Hello all, 1st post here. I am a very experienced hunter but not very experienced hunting upland birds. I am going on a lottery hunt (wild birds) here in Indiana this Saturday with my father and son. We do not have a dog and you are not allowed to bring over 3 people even if they are not hunting. What's the best approach for hunting with no dog?
Pheasants without a dog
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In order to respond to this message, I would need a bit more information: what kind of cover are you hunting? Will you be close to groups that have dogs?
Would avoid huge crp fields if possible and work small areas that you can surround. Also, work the edges vs the middle of fields.
Walk slow and stop often; this will make the birds nervous and fly.
Good Luck!
Would avoid huge crp fields if possible and work small areas that you can surround. Also, work the edges vs the middle of fields.
Walk slow and stop often; this will make the birds nervous and fly.
Good Luck!
Here is what I know. We will be the only ones hunting the property. It is 135 of grasses and a crop filed or 2 it looks like from the aerial. Mostly a rectangular piece or property.
12gaugedust
New member
Yep your deff going to need a dog! Plus with a dog it makes it fun, and entertaining.
ive been in your shoes, the wide expanses of SD and only three ppl to walk it all...but we still have plenty of chances to shoot at roosters.
try and find small areas that yall can work. 75 yards wide or below and just push em to an area that they will have no choice but to flush. Push into the corners of the fields, close them in. Find tree rows, corn rows or fence lines that one person can go down to the end and block while the other two walk aloing each side pushing.
Change it up, when pheasants get into an area and they learn an ecscape route they will use that same route every time until it no longer works, then they get confused and may flush then. When you come up to a field think about where other hunters probebly started the field and then go to the opposite side and start there.
With no dog, you got to out wit the roosters. Its not easy to do but it can be done if your patiant.
try and find small areas that yall can work. 75 yards wide or below and just push em to an area that they will have no choice but to flush. Push into the corners of the fields, close them in. Find tree rows, corn rows or fence lines that one person can go down to the end and block while the other two walk aloing each side pushing.
Change it up, when pheasants get into an area and they learn an ecscape route they will use that same route every time until it no longer works, then they get confused and may flush then. When you come up to a field think about where other hunters probebly started the field and then go to the opposite side and start there.
With no dog, you got to out wit the roosters. Its not easy to do but it can be done if your patiant.
quanah labs
New member
Well all I can say is good luck! Enjoy the time in the outdoors with your family and think of it as a fun way to get some exercise in from all the walking you will be doing.
I have went to both Kansas and Texas panhandle the last few years without a dog, and I have yet to bring home a wild pheasant. A couple of years ago in Kansas there were birds everywhere but with it just being me and my brother walking the fields we had very few flushes, especially on roosters. Those dang roosters are so smart and elusive that they really just don't flush unless you either step on them by mistake or have a dog about to bite them.
After going two years without a dog, and a rooster, I decided to go out and get a bird dog, and its been the best decision I have ever made. It makes hunting so much more enjoyable now, and it almost forces me to get off the couch more and hunt because its hard to look at your dog and say I'm too lazy today to get out and do anything, sorry.
The only real advice I can give you is to stop often while your out in the field, the few flushes we did get was while we were standing still trying to catch our breath and waiting for our legs to stop hurting, it seems to make the birds nervous causing them to panic and flush. So while your pausing be ready, because every time we did get a flush we were not at all ready for it causing us to miss.
I have went to both Kansas and Texas panhandle the last few years without a dog, and I have yet to bring home a wild pheasant. A couple of years ago in Kansas there were birds everywhere but with it just being me and my brother walking the fields we had very few flushes, especially on roosters. Those dang roosters are so smart and elusive that they really just don't flush unless you either step on them by mistake or have a dog about to bite them.
After going two years without a dog, and a rooster, I decided to go out and get a bird dog, and its been the best decision I have ever made. It makes hunting so much more enjoyable now, and it almost forces me to get off the couch more and hunt because its hard to look at your dog and say I'm too lazy today to get out and do anything, sorry.
