Pointing labs

[Gatzby]

Wouldnt you say the dogs are being asked to do alot more then they were 10 to 20 years ago.

Think about it? Do you think the FC AFC dogs in the 90s could compete with the dogs of today ? With the new training methods and quick corrections the dogs are so much farther ahead now and are pushed alot more now then then because of longer retrieves and blinds in Trials, Heck i run hunt tests and still run 200 yard marks and 300 yard blinds, just to know i have control that far away,,,,,,,

Now I am really thinking! What would happen if you took a great from the past like Lottie, lean Mac, or Deltone Colvin and used today's methods and tools????? I like to think they would kick Grady, Boo, and Finn's butt! I should check but I think all three are Lean Mac siblings......

 

[morrismike]

I currantly am finishing/proofing TT with my pup. I went back through the last 12 training sessions (about 6 days) . I keep a log detailing all good/bad behaviors, corrections given, and a diagram of each set up ran for every training session. I gave a 4 low nick and a 4 med nick on a slow whistle sits during a TT session (when the 4 med didn't get results I didn't nag I upped the stim...problem solved). I gave a 6 low nick (big correction) for a complete blow off of a heel command. I told pup to heel as we walked by a bird drying rack and he pretty much gave me the finger. That is 3 nicks in 12 sessions! Granted much more stimulation is used during force to pile or water etc. But if a behavior is shaped solidly through attrition very little stimulation will be neceassary. I bet more electricity is used on opening day in SD by a bunch of uninformed hunters with untrained dogs than is used by pro trainers the rest of the year. And the real trainers get results from the collar not just a heel licking dog.

As for FT breedings damaging the integrity of the breed their maybe some truth. Torn ACL's are getting more commen and their appears to possibly be a genetic component.....Can this traced back to Lean Mac???? maybe, some people believe so. As for health clearances FT breeders are way ahead of the curve period. I believe the worst damage is being caused by the labs popularity with the general public and many breeders desire to cash in. All these fashionable new colors and traits with out a single concern as to wether the dog or bitch has god hips, eyes, elbows etc.

In all AKC hunt tests, AKC Field Trials, and HRC tests the dogs are required to run naked (no e collar). In juniors/started a flat buckle collar and lead is allowed in the blinds up to the line.

Steve

PS I am getting sick of this weather......

I hate the weather too.

You seem pretty mild as a trainer and I like that (we both know a lot of lab guys that aren't I would bet). I would agree that a collar is often misused by people that don't train - I keep it on my dog for skunks, coyotes, traffic, and those rare instances she needs to stop what she is doing now - pursuit of skunks and hogs seem to override voice commands. I would agree on the health certs (main reason I sought out a FT pup). I would also agree on the "cashing in" thing too. Most of the those bashing on the show ring and FTing are truly concerned about the future of the breed.

No one is more critical of show ring chessies (that aren't hunters) than a chessie owner that hunts or tests so this isn't a lab bashing session.

 

[keskam]

I hate the weather too.

You seem pretty mild as a trainer and I like that (we both know a lot of lab guys that aren't I would bet). I would agree that a collar is often misused by people that don't train - I keep it on my dog for skunks, coyotes, traffic, and those rare instances she needs to stop what she is doing now - pursuit of skunks and hogs seem to override voice commands. I would agree on the health certs (main reason I sought out a FT pup). I would also agree on the "cashing in" thing too. Most of the those bashing on the show ring and FTing are truly concerned about the future of the breed.

No one is more critical of show ring chessies (that aren't hunters) than a chessie owner that hunts or tests so this isn't a lab bashing session.

I have to agree with you, If you understand the collar it is not a punishment tool, and for somebody that doesnt use it alot that is the way it is used,
Distance errodes control, so this is were the e-collar is a great tool, when the dog gets 200 yards out it has a tendency to not take a command as well, timing with the collar is crucial, if you have it in your pocket it is to late, and it doesnt need to be on a high level to get there attention,

Gatzby, I was taking to a elder gentlemen in his 70s the other day he was a field trialer, he trained with Lean Mac quite often, he said he was not a good training dog during the week, but when he was in the spotlight he shined!!
His weakest points were his waterblinds, but those dogs back then most likely had alot of voice and other pressure then the collar, which took alot more time to train them IMO, I cant imagine Lottie trained in todays standards,,,, she wouldnt be able to have enough pups ,,,,,