Opening Day in Kansas

[vizslaman]

5 guys and 2 seasoned dogs hunted northwest(ish) Kansas hard on Saturday/Sunday. 4 roosters and a handful of quail. Mostly private and a couple of WIHAs. Spoke with a few other groups. Just as bad and usually much worse than our experience. It's truly abysmal out there - just as bad as they said it would be in the report. The drought has done quite a number. Of course, farming is the bigger impact. If anyone in the world cared about farm country or the wildlife out in it, the right phrase for me would be "ecological disaster." One can drive miles and miles and miles and not see ANY cover for ANY wildlife. Every field farmed into the roads, every corner farmed and stripped (hail mary to save the birds? condition the use of public water for pivots on planting 3 of 4 to permanent wildlife cover, but I digress), wheat cut at 4 inches, milo and corn pastured or baled. The very few remaining decent CRP blocks (and there is miles and miles to the next one) or unfarmed draws are in WIHA, which means the few places for the animals to live and survive becomes unlivable and further pushes them into other cover, of which there is none. Mortality will be high because there is nowhere else for the birds to go. At this point, I am a little worried the quail on WIHA will be hunted out by bored pheasant hunters. A covey can only sustain so much pressure. Put simply, the birds (and all wildlife) are in real trouble in Kansas, in my humble opinion. Yet, we saw a lot of people hunting. I feel equally privileged and burdened by being alive and witnessing the near decimation of quail in eastern Kansas, and now the near eradication of pheasants in western Kansas. It's pretty depressing. My advice: Go somewhere else.

How about a bit of good news? The few acres that have cover look as good as I can recall: thick and tall and good and ready for a running pheasant or to protect all wildlife from a tough winter. Some of it is really difficult to hunt. Also, I had a couple conversations at the bar with some farmers and they are clearly growing puzzled as to why the birds are disappearing. Asking the question is a great first step.

Good luck out there!

 

[BlueSky Rooster]

I just got back from 3 days in the NW/NC region. Day 1 was tough. We had 4 guys hunting with three experienced bird dogs and we shot 1 rooster and a handful of quail. We did see a fair amount of pheasants but they had their game on. They were very wild, spooky and were in a track meet. In fairness to us, I had my 8 year old son with me as well as my 4 year old son. Needless to say when the game sped up, we weren't able to pick up the pace. We had a ton of fun and my sons got to see some birds and spend quality time outdoors. I enjoyed every minute of the day with them. Overall we saw approximately 50 to 60 pheasants on opening day. One in the bag.

Day 2 was a different animal. My wife took my sons home and we got started at sun up and walked until dark. 4 guys, 3 dogs and nine roosters. Plus 3 misses. Should of ended the day on 12 but cleaned nine. Had a lot of fun and good dog work.

Today was also a pretty good day. Same guys and 5 roosters. Everyone was home by 6. Missed 3 today thAt should have been in the bag. Overall today we saw about 25 pheasants. We did see a ton of quail over the trip. I'd say we saw at least one covey in every field we walked. We hunted mostly private ground. My brother in law is the tech guy. He said we went 28k steps on Saturday and about the same on Sunday. Don't know how far that is but we walked a long way for those birds. Worth every step.

Good luck to everyone out there the rest of the season.

 

[nwkansnative]

5 guys and 2 seasoned dogs hunted northwest(ish) Kansas hard on Saturday/Sunday. 4 roosters and a handful of quail. Mostly private and a couple of WIHAs. Spoke with a few other groups. Just as bad and usually much worse than our experience. It's truly abysmal out there - just as bad as they said it would be in the report. The drought has done quite a number. Of course, farming is the bigger impact. If anyone in the world cared about farm country or the wildlife out in it, the right phrase for me would be "ecological disaster." One can drive miles and miles and miles and not see ANY cover for ANY wildlife. Every field farmed into the roads, every corner farmed and stripped (hail mary to save the birds? condition the use of public water for pivots on planting 3 of 4 to permanent wildlife cover, but I digress), wheat cut at 4 inches, milo and corn pastured or baled. The very few remaining decent CRP blocks (and there is miles and miles to the next one) or unfarmed draws are in WIHA, which means the few places for the animals to live and survive becomes unlivable and further pushes them into other cover, of which there is none. Mortality will be high because there is nowhere else for the birds to go. At this point, I am a little worried the quail on WIHA will be hunted out by bored pheasant hunters. A covey can only sustain so much pressure. Put simply, the birds (and all wildlife) are in real trouble in Kansas, in my humble opinion. Yet, we saw a lot of people hunting. I feel equally privileged and burdened by being alive and witnessing the near decimation of quail in eastern Kansas, and now the near eradication of pheasants in western Kansas. It's pretty depressing. My advice: Go somewhere else.

