One item for the birds

[Winchester30]

Whether it’s PF, Pro Pheasant, or whoever,
$35 or $50 is a relatively small amount to contribute to your favorite conservation organization or project annually.
Especially when you figure out what it compares to the money we spend to hunt on gas, ammo, food, etc.

 

[benelli-banger]

84.6 for projects? qualify that, where, when, what? no signs, no ,banners, no money. Vincent milking the cow.
if his heart was really in it, he would do the job for a helluva lot less!

I just went to their website, clicked on the “about pheasants forever” link, then clicked on the “non-profit status” link, and they make their financials, etc, available, and those %’s jive with what they report. About $80,000,000 in revenue, admin is about 3%, about $2.5mm…fairly large organization. You get what you pay for…look at the list of MN non-profits that shows up in the StarTribune each year…a coworker of mine of 20 years has been the CEO of MN Masonic Charities, a charity based in the Twin cities…he makes WELL over 400k, per the list that comes out each year…his organization has 32 million less revenue than PF. Anyway, the ..#’s referenced earlier seem accurate based on the data provided on their website.

 

[GetTothePoint]

I just went to their website, clicked on the “about pheasants forever” link, then clicked on the “non-profit status” link, and they make their financials, etc, available, and those %’s jive with what they report. About $80,000,000 in revenue, admin is about 3%, about $2.5mm…fairly large organization. You get what you pay for…look at the list of MN non-profits that shows up in the StarTribune each year…a coworker of mine of 20 years has been the CEO of MN Masonic Charities, a charity based in the Twin cities…he makes WELL over 400k, per the list that comes out each year…his organization has 32 million less revenue than PF. Anyway, the ..#’s referenced earlier seem accurate based on the data provided on their website.

I'm not against a guy making money, but something sure just doesn't sit right with me when leaders of a charity or non-profit are pocketing that much money. Hope he's comfy in his Mercedes while he's out looking at those plowed fields and hedge rows piled into burn piles.

 

[benelli-banger]

I'm not against a guy making money, but something sure just doesn't sit right with me when leaders of a charity or non-profit are pocketing that much money. Hope he's comfy in his Mercedes while he's out looking at those plowed fields and hedge rows piled into burn

I'm not against a guy making money, but something sure just doesn't sit right with me when leaders of a charity or non-profit are pocketing that much money. Hope he's comfy in his Mercedes while he's out looking at those plowed fields and hedge rows piled into burn piles.

What would you think is fair compensation?

 

[GetTothePoint]

What would you think is fair compensation?

I'll start tomorrow for 100k and look at the line behind me. I'm sure there's a lot more to that job than most think but in a non profit situation it's just a black eye in my opinion. Does he need 300k to live? No. In this situation I think you take a living wage and every extra red cent you can save/raise should be going to the cause.

Anyone on PF board just let me know. Will travel!

 

[benelli-banger]

I'll start tomorrow for 100k and look at the line behind me. I'm sure there's a lot more to that job than most think but in a non profit situation it's just a black eye in my opinion. Does he need 300k to live? No. In this situation I think you take a living wage and every extra red cent you can save/raise should be going to the cause.

Anyone on PF board just let me know. Will travel!

Hope you get hired! Look at the Startribune 100…lists the 100 largest nonprofits in MN…including CEO comp. Think the leader of the YMCA made 650k. I think they’re competing for talent, period. Talent that can work in the private sector as well. I understand your sentiments, for sure. Personally, an organization that size, and being a non-profit that doesn’t have the ability to offer stock options, etc, 350k or whatever he’s paid isn’t a lot in that world. You’ll see that if you check out that list. I suspect the board does it’s best to hire the best people consistent with comparable pay ranges in similar sized organizations, which is its job. Hopefully there are quantifiable metrics for evaluating performance, including acres of habitat. good luck with the job hunt!!

 

[GetTothePoint]

Hope you get hired! Look at the Startribune 100…lists the 100 largest nonprofits in MN…including CEO comp. Think the leader of the YMCA made 650k. I think they’re competing for talent, period. Talent that can work in the private sector as well. I understand your sentiments, for sure. Personally, an organization that size, and being a non-profit that doesn’t have the ability to offer stock options, etc, 350k or whatever he’s paid isn’t a lot in that world. You’ll see that if you check out that list. But good luck with the job hunt!!

