Pointer or flusher debate

Who closes the distance faster, on a wild running rooster, to get it to flush?

  • Total voters
    9
S

SDhunter86

New member
Hey-
I wanted to get few peoples opinion on this one... I have a British lab and we primary hunt wild birds on heavily hunted public land. He has been absolutely wonderful hunting /family dog. Great drive in the field with unbelievable retrieving skills and a flusher that is like a heat seeking missile. I love watching him chase up a wild running pheasant (I for now, in my younger years, can keep up to get a shot off). My only complaint of a British lab is that he sheds like a woolly mammoth and my wife is slightly allergic to it. He is getting older now and can only go for 1 day at a time now.
I'm looking into getting another dog, and I'm torn between a another British lab and a pudelpointer. I know I would overall be happy with either but the thing I worry about is hunting wild smart roosters is that they run like crazy to increase the distance before flushing. Yes in some conditions, they hold tight (heavy snow, high wind, crazy cold with high wind, very thick cover), but this is rare. I'd say most of the roosters I shoot are because my lab can close the distance of a wild running rooster very quickly. He turns into a deranged animal when he gets on a scent trail.
I'm just worried that a pudelpointer or any kind of pointer will point on the area where the bird WAS held up at, but in that very moment, that wild bird is in a full sprint away from us and then flushes out of range. I'm amazed on how these wild birds can sense us coming in. We come in stealth mode and they have like a 6th sense and they are running hard to get out of range and then flush.
Sorry, this has turned into a long post. I know I'm biased on flushers but I'm trying to be open minded. Your comments/thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!
 
I think what you are asking is almost impossible to answer. My guess would be that there are many pointers here that do really well with repositioning and staying on running birds and some that point where the bird was. I am partial to flushers since that is what I have always had. This may be a fun thread to watch!
 
Don't know. My experience with other dogs, especially pointers, is pretty limited. I see videos & hear talk of point-move-point-move-point-maybe catch up-maybe never do. Don't know how prevalent that scenario is across all pointing breeds & levels of experience/training. I've never personally seen a pointer trail a running bird as quickly as some labs/springers I've seen. With my own dog (& previous dogs), how I handle the situation varies. Sometimes I'll try to keep up. When I can't, or am just not in the mood for an old, out of shape guy sprint, sometimes I let him go; sometimes I feel it's best to stop him.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Don't know. My experience with other dogs, especially pointers, is pretty limited. I see videos & hear talk of point-move-point-move-point-maybe catch up-maybe never do. Don't know how prevalent that scenario is across all pointing breeds & levels of experience/training. I've never personally seen a pointer trail a running bird as quickly as some labs/springers I've seen. With my own dog (& previous dogs), how I handle the situation varies. Sometimes I'll try to keep up. When I can't, or am just not in the mood for an old, out of shape guy sprint, sometimes I let him go; sometimes I feel it's best to stop him.
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You nailed it as far as my experiences. I think the only real difference is that the pointer people probably have a higher percentage of hitting since they are not out of breath when the bird gets up. Personally I like my dog working where we can make eye contact every so often, I realize that a dog working out a couple hundred yards will probably find more birds, but it is not as much fun for me.
 
Pointing lab? Mine points (and the guys that I hunt with who have PL’s do too (4x GMPR’s and TC dogs)) when the bird is absolutely not moving, otherwise flushing game on. My dog has no APLA certifications. My multiple hunting buddies dogs do have the certifications. They all hunt upland similarly. The points that happen are very cool, but are infrequent. I hunt primarily in Colorado which is not a pheasant rich state. Golden Hour’s lab Sage points and flushes. Check out his videos at JCW Outdoors on YouTube.
 
If you're hunting at bird ranches, a flusher may be preferable. But with the scarcity of wild birds now (but maybe not in dakota), if you're going to hunt the wild ones a wide ranging pointing dog seems better - covers so much more area. The pointing dog casts way out - keep it where you can see it - and then points. And away you go to the point.
 
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I have pointers and they will point and move and point again and sometimes if I let them go they will trail the bird until it flush’s. There’s no way I can keep up with them when they do that, they are moving at least 10-20 mph at that point. Rarely do I get a shot at running birds. So I prefer a bird on point.
 
I've had Labs, Springers and now Brittanys for the past almost 30 years. A good pointing dog will learn to reposition if the birds runs out from under their point. My previous Brittany was great at it. If she was on point and the bird had moved on her she would wiat until I got close, then turn and look to make sure I was there and then trail the bird until she had it locked down. Sometimes we'd go through that process several times before the bird helf for a shot. She was a blast to hunt behind. My current Brittany has gotten pretty good at doing that also.