How about a bit of good news? The few acres that have cover look as good as I can recall: thick and tall and good and ready for a running pheasant or to protect all wildlife from a tough winter. Some of it is really difficult to hunt. Also, I had a couple conversations at the bar with some farmers and they are clearly growing puzzled as to why the birds are disappearing. Asking the question is a great first step.

Good luck out there!

My one disagreement is the number of hunters. Way down from even 5 years ago where I hunt. We went to a restaurant in a prime pheasant hunting town at Noon on Saturday and we were the only orange hats in the place. Two tables of bow hunters. Opening day used to be an EVENT. Now, it’s barely noticed.

 

[carptom1]

I just got back from 3 days in the NW/NC region. Day 1 was tough. We had 4 guys hunting with three experienced bird dogs and we shot 1 rooster and a handful of quail. We did see a fair amount of pheasants but they had their game on. They were very wild, spooky and were in a track meet. In fairness to us, I had my 8 year old son with me as well as my 4 year old son. Needless to say when the game sped up, we weren't able to pick up the pace. We had a ton of fun and my sons got to see some birds and spend quality time outdoors. I enjoyed every minute of the day with them. Overall we saw approximately 50 to 60 pheasants on opening day. One in the bag.

Day 2 was a different animal. My wife took my sons home and we got started at sun up and walked until dark. 4 guys, 3 dogs and nine roosters. Plus 3 misses. Should of ended the day on 12 but cleaned nine. Had a lot of fun and good dog work.

Today was also a pretty good day. Same guys and 5 roosters. Everyone was home by 6. Missed 3 today thAt should have been in the bag. Overall today we saw about 25 pheasants. We did see a ton of quail over the trip. I'd say we saw at least one covey in every field we walked. We hunted mostly private ground. My brother in law is the tech guy. He said we went 28k steps on Saturday and about the same on Sunday. Don't know how far that is but we walked a long way for those birds. Worth every step.

Good luck to everyone out there the rest of the season.

That’s 13 plus miles…. I got a Charlie horse just thinking about it

 

[akp]

Read these last few posts. Then read them again. Kansas better get serious about its upland habitat. Or it is over. This pic is Kansas WIHA in 2004. Day 2. Just four guys and one decent dog. So far from what it was it’s laughable. From an economical standpoint, what is more important? Deer or pheasant?

 

[matto]

From an economical standpoint, what is more important? Deer or pheasant?

I've written about this many times. The answer very much depends on who is providing the answer. I see it this way:
Landowners: deer
KDWP: deer
taxidermists: deer
gear makers: deer
And it's not even close for these stakeholders.
Hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc.: pheasants
And it's a lot closer for this group.

 

[akp]

Yea, when I say economical these last few you list are what come to my mind. Businesses in a community. And you are right. It isn't even close.

 

[KBaird]

From some old numbers I think it’s fair to say there were more nonresident bird hunters in the early 80’s than there are total upland hunters statewide today. Nonresident upland folks today probably total right around what nonresident deer hunters do. If you include nonresident landowners and lifetime license holders my guess is there are more folks coming to hunt deer than birds currently. Unfortunately with the current state of affairs regarding habitat, access and game populations it’s probably not realistic for upland hunters to compete with deer money anytime soon. From the department’s perspective it takes 5 pheasant hunters to equal one deer hunter. I doubt the hotels/restaurants/gas stations are really out all that much either as deer hunters stay longer than bird hunters. There’s certainly more room for improvement with regard to upland effort as the deer program seems to be about maxed out. But it’s going to take a concerted effort from counties and landowners that actually care about their local economies.

