A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Shocking coming from you. Kidding. Why would I care with whom you stand, with whom you lay, or what you think of my lucid, well-thought-out diatribe? The fact is that shot put nobody in danger. Believe it if you want.
Onx for SD
- Thread starter Bird Buster
- Start date
I don't intend to be a role model.
Please leave the video up on YouTube. I'm going to use it, and your response here, for my next Hunter's Safety class. It really is a extraordinary piece of specious justification. In 30+ years of teaching this stuff I've learned that when you challenge an older hunter on their gun safety, they get confrontational immediately instead of just saying mea culpa and moving on.
As a quick reminder:
T = Treat every firearm as if it is loaded.
A = Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
B = Be certain of your target and what's beyond it.
K = Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
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GetTothePoint
Well-known member
Goosemaster
Well-known member
You were only 70 yards from a highway? Jesus!What??? What freeway? Jeeez, I'm sorry. I really care what you think & wish I could take that shot back. I just adore internet safety & ethics police.
Now, I know I'd never convince you that was a safe shot. I don't care. But if for no other reason than to get it off my chest, I'll try to show how somebody who's spent as much time as I have patterning, chronographing, & analyzing shotgun loads & studying shotgun ballistics might defend that shot. It might come off a bit haphazard, but I don't have time to, or interest in, giving screen shots as evidence, or really spit shining the whole thing. So I'll just list some things.
1. According to Google, I was 40 yds from the corner post, which is 30 yds from the road, when I took that shot. So 70 yds from the road. Based on the angle I shot, the muzzle of my gun was 130 yds from the road, in the direction it was pointed, when I fired. 130 yds.
2. I shoot #4 bismuth at 1,350 fps. It's pretty clear the rooster barely gained any altitude & that I fired essentially level to the ground. According to KPY Shotshell Ballistics, and the fact that my muzzle is 62" off the ground, the pellets would've never made it to the road, even if it was at the same elevation as my feet. My pellets would've hit the ground in about 110 yds. At 130 yds (the distance to the road), they'd have dropped 118" (nearly 10') if it had been possible.
3. Not only wouldn't my pellets have made it to the road, but the road is a good 10'-15' ABOVE my feet, or 15'-20' above my pellets, had the ground disappeared & they been allowed to travel 130 yds.
4. Had my pellets been able to fly 130 yards, they'd have only been travelling about 250 fps (probably considerably less, since I was shooting directly into the wind), which isn't even close to enough to pierce skin (which takes 350-375 fps), & probably not even fast enough to chip paint.
5. It's clear that the entire time that rooster was in the air, including its fall to the ground, there wasn't a single car in my GoPro view, which is pretty wide. It took the next car 2.1 seconds (averaging about 10 very similar takes) to travel into the path of my gun at the point the trigger was pulled. Travelling 80 mph (the speed limit in SD), that means it was 82 yds from the path of my pellets, which again, would've never made it to the road in the first place. I'm speculating that most people would take a shot when the nearest unintended target was 82 yds from the path of their shot & 15'-20' above it.
6. There was nothing at all "lucky" (as you say) about the instant I pulled my trigger, the direction my gun was pointed, or the fact that when I fired, there wasn't a car within 80 yds of the path of my shot, which I knew wouldn't make the interstate anyway. It was 100% intentional. If there'd been a car in danger of being shot, I wouldn't have fired & would've instead pointed my muzzle in a safe direction.
Thanks for playing. Come again soon.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
I don't apologize for that shot. It was safe. I'll never convince you of it, & you'll never convince me it wasn't. But I was there. I know the true conditions & the applicable facts. You weren't & don't, instead drawing conclusions only from a few seconds of footage taken by a tiny, sometimes misleading camera strapped to my head. Yet although we all have eyes & can see what was going on there, you were the one armchair quarterback who couldn't just "move on". You were the first to be "confrontational". Certainly you see that. But whatever. Just for you, since you asked so nicely & have educational intentions for my video, I'll leave it up on YouTube. If not for you & your keen interest, I'd have deleted the whole thing. Thanks so much!
Golden Hour
Well-known member
It is easy to formulate an opinion of someone based on a few seconds of media. I used to be as guilty as the rest. But when you put yourself out there with videos, I came to realize that an opinion formed based on a microcosm of something much, much larger is often misguided, if not false. What the video doesn't show is Brent's constant awareness of the interstate (we don't have "freeways" in SD), knowing where he is relative to the top of the roadbed, his knowledge of ballistics (if anyone thinks his post was a diatribe, I should pull out some private messages where he talks about the physics of shotgun blasts and show you what one really looks like!! lol) and his experience pheasant hunting. No one was in danger.
To me, the more important issue is that a supposed wild pheasant flushed and then landed 30 yards away, then allowing Ace to catch up to him. Very, very sus. Let's talk about that.
To me, the more important issue is that a supposed wild pheasant flushed and then landed 30 yards away, then allowing Ace to catch up to him. Very, very sus. Let's talk about that.
Nonsense. Shooting towards the roadway, 70 yards away according to A5 Sweet 16's assertion, is a hazard. Period.
If you don't agree, park your vehicle 70 yards away, sit in it and have someone shoot at it. Now imagine you are traveling 65MPH, focusing on the road. Even the visual of someone swinging a shotgun towards traffic from 70 yards is enough to cause an accident.