The only real advice I can give you is to stop often while your out in the field, the few flushes we did get was while we were standing still trying to catch our breath and waiting for our legs to stop hurting, it seems to make the birds nervous causing them to panic and flush. So while your pausing be ready, because every time we did get a flush we were not at all ready for it causing us to miss.
Kismet
UPH Guru
Bring water, that walk gets long.
Previous posts pretty much tell you how to go about it. If you can, walk the field in a zig-zag pattern, with brush or a fence-row, or some other cover at the end. The birds will move to it. As often as not, you will be moving both towards and away from a bird and it will seek refuge in the brush or fence row.
If all sides are open, figure the birds will first try to sit it out, then when they move, they'll go until the open field confronts them. If you are fortunate (and we all need good fortune,) they will flush as you approach the open end.
Best wishes. Have fun.
Previous posts pretty much tell you how to go about it. If you can, walk the field in a zig-zag pattern, with brush or a fence-row, or some other cover at the end. The birds will move to it. As often as not, you will be moving both towards and away from a bird and it will seek refuge in the brush or fence row.
If all sides are open, figure the birds will first try to sit it out, then when they move, they'll go until the open field confronts them. If you are fortunate (and we all need good fortune,) they will flush as you approach the open end.
Best wishes. Have fun.
Since everyone else is being so negative, I thought I would offer something a bit more optimistic. While I mostly hunt with a dog, I also hunt alone 90% of the time. And as my dogs have gotten older (or the temp is warmer), I will leave them in the truck and go out to fend for myself. Over many years, I can say the birds in the bag hasn't varied much with/without the dog. I probably see more birds with, and they are certainly great to have for the retrieve at a minimum, but you can do it without!
Snipet covered most of the specific strategic points I would make, but I would add that big fields CAN be hunted by small, dog-less groups. Do NOT walk straight lines, stop/start a lot, and even run in short bursts - anything to unnerve the birds. It's easy to chop of a corner and work it like a smaller property, but I would say it's even more important to look for any kind of structural changes in the field and devise strategies to work with them, i.e., thin-to-thick cover changes, walking against the grain of the rows instead of with, etc. In particular, any rise or hill can be great to work with; if it's big enough, sneak over it and once on the other side, walk a quick zig-zag route - that can often get a bird up in range. More than once I've worked quarter-sections or larger by myself and limited out within a few hundred yards! (And no, I've never gotten a triple).
Good luck!
Snipet covered most of the specific strategic points I would make, but I would add that big fields CAN be hunted by small, dog-less groups. Do NOT walk straight lines, stop/start a lot, and even run in short bursts - anything to unnerve the birds. It's easy to chop of a corner and work it like a smaller property, but I would say it's even more important to look for any kind of structural changes in the field and devise strategies to work with them, i.e., thin-to-thick cover changes, walking against the grain of the rows instead of with, etc. In particular, any rise or hill can be great to work with; if it's big enough, sneak over it and once on the other side, walk a quick zig-zag route - that can often get a bird up in range. More than once I've worked quarter-sections or larger by myself and limited out within a few hundred yards! (And no, I've never gotten a triple).
Good luck!
carptom1
Well-known member
While I won't be negative about finding birds, what I will say is your chances of finding cripples is greatly reduced. Limit long shots and get good marks on the bird. It is important that you immediately get to the spot and mark with a hat or other article. Wounded pheasants are resourceful at hiding before death. If the cover is extremely thick, you may get birds on the ground but never recover them. That is worse, for me, than not seeing or shooting them. I know of the two trips I have made this year, many birds would not have been recovered if not for the dogs. If you follow the advice above, you should be OK. Most people walk fields waaaaay too fast. If you think you are going slow, slow down some more. Remember, those birds you see pushing out the ends you won't catch no matter how fast you run. I beleive in posting a blocker when I can, seems to help a bunch. Good luck and have fun. It can be fairly addicting.
wisturkeyhunter
New member
Be as silent as possible right out of the vehicle.
Hunt strips or islands of better cover within the field. Low areas with good cover are great.
Stop and pause once in a while.
Get to a down bird as fast as possible and shoot again if a bird as still alive on his way down. Don't expect a bird to be where he fell.