 

[KBaird]

I don’t watch much of their stuff but Meateater just sent Ryan Callahan to Aberdeen for an episode on this very topic. Pretty interesting to see what they do up there. Plenty of communities in Kansas could replicate that to some extent if they took the initiative. But it probably has to start there and not likely to come from state or federal programs only.

 

[RutCrazed]

From some old numbers I think it’s fair to say there were more nonresident bird hunters in the early 80’s than there are total upland hunters statewide today. Nonresident upland folks today probably total right around what nonresident deer hunters do. If you include nonresident landowners and lifetime license holders my guess is there are more folks coming to hunt deer than birds currently. Unfortunately with the current state of affairs regarding habitat, access and game populations it’s probably not realistic for upland hunters to compete with deer money anytime soon. From the department’s perspective it takes 5 pheasant hunters to equal one deer hunter. I doubt the hotels/restaurants/gas stations are really out all that much either as deer hunters stay longer than bird hunters. There’s certainly more room for improvement with regard to upland effort as the deer program seems to be about maxed out. But it’s going to take a concerted effort from counties and landowners that actually care about their local economies.

22,000 NR deer hunters each chipping in ~$500 in permits definitely points the needle in their direction when it comes to KDWP interest!

 

[vizslaman]

With due respect to Kansas communities and farmers/ranchers, all of us have been pleading with them for years to recognize the damage they are doing to their land, their economies, and the future of their communities. It doesn't work in Kansas. I don't know why. But one could read "What's the Matter with Kansas" and draw some favorable analogies. Admittedly, that book is a liberal rag and might raise some hairs. But...

Honestly, it's not just the pheasants and quail. Sure, that's what we know and love and focus on, but all the animals out there are disappearing. When you're out there, look for other wildlife - meadowlarks and rabbits and starlings and anything wild. They just barely exist, except the coyotes and deer (and both thrive everywhere). If there is a 3% chance of making a nickel vs. focusing on the thriving nature of the land, the vast majority of Kansas farmers will always choose the nickel. Always. It's not that way in other states right now - look at the post from the guy who went to Iowa.

Bottom line, working "with" the Kansas farmer/rancher is unlikely to bear fruit. We can buy land or we can get the gummit involved. The first is tough to make pencil, and the latter almost always gets corrupted. One only need to look at the failed policy of CRP to see how that works out. Heck, for all the CRP payments the Feds made, the Feds could have just bought the land and permanently fixed some of the issues. Instead, "we" tried to work with the farmer and rancher. Now, CRP is dying and the farmers get to treat it like a savings account for dry years.

 

[s.davis]

I take a little heart in Iowa's recent turn around. They were at a lower nadir for pheasants than Kansas is now only a few short years ago, and that was from a much higher peak than even the best years in Kansas. So, positive change can happen. It bothers some people's sensibilities to hear it, but without government intervention (which is the whole reason huntable game species exist at all in this country), the trajectory of hunting in Kansas is not going to change. The "farmers" of the lower Midwest and Great Plains share a lot more in common with resource extraction industries like mining than with actual farmers. The entire place is basically an enormous factory for cow food and the people who build, own and operate factories don't often care much about the architecture or landscaping of the plant...

 

[KBaird]

I take a little heart in Iowa's recent turn around. They were at a lower nadir for pheasants than Kansas is now only a few short years ago, and that was from a much higher peak than even the best years in Kansas. So, positive change can happen. It bothers some people's sensibilities to hear it, but without government intervention (which is the whole reason huntable game species exist at all in this country), the trajectory of hunting in Kansas is not going to change. The "farmers" of the lower Midwest and Great Plains share a lot more in common with resource extraction industries like mining than with actual farmers. The entire place is basically an enormous factory for cow food and the people who build, own and operate factories don't often care much about the architecture or landscaping of the plant...

