Planted birds

Thrasher

Thrasher

Member
Took Molly out to a preserve again this morning to get here on a few more birds. She scented the first bird just fine and while she did not actually point, she stopped and looked, looking for the bird, and homed in on it about 5 feet from her. I let the bird get out quite a ways and she made a great retrieve even though she did not see the bird land.

On the second bird, she scented it again, and it flushed about 10 feet in front of her while I was trying to get everything on camera. I put the camera away, took the shot, and missed (I thought). The bird flew back the way we had just walked with Molly chasing after it. I finally got her back after a couple of hundred yard chase. I thought we would just hunt it down after working to the last two birds at the end of the field. We kept moving and she found the third bird. She pointed it for about a few seconds, and then sat down. She turned her head to look at me, and then reached out her foot and started scratching at the bird. It flushed and she made another good retrieve.

The fourth bird flushed from a weak point. Another good retrieve. I think the issue with her scenting the locking on point is that the birds are set 15-20 minutes before I turn her out and have left no scent to track. She gets close and then has issues pinpointing the birds.

We worked our way back the way we had come, looking for the bird that got away. We hunted the area that I thought it had landed for 45 minutes. Molly kept wanting to leave the end of the field and go out into the plowed field next to the area we were hunting. After 3 times through the section I decided to go down a little farther and then give up if we had not found it. after walking down another 50 yards or so, Molly again leaves the grass and acts birdy in the plowed field, she has her nose high and is working the wind, so I just stand there and watch her. She works 20 yards into the wind, turns around to look at me, and sits down. I walked over and the last bird was lying dead at her feet.

It was a beautiful day to be out doing anything, but working with Molly made it perfect.
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She is 15 months old now.

I feel good about her first season. We have figured out birds. I just wish I knew more about training her. She started pointing on the last day of the season, on wild birds. I have been trying to build this in her, but am not sure what I am doing.
 
If you are wanting her to point for you you must teach her whoa. This can be done pretty easily with a whoa stake and a lot of patients. She is young and will need some time but she will get it. Focus on the journey not the and result and you will have a ton of fun. Just look up whoa training on YouTube and you will be in business. Good luck and have fun.
 
Thrasher said:
She is 15 months old now.

I feel good about her first season. We have figured out birds. I just wish I knew more about training her. She started pointing on the last day of the season, on wild birds. I have been trying to build this in her, but am not sure what I am doing.
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There are lots of good methods for training. But you will do best picking one method and sticking to it.

I have used the book "Training with Mo" with good success.
 
Whoa has nothing to do with pointing. Dogs point on instinct not some human word. My guys are never taught whoa. And do just fine.
 
V-John said:
Whoa has nothing to do with pointing. Dogs point on instinct not some human word. My guys are never taught whoa. And do just fine.
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Agreed. Even still I use whoa to I guess control them during all the excitement. I was more so trying to hit home the point that she pauses and with a little whoa training he could prolong the pause. I'm sure that through more bird exposure she will grow much more. It will also do you more justice to shoot only pointed birds to reinforce this instinct early on and to develop a stronger point. Only you know what you really want so make yourself happy.
 
Whoa'ing a dog into a point is counter productive in the long run. What are you going to do when they are 100+ yards out.


The dog has to learn that the birds are going to fly off if they move (once on point).

An easy way to get the dog to learn this is with a launcher. If the dog moves, you launch the bird. Be sure that you uses birds that fly off. (like pigeons) You want the dog to learn that once they fly they are gone, and the only way they are going to get a bird is you shooting them when they point and hold the bird.

And a Check Cord is your best friend when they are young :D
 
SetterNut said:
Whoa'ing a dog into a point is counter productive in the long run. What are you going to do when they are 100+ yards out.


The dog has to learn that the birds are going to fly off if they move (once on point).

An easy way to get the dog to learn this is with a launcher. If the dog moves, you launch the bird. Be sure that you uses birds that fly off. (like pigeons) You want the dog to learn that once they fly they are gone, and the only way they are going to get a bird is you shooting them when they point and hold the bird.

And a Check Cord is your best friend when they are young :D
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I like this why didn't I think of that;) I guess at only 27 I'm still green. I like hearing from you guys that a whole lot more experience than I do. I will be sure to add this to my bag of tricks. Just curious how long does it generally take for a fresh pup? Just trying to get a sense of how many pigeons I may need.
 
the only time i use whoa is when they are already on point and i am walking in for the flush thats it
 
HUNTIN4FUN said:
I like this why didn't I think of that;) I guess at only 27 I'm still green. I like hearing from you guys that a whole lot more experience than I do. I will be sure to add this to my bag of tricks. Just curious how long does it generally take for a fresh pup? Just trying to get a sense of how many pigeons I may need.
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It really depends on the pup. Some of them will stand their birds without much bird exposure at all. They will let you walk out front of them without them coming in with you to flush the bird.