I'd recommend at least an 1 1/4 of number 4,5,or 6 shot shot,light modified or tighter choke.
Hunt strips or islands of better cover within the field. Low areas with good cover are great.
Stop and pause once in a while.
Get to a down bird as fast as possible and shoot again if a bird as still alive on his way down. Don't expect a bird to be where he fell.
I'd recommend at least an 1 1/4 of number 4,5,or 6 shot shot,light modified or tighter choke.
BritChaser
Well-known member
Send your son through the heaviest cover. 
ha! this reminds me of one of my hunts...
alot of good points in this thread, be positive and yall will find em!
Carptom makes some great points - when hunting without a dog, BE SURE OF YOUR SHOT, because 9 x out of 10, you won't find the cripple. And when I mentioned running, I only meant run for short bursts, and stop and be silent for a minute or so. This has been very effective for me when I know I'm close to birds, but they're sneaking around me. But in general, go slooow!
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
10pt sounds like your hunting one of the Indiana pheasant properties. If so I know the rule is 3 hunters but I do not know if you can bring a dog guide.
If you can and it is Indiana send me a PM. I don't care about shooting birds but I like to get my dogs work.
I did one of those properties earlier this season and hunted next to one of them another time. Three guys and no dog is going to be really tough to see anything unless the property is just full. We worked a 60 ac piece for three hours and found 4 birds.
The spot we hunted next to one of those properties my dogs pointed at least a dozen birds.
If you can and it is Indiana send me a PM. I don't care about shooting birds but I like to get my dogs work.
I did one of those properties earlier this season and hunted next to one of them another time. Three guys and no dog is going to be really tough to see anything unless the property is just full. We worked a 60 ac piece for three hours and found 4 birds.
The spot we hunted next to one of those properties my dogs pointed at least a dozen birds.
First - welcome to the site! Many good points above. Although many might seem to be somewhat negative, I believe that it's really a matter of people trying to be helpful by pointing out the difficulties in what you propose to do. It's all great information from very experienced people. I hunt primarily alone (but with a dog), so when my dog was sitting out for a year due to injury, I had to hunt completely alone. I did not have a whole lot of success, but I did have lots of fun. You will have the added advantage of two more sets of boots to stomp around and intercept, agitate, flush birds, and also two more sets of eyes to see them fall, and find them. I apologise if the following lists repeats some of what was said above - but consider it another "vote" for that method/tip!
1. Go quietly and slowly, and stop often. Tell your party ahead of time that you will all stop together, and that you will all be very quiet when you stop (minimal chatter - do your talkin' while you're walkin'!). The key to this is that the bird heard you coming, and got a little freaked out, and now that you are silent he doesn't know where you are, and that freaks him out - time to fly! If you keep talking he'll still know where you are, and might be more likely to use that information to evade you. Personally, I walk 5 steps, then stop for a long 10-count. It takes forever to get anywhere, but it's effective. Be prepared for heart-stopping flushes - it was one of my favourite aspects of huntign without a dog was that you never knew when a flush would scare the bejeebers outta you!
2. Agree with your party that anyone who has a shot at the bird will take the shot, even if the other person is too. Pheasants are hard to kill, and I can't agree enough with the concerns above about lost cripples. Even WITH a good dog, they can be hard to find. Without one, your likelihood of finding a crippled bird is exceedingly low. Can't stress this one enough. So although it might be less satisfying if two guns shoot the same bird, and they might get a little banged up, it will be less upsetting that losing birds that you knock down, especially with your son along - I'm sure you want to set a good example about the importance of retrieving downed game.
3. On a related note - good advice above about taking the time to visually 'mark' the fall of the bird. There will be time for high-fives later, once you find it. Given that you are three - maybe one person stays where they were to direct the other two to where the bird fell. Then mark that spot and the three of you can search.
4. Strategically, blocking is a great idea, especially if you have some kind of linear habitat feature like a ditch or edge of some kind. If it's square, why not try a shooter on the corner and one pusher coming down each edge towards the corner, each swinging out into the cover.