Well said. And I come from a farm family that’s probably as guilty as any sadly. What sometimes isn’t mentioned in this discussion is that landowners and farmers are increasingly two separate groups. Sure, most farmers still own some land. But Iowa is 55-58% off farm ownership depending where you look. And about 20% don’t even reside in Iowa. Kansas lags a little I believe, but it’s somewhere around 45% out of county ownership. Farmers aren’t going to take the initiative to do habitat work on leased land and non local landowners, many of whom don’t even have a farm background anymore, may not even be aware and/or concerned. Somehow those folks need to be reached with programs that outcompete cash rents for acres that maybe shouldn’t be in production anyway (playas, waterways, fence lines, hedgerow buffers, etc). Easier said than done.

 

[Haretrigger]

I take a little heart in Iowa's recent turn around. They were at a lower nadir for pheasants than Kansas is now only a few short years ago, and that was from a much higher peak than even the best years in Kansas. So, positive change can happen. It bothers some people's sensibilities to hear it, but without government intervention (which is the whole reason huntable game species exist at all in this country), the trajectory of hunting in Kansas is not going to change. The "farmers" of the lower Midwest and Great Plains share a lot more in common with resource extraction industries like mining than with actual farmers. The entire place is basically an enormous factory for cow food and the people who build, own and operate factories don't often care much about the architecture or landscaping of the plant...

Not unique to kansas or the midwest.....idaho and washington used to have 500,000 wild birds killed(each). Now....maybe a tenth that.
Mile after mile after mile of industrialized farmland as you aptly described. Throw in a gazillion gallons of herbicides and pesticides and it doesn't make for a pretty picture..
Doesn't look good for the near future.......eventually(past my life), it will change, as it just isn't sustainable.

 

[MAB7799]

Pulled up to my best honey hole Sunday which was a full section of draws, corn and CRP. All the CRP had been hayed. Talked to the farmer to ask what his plans were and he said the CRP expired and the price the govt is paying was a joke so he put it back into production. Normally this property would hold 12-15 coveys of quail due to the extensive CRP bordering crops and I could easily limit by noon. I found 1 covey of 10 birds after walking 8.5 miles. Most depressing opener of my life.
Went to another private spot and found one covey of 10 birds and another covey of 12. Super small given what they normally would be.

 

[KsHusker]

Pulled up to my best honey hole Sunday which was a full section of draws, corn and CRP. All the CRP had been hayed. Talked to the farmer to ask what his plans were and he said the CRP expired and the price the govt is paying was a joke so he put it back into production. Normally this property would hold 12-15 coveys of quail due to the extensive CRP bordering crops and I could easily limit by noon. I found 1 covey of 10 birds after walking 8.5 miles. Most depressing opener of my life.
Went to another private spot and found one covey of 10 birds and another covey of 12. Super small given what they normally would be.

Do you think he'd be willing to leave it in CRP if he was paid by someone or a group of hunters leasing it? (I'd be interested depending on location)

Anyways I went to ND with my brother end of Oct -- mother nature didnt treat us well but we had fun -- we ran into one farmer and spoke with him...he leased his property out (older gentleman and lived on the land forever) -- Ironically he said CRP and cash renting for farming didnt pay as well as hunting did (leaving habitat and putting in food plots) -- he saw the value in it.

We hunted a piece of public near him -- Our encounter was positive but I think since we parked a ways from the public he thought we were going to trespass on him...ha - we told him we saw plenty of pheasants in the public - just wanted to park a ways away and be quiet -- doing that resulted in us getting 3 roosters and then our conversation after.

 

[KsHusker]

Read these last few posts. Then read them again. Kansas better get serious about its upland habitat. Or it is over. This pic is Kansas WIHA in 2004. Day 2. Just four guys and one decent dog. So far from what it was it’s laughable. From an economical standpoint, what is more important? Deer or pheasant?

The ignoramus and small minded view which is that of the ones in control is deer

Upland birds have a far greater economic impact if you look globally at the economic impact and # of people that can partake in such a resource if it's healthy -- Ask South Dakota -- and simply look at supply/demand -- very few places even have a supply anymore of upland birds-- far far greater tourist attraction to have great upland #'s than stupid deer. You can shoot those anywhere.