No I understand, just a conflict of priorities in my opinion. My grandma always said "charity starts at home." Now I always thought that was a selfish outlook when I was younger but when you see that list and see all this corruption in "charity" ole granny may have had something

 

[benelli-banger]

No I understand just a conflict of priorities in my opinion. My grandma always said "charity starts at home." Now I always thought that was a selfish outlook when I was younger but when you see that list and see all this corruption in "charity" ole granny may have had something

If they could hire an equally talented person for 1/3 of what they pay Howard Vincent, maybe they should. The problem is everyone below gets paid based on what the top person makes. Maybe you can staff an organization with altruistic people who will work for 1/3 of what they could elsewhere…dunno. I’d hire the best people possible, and would pay them competitively. But I bet PF members can float these concerns to the board if they feel strongly enough. Personally, I’d never take that job for that pay…all the travel, especially to DC? Wonder how much time is spent lobbying Congress and other politicians? And having to live in the cities? And be under a microscope all the time? Thank god somebody would take the job at all. Imagine the mail that guy gets. Just my 350,000,000,000 cents!

 

[dakotasj]

If they could hire an equally talented person for 1/3 of what they pay Howard Vincent, maybe they should. The problem is everyone below gets paid based on what the top person makes. Maybe you can staff an organization with altruistic people who will work for 1/3 of what they could elsewhere…dunno. I’d hire the best people possible, and would pay them competitively. But I bet PF members can float these concerns to the board if they feel strongly enough. Personally, I’d never take that job for that pay…all the travel, especially to DC? And having to live in the cities? And be under a microscope all the time? Thank god somebody would take the job at all. Imagine the mail that guy gets. Just my 350,000,000,000 cents!

Not to mention dealing with politicians at the local, state and federal level (that's got to be fun), major corporation CEOs, big ag, etc. In addition to PF he also has a commitment to his family to provide for them and that should be job No. 1.

 

[Weimdogman]

Many would be staggered by what "fund raising" entails the national/global level. There are a lot of people who believe they are entitled to some costly things.
I know about a American Heart Association 20 person fund raising gala at a 4 star restaraunt about 20 years ago. They started with open bar then shrimp cocktails. Those cocktails were 50.00 each!
Spend 10 to 15 grand looking to score 100g and hopefully millions. I wish a guy could set down with those executives and have a Brownbag lunch. Emphasis the thriftiness of one's organization , but it doesn't work that way.

 

[GetTothePoint]

Many would be staggered by what "fund raising" entails the national/global level. There are a lot of people who believe they are entitled to some costly things.
I know about a American Heart Association 20 person fund raising gala at a 4 star restaraunt about 20 years ago. They started with open bar then shrimp cocktails. Those cocktails were 50.00 each!
Spend 10 to 15 grand looking to score 100g and hopefully millions. I wish a guy could set down with those executives and have a Brownbag lunch. Emphasis the thriftiness of one's organization , but it doesn't work that way.

Yeah I think the disconnect between galas/game ranch hunting and eating a turkey sandwich on the tailgate after a rough morning hunting public land gets pretty wide sometimes. I'd pay their way to spend a weekend in Kansas with me these days.

 

[benelli-banger]

Big organization, lots of challenges…results are necessary…

 

[Miforester]

From what I've seen on some of there job postings it seems that the compensation for field staff is pretty low in my opinion and those are the people that need a competitive wage. It would be interesting to see how biologist from the respective organizations compare in wages.

 

[Weimdogman]

Those biologist aren't paid much as it is a entry level position with many happy to have a chance to get their foot in the door. Wildlife and fisheries majors are the animal/plant equivalent of social workers.

 

[Bob Peters]

To put a bow on this thing, I really love the effort put in by a small group of people, starting with an idea by an individual, that is going to help pheasants and wildlife in general. I wish I read more stories like this. It's got the wheels spinning in my head, not sure they'll get anywhere though.

On pheasants forever, there's varied opinions, based on everyone's individual experiences. Rem-dog, I'm really glad that your local chapter has been so helpful on converting some of your family land from production to habitat, a win-win for everyone. There's obviously a lot of great people in the organization.