5. Choke tubes. The year that I hunted wihtout a dog I put IM/Full tubes in my shotgun (compared to an IC and M when with the dog). My idea wiht that would be that it would increase my chances of either a clean miss or a thorough kill. A bit like my point above about tag-team shooting, it might bang up the birds a bit, but in my opinion "A banged-up bird in the vest is worth two suffering crippled that crawled into a hole"! I used #4.
Have fun, be careful and most importantly, make sure to come back here and post a few pics of the happy family excursion - with birds or without!
Cheers,
-Croc
1. Go quietly and slowly, and stop often. Tell your party ahead of time that you will all stop together, and that you will all be very quiet when you stop (minimal chatter - do your talkin' while you're walkin'!). The key to this is that the bird heard you coming, and got a little freaked out, and now that you are silent he doesn't know where you are, and that freaks him out - time to fly! If you keep talking he'll still know where you are, and might be more likely to use that information to evade you. Personally, I walk 5 steps, then stop for a long 10-count. It takes forever to get anywhere, but it's effective. Be prepared for heart-stopping flushes - it was one of my favourite aspects of huntign without a dog was that you never knew when a flush would scare the bejeebers outta you!
2. Agree with your party that anyone who has a shot at the bird will take the shot, even if the other person is too. Pheasants are hard to kill, and I can't agree enough with the concerns above about lost cripples. Even WITH a good dog, they can be hard to find. Without one, your likelihood of finding a crippled bird is exceedingly low. Can't stress this one enough. So although it might be less satisfying if two guns shoot the same bird, and they might get a little banged up, it will be less upsetting that losing birds that you knock down, especially with your son along - I'm sure you want to set a good example about the importance of retrieving downed game.
3. On a related note - good advice above about taking the time to visually 'mark' the fall of the bird. There will be time for high-fives later, once you find it. Given that you are three - maybe one person stays where they were to direct the other two to where the bird fell. Then mark that spot and the three of you can search.
4. Strategically, blocking is a great idea, especially if you have some kind of linear habitat feature like a ditch or edge of some kind. If it's square, why not try a shooter on the corner and one pusher coming down each edge towards the corner, each swinging out into the cover.
5. Choke tubes. The year that I hunted wihtout a dog I put IM/Full tubes in my shotgun (compared to an IC and M when with the dog). My idea wiht that would be that it would increase my chances of either a clean miss or a thorough kill. A bit like my point above about tag-team shooting, it might bang up the birds a bit, but in my opinion "A banged-up bird in the vest is worth two suffering crippled that crawled into a hole"! I used #4.
Have fun, be careful and most importantly, make sure to come back here and post a few pics of the happy family excursion - with birds or without!
Cheers,
-Croc
Yes, it's Indiana but a dog handler counts as a hunter. I even emailed them to make sure and asked for an exception because I figured someone might be interested in getting their dog out. Last year my son got drawn for the youth hunt and I let my friend go along that has a dog and I stayed home. This year I got drawn so I have to go. I think they were on one of the best properties last year in benton cty. They saw about 75 roosters and came home with 3 and should have had more if better shooting. We will be in white cty. If you want to come drop your dog off for us that is ok.
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
Yes, it's Indiana but a dog handler counts as a hunter. I even emailed them to make sure and asked for an exception because I figured someone might be interested in getting their dog out. Last year my son got drawn for the youth hunt and I let my friend go along that has a dog and I stayed home. This year I got drawn so I have to go. I think they were on one of the best properties last year in benton cty. They saw about 75 roosters and came home with 3 and should have had more if better shooting. We will be in white cty. If you want to come drop your dog off for us that is ok.
I would just drop them off but they'd just look at you funny and wouldn't hunt without me!
I have submitted my name for 23 straight years and never been drawn. My hunting partner has done the same and never been drawn. I figure you must be a politician to get picked.
I would just drop them off but they'd just look at you funny and wouldn't hunt without me!
I have submitted my name for 23 straight years and never been drawn. My hunting partner has done the same and never been drawn. I figure you must be a politician to get picked.
Not sure where you live but maybe they only pick close people. Live and Tippecanoe cty and work at Purdue.