucy or any of my other dogs that tangled with porky to the vet. My sister is my vet and I just call and have her call the pharmacy for meds. Lucy still has a little swelling in her jaw after 10 days of amoxicillian but appears healthy otherwise. I hope your dog learns not to mess with porkies in the future, my EP Jessie learned after her 1st encounter. Lucy on the other had hasn't learned her lesson. http://www.ultimatepheasanthunting.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
 
Had 2 dogs get it the last weekend of September in South Dakota. First dog bit it so the inside of his mouth was pretty bad second dog just must have been in the wrong spot at the wrong time because she got swatted in the muzzle. After pulling as many as we could out if them in the field my father in law took the to the vet. Dog 1 the vet seemed to have no trouble with dog 2 had to be put under for a bit because he had to push them through because they were to short to pull out. The dogs were them prescribed antibiotics and the vet said they would be fine to hunt the next day and they were. A few days later a couple more quills started the work they way through the lip of dog 2 so he pulled them out with tweezers than on Saturday one worked out of dog 1. But other than that the dogs have been fine. We did find 2 more porcupines while we were out there but this time we were able to get some revenge for the dogs ;)
 
I had one dog quilled twice, never learned, she was sold to a non-porcine area. In the mouth and around the eyes, are the real danger. I did not shoot the Porcupines, nor the rattlesnakes I see on trail, for one thing they were where they are supposed to be! I like to keep wild areas wild, not a neighborhood park, so I try to be visitor. I assume The other has to do with dog reasoning, if you shoot it, the dog believes that it is a worthy prey, just like a pheasant, quail. grouse, not something to leave alone, but to encourage the next encounter. Even if you shoot them, there is sure no doubt the dog will not pounce and worry it, A rattlesnake and porcupine can be just as lethal dead or maimed. If you get excited, his ruckus drew you into the sport of the "game". Dozens of my pointers, and setters, learned to pay no attention to rattlesnakes, porcupines, skunks, with brief encounters. I said leave it, and paid no attention. Surely more satisfaction than pulling quills and rendering snakebite remedies in the field.
 
we have had bad encounters on numerous occasions over the years with porcupines. Maine, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Montana being the worst that I can recall. Although we have had run ins with them many other places. if you haven't already contacted your vet I would get your dog there asap to get looked at. those quills can have very serious consequences. I just returned from a hunting trip to Michigan U.P. tons of porcupines up there too but luckily we had no encounters with them and the dogs...I saw quite a few dead on the road....and that's a good place for them in my opinion. hope everything is ok with your pooch.
 
I would probably set up a visit with the vet, better to be safe than sorry. Hopefully the dogs learned from their encounter. My dog got quilled in the nose two years ago and brushed against one last year, but I think he's wised up. I shot 15 of them last year. All the landowners I've talked to prefer them dead as they can really do a number to livestock.
 
The quills travel because they are scaled like a fish (or maybe more like a tiny Christmas tree), not because of antibiotic or anything like that. If your dog gets quilled make sure to pull the ones near the neck and chest out first. They migrate and have killed lots of dogs (2 of my hunting buddies have lost dogs to porkies). Sometimes you hear of people trimming the ends of quills to 'release pressure' before pulling them. This is a complete myth and actually makes it harder to remove the quills and wastes time.
 
I appreciate the replies. She seems to be completely recovered now and no more quills have emerged. Hopefully she will leave the porkies alone in the future if we ever encounter another one. I generally always carry a leatherman in the field and will continue to do so. In hindsight, I should not have allowed her to walk to the car without extracting every visible quill. I did not realize they would migrate and she was getting pretty agitated.

I always thought they lived primarily in pine forests, but it looks like they are pretty widespread. They are probably more dangerous to dogs in the western areas because there are few trees for them to climb. I used to have a live and let live philosophy, but if I encounter one on the ground again, it probably won't survive.

Jerry
 
oldandnew said:
I had one dog quilled twice, never learned, she was sold to a non-porcine area. In the mouth and around the eyes, are the real danger. I did not shoot the Porcupines, nor the rattlesnakes I see on trail, for one thing they were where they are supposed to be! I like to keep wild areas wild, not a neighborhood park, so I try to be visitor. I assume The other has to do with dog reasoning, if you shoot it, the dog believes that it is a worthy prey, just like a pheasant, quail. grouse, not something to leave alone, but to encourage the next encounter. Even if you shoot them, there is sure no doubt the dog will not pounce and worry it, A rattlesnake and porcupine can be just as lethal dead or maimed. If you get excited, his ruckus drew you into the sport of the "game". Dozens of my pointers, and setters, learned to pay no attention to rattlesnakes, porcupines, skunks, with brief encounters. I said leave it, and paid no attention. Surely more satisfaction than pulling quills and rendering snakebite remedies in the field.
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Oldandnew,

Is spot on, on this IMHO. Better get that dog to a vet asap. You don't want to shoot the prok. if you don't have to. Sorry about the dog. It happens and most of us have been there. point is you want it to be a bad experience for the dog, so it will not want to go there again.

I had to shoot a Bobcat once because my pup wouldn't back off. I had one heck of a time, trying to keep that dog, from chasing them. This is before Shock collars where around much.