You are going to go through a pretty good number (dozens) depending on the pup and the level of training you are after.

If you can catch or trap wild pigeons that is a good way to go, or get homing pigeons and keep them in a loft. This will keep the cost down.

The other thing that is good is if you have wild quail around. They will teach the pup quickly that they can't move in on the birds. But you have a little less control of the flush. But the pup is not going to catch any of them which is really important.

I would not recommend using pen raised quail with a older pup. unless they are the only thing you have. They just don't fly well or far enough.
 
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It sounds to me like you have the makings of a good hunting buddy there. She's a lab/weim cross, right? So she might have a ton of natural point, or maybe that instinct is not really strong in her.

If she doesn't show a strong desire to point the planted pheasants, I wouldn't write her off as a pointing dog. Your dog is smelling the pants and boots of the guy who just planted the bird, not to mention the smell of the pen and box the pheasant has been in, and I have read that some trainers also believe a planted bird has the smell of being in shock.

My GWP does a really half-hearted point on planted pheasants, whereas she is very intense on wild birds. My former Golden flushed wild birds with a lot of style, but tended to slowly creep in on planted birds like he would sneak in and pounce at the last second. I have heard it is because the dog can smell that the bird is in shock and they think it is a wounded bird. I don't know if that's the true reason or not, but it's as plausible as anything I can think of.

You got plenty of good advice there, so I won't add anything there... Just saying that your dog's reaction to a planted pheasant doesn't always give you the whole picture of how she will handle wild birds. If she acts funny on these preserve birds, maybe she is just a smart dog and realizes that something is "up" with these birds compared to the ones she was hunting with you in December and January.
 
Gove County Britts said:
the only time i use whoa is when they are already on point and i am walking in for the flush thats it
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How come? The dog is already stopped.

It's like telling a dog to sit, even though he's already sitting.

It's cool though. I know a lot of guys that do that, and just always questioned why.
 
Gove County Britts said:
i do it to reinforce them staying there and not creeping with me
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I see a lot of people do it that way.

I tend not to say anything (if I can keep my mouth shut). If its in training with a launcher I launch the bird as soon as they move, and put them back without saying anything. Then work on making them stand still before moving to another launcher.
 
I do not say anything to my dog when he is in point. I expect him to hold point till I get to him without saying whoa and allow me to flush the bird. I feel if you train your dog this way from the start it avoids issues down the road. The more you keep your mouth closed the better off you are. Talking to your dog when he is on point disrupts their concentration.

Pen raised birds have a totally different smell than wild birds, they eat different food than wild birds and a wild birds feathers have more oil on them to repell moisture to mention just a couple things.Planted quail do not act like wild birds nor are they planted most times where you usually would find wild birds.
 
If you plant them right they grow within a few minutes. I think I planted a few upside down, nothing was there when I got back. I guess they just didn't grow.:D

Maybe that is what happened in my area. All of the pheasant seeds were planted upside down!!:eek:

On a more serious note, I have come to the conclusion that I have been handling Molly wrong when she points. I have been staying back and taking pictures. I think that I should immediately move in and flush the bird. I have been concentrating on Molly pinpointing the bird down to the last foot or so, which is unrealistic in hunting wild birds. On wild birds, if she points and holds within 10-15 feet and does not flush the birds, I think that that is enough.
 
Don't get in a huge hurry to flush the birds. You don't want the dog to feel like it's a race to get the bird up in the air. She might start trying to flush them on her own...

But yeah, there's no need to fart around once the dog goes on point.

So, is she holding her point from 15 feet away, or is she catwalking until she gets within a foot of the bird?
 
The few times she pointed on wild birds, she locked up and did not move a muscle. On the planted birds, she holds scents the bird and looks at me for a second, turns her head back towards the bird and sniffs the air. Part of it may be that the birds have not been out long and the smell is not strong. She will not creep forward for a few minutes.

The last hunt on wild birds was the first time she had pointed, and she did great on the first rooster she pointed. She then tracked down a hen that flushed a few feet in front of her. She then pointed a second rooster that held until I flushed it.
 
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