With your wife being allergic to your Labs hair (and I know all about how bad Labs shed) you might be better off with a wire haired breed. I had flushing dogs for over 20 years but after I got my first Brittany I could never go back to a flusher. There's just something about the "Point".
 
SDhunter86 said:
He is getting older now and can only go for 1 day at a time now.
I'm looking into getting another dog, and I'm torn between a another British lab and a pudelpointer. I know I would overall be happy with either but the thing I worry about is hunting wild smart roosters is that they run like crazy to increase the distance before flushing. Yes in some conditions, they hold tight (heavy snow, high wind, crazy cold with high wind, very thick cover), but this is rare. I'd say most of the roosters I shoot are because my lab can close the distance of a wild running rooster very quickly. He turns into a deranged animal when he gets on a scent trail.
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I'm also a British lab owner, mine turns 13 later this month.

The only time period she ranged too far consistently was her second season. I fixed that with some e-collar training. It's rare that she is beyond about 20 yards of me since that season. I know what you mean by trying to keep up sometimes to get off a shot though. Good luck with the decision.
 
A pointer generally won't flush. My Brittany and I were working through some varying cover on a big "island" in a row crop field. We got to a good sized plum thicket when his bell stopped ringing. Point. I waited for about a minute for whatever it was to flush out. But nothing, just silence. Quail I figured. I started encouraging my dog to flush. But pointers don't have that in their DNA. I kept encouraging the dog over and over, "Get 'em up!" Finally the dog moved on it and a big cock came thrashing out of the thicket.
 
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Bigdave said:
I have pointers and they will point and move and point again and sometimes if I let them go they will trail the bird until it flush’s. There’s no way I can keep up with them when they do that, they are moving at least 10-20 mph at that point. Rarely do I get a shot at running birds. So I prefer a bird on point.
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Perhaps my most satisfying shot ever was when my dog was trailing a bird atop a long hill in CRP. It was a mild sunny day. My dog would point, trail, point, trail, point, trail, on and on for maybe 250-300 yards. I was younger then and able to keep up but panting for breath. Finally the bird flushed, it was in range, and I bagged it. Tremendous satisfaction in my dog and myself. It was a rare occasion to get a shot in such circumstances.
 
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I did not vote because I am a pointer guy who does not want my dog to put a running bird up in the air. I will say in general pointers work ground quicker until they hit scent and then they should work slower so as to not put the bird up.

Pointer vs flusher is a preference and there is no right/wrong answer. That said, I believe some scenarios are more suited to one or the other.

If you go with a pointing breed, accept that it is a different style of hunting. I know guys who run pointing breeds who don't let the dog range more than 25 yards which is counter productive to the dogs skill set in my opinion.
 
Chemist: "I know guys who run pointing breeds who don't let the dog range more than 25 yards which is counter productive to the dogs skill set in my opinion." Agree. If I can see my dog or hear the bell, she's close enough. A pointing breed is capable of covering so much more area, why constrain it, especially in this time of fewer birds. BTW, I didn't vote either.
 
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I run a track & train on my Lab, it was introduced to her at about 5 months old, and I bought it because she would get a stubborn streak and would just not come when called. I ordered a Garmin 300i with a T25 collar. When it showed up I charged everything up and we went for a walk, got back to the house, time to go in, she locks up about 50yds away and gives me the look of I’m not ready to go in, hit the tone button and called her again, she’s still looking at me as usual, hit the tone button, called her, no response, she got the first pinch, she jumped and looked at me, as if to say WTF was that, hit the tone button, called her, no response, cranked the juice up on the hand held and zapped her good, haven’t had a issue since… i now use it to keep her close, worked like a charm in Montana last fall, hit the tone button, she’d pop out of the fence row till we got closer and I’d send her back in,.
All bets are off if she sees the bird running
 
chemist said:
I did not vote because I am a pointer guy who does not want my dog to put a running bird up in the air. I will say in general pointers work ground quicker until they hit scent and then they should work slower so as to not put the bird up.

Pointer vs flusher is a preference and there is no right/wrong answer. That said, I believe some scenarios are more suited to one or the other.

If you go with a pointing breed, accept that it is a different style of hunting. I know guys who run pointing breeds who don't let the dog range more than 25 yards which is counter productive to the dogs skill set in my opinion.
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It's kind of like when I see someone that is older and saying they want a pointing dog that works closer. In my opinion that is the opposite of how they should be thinking. As I've gotten older I want a dog that can cover a lot of ground because I can't do it myself anymore. But you do need a dog that is steady and will hold point until you get there.
 
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