Best of luck with your dog. Let us know how it turns out.:)
 
i shoot as many porcupines as i can the less the better!!! your dog in theory should know when your hunting birds & when your not??? im a dont like to make the wilderness a park either type hunter but wear i hunt there is no need for porcupines they can live every wear else!!!??? i see them in trees all the time in MN & have to blast them out if they are in ruffed grouse terrain if not for my dog for the next hunters dog point blank period!!! if they are not in ruffed grouse or pheasant terrain or habitat i will leave them be!!! but they are fair game if they are in upland territory i incourage all upland hunters to do the same if the can!!! id appreciate it as much as possibele in ND SD NE & MN thanks the porcupines will be fine if we blast a few out of the upland bird prairies they are not in trouble pheasants are in much more danger...
 
Kill em all and let God sort em out.

Jerry keep an eye on the dog quills work there way out sometimes months later. Other times an abscess will form around the quill and need to be slit and drained.
 
oldandnew said:
I had one dog quilled twice, never learned, she was sold to a non-porcine area. In the mouth and around the eyes, are the real danger. I did not shoot the Porcupines, nor the rattlesnakes I see on trail, for one thing they were where they are supposed to be! I like to keep wild areas wild, not a neighborhood park, so I try to be visitor. I assume The other has to do with dog reasoning, if you shoot it, the dog believes that it is a worthy prey, just like a pheasant, quail. grouse, not something to leave alone, but to encourage the next encounter. Even if you shoot them, there is sure no doubt the dog will not pounce and worry it, A rattlesnake and porcupine can be just as lethal dead or maimed. If you get excited, his ruckus drew you into the sport of the "game". Dozens of my pointers, and setters, learned to pay no attention to rattlesnakes, porcupines, skunks, with brief encounters. I said leave it, and paid no attention. Surely more satisfaction than pulling quills and rendering snakebite remedies in the field.
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Old and new has got it. The first dog I ever owned was a first class vermin retriever...skunks, possums, housecats. A simple leave it might work for the possums. The skunks, I'd take off running. Screaming and hollaring, like the field was on fire and she was carrying satan himself!

She'd drop it and follow.
 
quils

i have been through this little problem quite a few times. it is rare that a dog will get infected from a quill. the quills are in fact coated in an antibiotic, thus the reason for a very very low infection rate, the quills do have the ability to travel through and within the dog and that may be a problem. the vet, while he can calm down the dog one way or the other, is likely to miss as many of the quills as you do. he, basically has no real means to locate them that you don't. there is no magic in removing them, while myths abound, carry some pliers and pull them out. one thing my dogs have always learned about porkies is that the last one they attacked made them so miserable that they would try and kill the next one. so much for learned behavior. frequently if the quill has disappeared under the skin, the hard part of the quill can still be located by feeling and then pushed through, many dogs will realize that you are trying to help them and will remain sort of calm, the nose is kinda touchy though, the one's in the mouth and skin, the easiest. hunt corn stalks, porkies don't like them

cheers
 
I looked at a couple of the quills under a microscope and they are quite interesting. The pointed end is very sharp and is covered with little barbs almost like scales. Then the body of the quill is hollow like a feather quill. The barbs are only on the first 1/4 - 3/8 inch of the pointed end so I think when that much pokes back out the quill will stop moving and must be pulled out.

I wish I had pulled the ones from her leg first as those were in muscle and the most likely to migrate. You are right that the ones around the mouth pull out easier. I took most of them out with my fingers.

Jerry
 
mustistuff said:
i have been through this little problem quite a few times. it is rare that a dog will get infected from a quill. the quills are in fact coated in an antibiotic, thus the reason for a very very low infection rate, the quills do have the ability to travel through and within the dog and that may be a problem. the vet, while he can calm down the dog one way or the other, is likely to miss as many of the quills as you do. he, basically has no real means to locate them that you don't. there is no magic in removing them, while myths abound, carry some pliers and pull them out. one thing my dogs have always learned about porkies is that the last one they attacked made them so miserable that they would try and kill the next one. so much for learned behavior. frequently if the quill has disappeared under the skin, the hard part of the quill can still be located by feeling and then pushed through, many dogs will realize that you are trying to help them and will remain sort of calm, the nose is kinda touchy though, the one's in the mouth and skin, the easiest. hunt corn stalks, porkies don't like them

cheers
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I have to admit I thought you were making stuff up when I read your post about porcupine quills being covered in antibioitic. It sounds like some sort of old wives tail, imagine my surprise when I looked up some research papers that say the same thing. I guess you learn something new every day. Have you ever seen a porcupine den tree? They are so full of poop I would have thought every quill would be like a miniture pungi stick, but like you mention I have never had a quilled dog develop an infection.
 
Update

She was doing pretty good until about 5 days after the encounter, but then started limping and obviously was not feeling well. A swelling had developed on her leg where the quills had been.

I took her into the doggie ER and they sedated her and shaved her front legs to check for quills. They extracted the tip of one from the swelling, but didn't find any more. She has been on antibiotics since then and will be for another week. Almost back to normal now except for the shaved legs (it will take a while for the hair to grow back). She is snoring beside me as I write this.

I understand that there is still the chance of more quills migrating around inside, but I am hopeful that there will be no more ill effects. The vet said they could take x-rays, but probably couldn't find them that way.

Jerry
 
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