Now even if A5 served himself up a softball because he knew the backstory and group involved, that doesn't change the fact of what happened. Didn't you want to know the organization involved that shot down GH's idea of collaboration in effort to improve/grow pheasant habitat(rhetorical question)? As I already stated, a chapter president related a story to me that what he heard from corporate in a face to face meeting was that any project under $50,000 was small potatoes and PF wouldn't support the chapter because they need to cover "overhead costs." I get that there's bigger fish to fry, lobbying in D.C., farm bill is #1, buddying up with state DNR or game & fish. That being said it's disheartening when a serious conversation and consideration won't be given to a project or idea that sprung up in the grass roots membership of the organization itself. I think PF is a good group, I'm glad they're around, but that doesn't mean they're removed from constructive criticism or oversight by the members. $80 million is a pretty big cookie jar, I think it's OK if we question who is and is not allowed to stick their hand in.

Lastly one of the things I learned on this site specifically, and had no clue of before joining, was what true wild bird hunting is, in contrast to a commercial hunting lodge. In MN I go to game farms a few times a year, but one thing I wouldn't do is send/post a pen-raised bird pic without including that in the description. I agree with A5 100% on giving them hell for that. How many photos in their media are from a game farm? How many episodes of the Flush have went to "Plan B" as in Planted Bird. Not to mention the hot spoting they do.

Have a good night ultimate pheasant hunting,

Bob Peters

 

[Matt D]

When it comes to CEO compensation you have to keep in mind that they are competing with the open market for talent and as has been mentioned his pay rate for the size of the org is not out of line at all. It is easy to say I’d do it for less but almost all of us including me don’t fully understand what all is entailed and/or have the skill set to do that job. If they are truly operating at 86% to projects that is pretty clearness good IMO. I have no reason to think they aren’t. Also I am not saying they are perfect by any means and would encourage anyone with concerns that you reach out to someone and share those. At the end of the day there is a large pot of money there that can be put to work to improve habitat and increase bird numbers.

 

[hunter94]

as donors/members i think we have the right to real transparency.
if you want my support show me what you have done.
a donation of less than 50K dollars is shameful, to turn your nose up to that amount for any project
on their website they should list the states, counties and acres improved for habitat.
to say they don't have time to waste listing achievements is bullshit.
until they become truly transparent, i don't have time to waste writing a check!

 

[benelli-banger]

as donors/members i think we have the right to real transparency.
if you want my support show me what you have done.
a donation of less than 50K dollars is shameful, to turn your nose up to that amount for any project
on their website they should list the states, counties and acres improved for habitat.
to say they don't have time to waste listing achievements is bullshit.
until they become truly transparent, i don't have time to waste writing a check!

I bet if you looked, or asked for data, most conservation organizations would be happy to provide that info. You may not like it, but I bet that info is there. I have spent some time over the past few days looking at PF’s website and it seems to be replete with info about $ and projects they’ve been involved in. Nowadays, with controversy and scandals aplenty in most organizations, and, the ease of research and inquiry, it would seem foolish not to provide that, especially for a charity. I would start at the chapter level…call the local chapter head and chat, ask for specifics…take a drive. I know you’re committed and probably have done such things, but lots of guys maybe haven’t. PF publishes a breakdown by chapter and lists the acreage they’ve worked with.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

i refuse to give PF a dime, they cater to their own desires and to their own guys.

I will follow in your footsteps! I had no idea they were throwing away the hard earned cash I send them. God bless!

 

[benelli-banger]

I spent 5 minutes on the PF site and found a “public land acquisitions map”…says they’ve surpassed 212,000 acres of public lands contributions. Tap on the pheasant icon after expanding the map and a tab appears giving all the info you could ask
for, IMO…date acquired, county, acres, other partners, the PF chapter, and project details. I am not currently a member, have been most of the past 30 years, may be a member again. I give to the MN sharptail society, more grass-roots…literally! But, just pointing out that you can learn what most of these organizations do or have done. Many will welcome your help, too. I know MN sharptail society begs its members for help…brush clearing, burns, etc. I spend a lot of time and $ keeping 160 acres that I put into a permanent conservation easement reasonably well suited to the needs of pheasants…yes, private land, but I’m certain the birds that it produces travel around for others to chase, and, they propogate on neighboring properties. Anyway, hope you all have good ‘22 season… lots to be thankful for, including a mild winter thus far in much of SD…