I'm not surprised at all by A5 Sweet 16's response. It was fairly predictable. But the fact that some here want to defend this as safe gun handling, and think it's fine to show to the world on YouTube, is amazing to me.
A5 says he's "no role model" and that "I don't apologize for that shot." That's the problem in a nutshell.
And the "Thanks for playing. Come again" he added is meant to be condescending and pithy, but it strikes me as defensive and juvenile, especially after such a bloated and self-congratulatory response.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
"Supposed wild"?? Give me a break.
That dead rooster underwent a series of scientific tests to determine its legitimacy. Nose. Toes. Everything physical indicated a truly wild pheasant. But I couldn't believe it either, when he didn't cross the road like the others. But let's face it, to get within shotgun range of ANY wild rooster typically requires a mistake on his part. That was his, & he paid for it. He could've been way more safety conscious than his friends & thought crossing the interstate was too dangerous. Or perhaps his mother had drilled it into him to stay on the north side. We'll never know. But yes, thanks for your attempt to change the subject. Me possibly shooting a disgusting flare nare pseudo rooster is JUST what needs to be discussed. 
Bob Peters
Well-known member
Yeah, and then Ace caught a bird on the walk later that hadn't even been shot! Did A5 ride a school bus to that field? Or did he know that the stocking truck had just stopped off the edge of the highway there and emptied all it's pens on the roadside?! The plot thickens!
Please….just lick your wounds and move on….you created this mess by being confrontational and assuming you know everything….I have hunted over 60 years…..it was a safe shot!!!!!
Bob Peters
Well-known member
Hmmmm, I wonder how many birds are shot every year pheasant hunting shooting towards a roadway? Roosters do love ditches you know, and many of them are right off the shoulder of the road. Most hunting spots have roads along the edges. Last year the dog flushed one right on the edge of public land and I shot over a gravel road and he bounced off the far shoulder and into the opposite ditch where he was retrieved by the dog. I get that a backcountry gravel road is a lot different than the interstate, but to put out a blanket statement that shooting towards a roadway is a hazard isn't truthful. This road was not busy at all(never saw a car pass the whole time I was there) and I'm always cognizant of my surroundings. Oh and most importantly, I called the game warden before my trip, and she told me it is perfectly legal to shoot birdshot over a roadway in that state. This is a good teaching moment for you Allin:
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Excellent point! Upon further investigation, that bird had zero evidence of injury. But when I cleaned the meat up, I discovered 3 #6 steel pellets in the breast meat, a little infected, but easy to cut away & save most of the meat. Seemingly minor, but I think more than enough to make him alter his normal behavior.
gimruis
Well-known member
Until now I've decided to stay out of this argument.
I personally would not shoot towards "busy" road at that distance. I would define that as one that has an asphalt surface with regular traffic. Not a gravel one out in the sticks. A5 responded with some pretty good evidence on ballistics and distance, etc, so I trust that his math is correct on that one. But for me personally, I still wouldn't do it. I am in the crowd of never shooting towards game or birds with obstacles behind my target. That mostly comes from rifle hunting, which has significant distance compared to BBs. But its a habit, so that's how I roll.
Second, I will not hunt that close to a busy road. Roads scare me mostly because of my dog. A cripple could easily run or fly across it and the dog is not going to stop on the shoulder and look both ways. No bird is worth risking my dog's life and for that reason, I avoid hunting even remotely close to a busy road.
Carry on
I personally would not shoot towards "busy" road at that distance. I would define that as one that has an asphalt surface with regular traffic. Not a gravel one out in the sticks. A5 responded with some pretty good evidence on ballistics and distance, etc, so I trust that his math is correct on that one. But for me personally, I still wouldn't do it. I am in the crowd of never shooting towards game or birds with obstacles behind my target. That mostly comes from rifle hunting, which has significant distance compared to BBs. But its a habit, so that's how I roll.
Second, I will not hunt that close to a busy road. Roads scare me mostly because of my dog. A cripple could easily run or fly across it and the dog is not going to stop on the shoulder and look both ways. No bird is worth risking my dog's life and for that reason, I avoid hunting even remotely close to a busy road.
Carry on
I don't say a lot on hear but this is stupid. I hate when people start safety stuff when they weren't even there. Maybe you never read his explanation very close, because of the angel of the shot it was about double the 70 yd. Pellets never reached the road for multiple reasons, no cars in the path or even very close to it. Safe shot dude. You weren't freaking there There's big different from what you teach a 12 year old & the abilities of a man shooting a phez whose been shooting, hunting, and pretty much studying shotguns for decades.
I would. Paved road or not. I got eyes. If there's no cars in the way of my shot there's nothing wrong with it. You do you though bro.
gimruis
Well-known member
I understand. You won't even catch me there hunting that close to a busy road to begin with, so its a moot point anyways.
A5 is a knowledgeable hunter and respected poster on here but he also needs to understand that posting videos can result in good comments and bad ones. Don't take it personally.
gimruis
Well-known member
Just to clarify, I'm not opposed to walking a ditch on a gravel road. I don't specifically set out to do it, but during the course of my hunt I sometimes have to walk on a country road, so I am technically hunting a ditch.
As it pertains to this thread, I would never walk a ditch along side a highway. Just too unsafe and risky for this guy.