I have an affinity for deer - but wouldnt bother me if they all died of CWD -- (White tails that is) -- A lot of guys are so damn greedy, arrogant, competitive and simply aholes when it comes to chasing after a decent buck. It's made me not like deer hunting that much at all. Someday I'll find my love for it again - but it's not important to me at the moment like it used to be. Deer hunting in my eyes has ruined my 1st passion and that is upland bird hunting. I guess I should mention that big ag and farming practices and non existent land management are really the culprit that has destroyed upland hunting. There's too many things there us "normal's" can't control unless you have George Soros or Koch money to throw at the topic and beat back the corporate interests at play. Pheasant's forever possibly could - but they are just a shill or token piece to give people false pretenses things could change.

 

[MAB7799]

Do you think he'd be willing to leave it in CRP if he was paid by someone or a group of hunters leasing it? (I'd be interested depending on location)

Anyways I went to ND with my brother end of Oct -- mother nature didnt treat us well but we had fun -- we ran into one farmer and spoke with him...he leased his property out (older gentleman and lived on the land forever) -- Ironically he said CRP and cash renting for farming didnt pay as well as hunting did (leaving habitat and putting in food plots) -- he saw the value in it.

We hunted a piece of public near him -- Our encounter was positive but I think since we parked a ways from the public he thought we were going to trespass on him...ha - we told him we saw plenty of pheasants in the public - just wanted to park a ways away and be quiet -- doing that resulted in us getting 3 roosters and then our conversation after.

No. It was leased by Mid America. I told em to not renew the lease because the property is worthless now. Apparently they have in their contract that if habitat is destroyed or reduced, so is the lease payment if not cancelled all together.

 

[KsHusker]

No. It was leased by Mid America. I told em to not renew the lease because the property is worthless now. Apparently they have in their contract that if habitat is destroyed or reduced, so is the lease payment if not cancelled all together.

That's too bad -- it will only get worse as the 70/80 yr olds age out and the millennials take over or dont want to work and sell it to some Bill Gates type.

 

[KBaird]

The ignoramus and small minded view which is that of the ones in control is deer

Upland birds have a far greater economic impact if you look globally at the economic impact and # of people that can partake in such a resource if it's healthy -- Ask South Dakota -- and simply look at supply/demand -- very few places even have a supply anymore of upland birds-- far far greater tourist attraction to have great upland #'s than stupid deer. You can shoot those anywhere.

I have an affinity for deer - but wouldnt bother me if they all died of CWD -- (White tails that is) -- A lot of guys are so damn greedy, arrogant, competitive and simply aholes when it comes to chasing after a decent buck. It's made me not like deer hunting that much at all. Someday I'll find my love for it again - but it's not important to me at the moment like it used to be. Deer hunting in my eyes has ruined my 1st passion and that is upland bird hunting. I guess I should mention that big ag and farming practices and non existent land management are really the culprit that has destroyed upland hunting. There's too many things there us "normal's" can't control unless you have George Soros or Koch money to throw at the topic and beat back the corporate interests at play. Pheasant's forever possibly could - but they are just a shill or token piece to give people false pretenses things could change.

I consider myself a big bowhunter and really wouldn’t mind seeing the whitetail population fizzle out at this point either if it meant upland birds would flourish. But I don’t feel like it’s an either/or necessarily. I’m interested in why you think there’s so much more money in upland visitors as opposed to deer hunters? South Dakota had around 75,000 non residents last year. That’s probably pretty close to the all time high for Kansas in the early 80’s. So it’s fair to assume that’s probably the ceiling these days if things magically did turn around. At those numbers we’re still only talking half the dollars in upland based license sales to the department that non resident deer hunting brings in. And I’m afraid there’s probably a misconception that upland guys automatically spend more money while they’re in state than deer hunters solely because they’re usually in larger groups I guess. It’s basically a 1:1 ratio of both hunter groups right now no matter how many orange vests you see together stomping out WIHAs. In my experience upland guys don’t stay as long as deer hunters, they’re more likely to carpool and share rooms, they certainly don’t pay as much for leased ground, there’s no bait/gear money being spent (as much as I hate to add that), and they don’t process their game at local lockers, etc. Even if non resident bird hunters got to that 2.5:1 ratio over deer guys I still don’t see the money coming even close to what the deer circus has become. Trust me, I’m with you in hoping that things swing back towards the birds, but I’m not that optimistic the money is there to drive it like you say.