Ogallala Water

Just enjoyng the crank phone discussion, M.R. We had one at the farm, one stormy 4th of July, while one of my aunts was using it, lighting hit the phone line somehwere down the line, and a fireball shot out of the speaker, bounced across the floor and hit the cabinets. In the ozarks, those were the fishing rig of choice!!! I even saw them with a special mount built on to a john boat. illegal everywhere as far as I knoiw, but sure takes the guessing out of what their biting on. Mostly after the bigger catfish. One of the more peculiar fishing techniques along with "noodling", now experimentally legal on some Missouri streams.
 
hey thanks Scottinohio- wife says she's a little she devil-

she's my special one- had to help my vet at 1:30am on a Sunday opening up her mother- tough time with her delivery- we didn't think we could save her- she sleeps on the bed with me

she really shines in the field with her dad- she has wheels and handles nicely-
 
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M. R. Byrd said:
Shadow,

If you like the Cimarron, maybe you will enjoy this song by my friend Bear Ward.

Ridin' Along the Cimarron-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCNasCxC0Cg&feature=related
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nice song-
freind of mine- Don Metcalf had a couple quads- we dropped off some gas- then drove and headed along the dry riverbed- some years back- there was water in a couple places- he had a case or so of beer on his quad- we couldn't find the vehicle- had to make a phone call- we were driven home
great time- we were looking for arrowheads:)
 
M. R. Byrd said:
In southwest Kansas, where the drought has been particularly bad, well tests in January showed the water level in some parts of the aquifer had dropped more than 5 feet in a year, said Brownlie Wilson of the Kansas Geological Survey at the University of Kansas.

The aquifer generally recharges only about half an inch a year.

“If you see conditions like that year after year, it won’t come back in your lifetime,” Wilson said.

I ASSUME THAT THIS ENTIRE QUOTE IS FROM BROWNIE. A COUPLE OF GEMS HERE, SOME PARTS DROPPED FIVE FEET AND THE AQUIFER GENERALLY RECHARGES ABOUT A HALF INCH A YEAR. AGAIN, NOT ROCKET SCIENCE HERE TO COMPREHEND BUT THE RATIO OF USE TO RECHARGE IS A VERY HIGH RATIO.
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In this situation the depletion(use) to recharge is 120:1, in other words 120 times more is being used than returned. Will some fuzzy math cure this?
 
I took all my Britt's we me this morning- Shadow had a date-
should have some really good pups

drove HWY 27 from Elkhart to the Cimmeron- looking pretty nice actually- water on the east side of the bridge in a couple places in the old river bed- even some tall green stuff stretches along with the river bottom aways-

Went and parked at The Point of Rocks Pond- actually quite a bit of water- like a couple circling waterways- old female hit it and swam for 1/2 hour right in the middle- other 3 were all over the place- had the Garmins on of course

nice to know there's some water that is pretty ok-

nice to see everything isn't all brown

came back- listened to that Cimmeron song- it fits
 
M. R. Byrd said:
In this situation the depletion(use) to recharge is 120:1, in other words 120 times more is being used than returned. Will some fuzzy math cure this?
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in your opinion- could we see some serious well problems- like should we be asking an experienced honest person to test these wells- here they say there's plenty of water underground, the wells are fine- but it sure makes you wonder

saw something on the way back that didn't quite seem to fit- 2 miles from here
5' tall very green corn field, with a cut right thru the center clean to the ground- some green stalk stuff on the sand road- semi came driveing past with a strapped down load on the flat bed- I'd say it was the stuff just cut out of the field- would they be cutting it for cattle feed
 
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Shadow said:
in your opinion- could we see some serious well problems- like should we be asking an experienced honest person to test these wells- here they say there's plenty of water underground, the wells are fine- but it sure makes you wonder

saw something on the way back that didn't quite seem to fit- 2 miles from here
5' tall very green corn field, with a cut right thru the center clean to the ground- some green stalk stuff on the sand road- semi came driveing past with a strapped down load on the flat bed- I'd say it was the stuff just cut out of the field- would they be cutting it for cattle feed
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I would say the decision was made that there was not enough water, either physically in the well, or the water allocation to produce a crop of grain, so it will go for silage.

What is happening right now with the irrigated corn is all across the board, some being abandoned, some being chopped for silage, some wiping back and forth on half the circle and abandoning the other half, some renozzling systems and watering only the inner part of the circle. I had one farmer tell me in the barber shop the other day that he has to keep running full circle even though it does not keep up with water use, or his crop insurance will be void.

The center pivot irrigation system was kind of the beginning of the end. With it, acres you would have never imagined being irrigated came into being, irrigation brought corn, corn brought feedyards, feedyards brought packing houses, and corn recently brought ethanol plants. Now the whole economy of this area revolves around the ability of huge quantities of water being mined(mined, taken out and nothing put back). Now for the politicians and city fathers and other leaders, "It is the economy stupid". In other words, should the ability to extract water from the Ogallala be reduced or stopped this whole economy crumbles. Well this drought is giving us a taste of what is ahead of us. Anyone can see that there is a brick wall in front of us and it appears that rather than back off, slow down, or maybe even step on the brakes, it is full throttle ahead. Terrible crash a coming, just don't know when.
 
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I have discussed previously the CREP For The Upper Arkansas River (CREP FUAR), so won't bore you with that discussion again. I will mention the following program, as it is written in the July 2011 issue of Ford County Conservation Facts, and I quote:

"Agricultural Water Enhancement Program-
The Southwest Groundwater Management District #3 has been approved for a 5-year program to encourage conversion from irrigation to dryland cropping. The Agricultural Water Enhancement Program (AWEP) provides incentives for reducing irrigation water use.

You can earn annual payments for specific practices that reduce water use. This program does not require conversion to native grass like CRP nor does it require that you surrender your water rights.

Areas in eleven counties were identified by GMD#3 and include two small areas in Ford County. Three primary eligibility requirements are:

1. Application water usage must meet or exceed 45% of water right application.
2. An average of 6 acre-inches/acre has been applied each year.
3. Land has been irrigated at least four out of the last six years.

You can continue to manage the land as dryland cropland or convert those acres to native grass. Payments could be up to $180 per acre each year for five years.

If you are interested in this program, have any questions or need more information, please contact our office." END QUOTE

I suspect this program will enjoy about the same success that the CREP FUAR enjoyed, with the only people interested in it being those irrigators that have pumped the required water for the program, but find now that their water is running out and they will trade worthless non producing well water for good dollars. Just my two cents.
 
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Seems to me that is a very high rate per acre. 115K per 640 acres if my math is correct.
 
Here is map-

AWEPMap.jpg
 
OKIEGunner said:
Seems to me that is a very high rate per acre. 115K per 640 acres if my math is correct.
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Oh, I think there will be some enrollment, especially after this year. Here is what I think will happen, the irrigator will look at those wells and/or well/soil combination that couldn't keep up this year and will put those in for some good money and keep pushing his best wells to the max. My main point is, just how much water is really being saved by this program and the CREP FUAR?
 
I don't have any information on how the proposed area was arrived at, or how some of the area overlaps into an area not suitable for dryland farming, unless those areas require grass establishment only. I don't know the answer. The small area of Ford County could go dryland or grass according to the newsletter.

I don't qualify for the program, first my land is not in the small area in Ford County and second, I am too conservative with my water use to qualify. It is not that I don't have the water to pump, it is that I choose not to pump it. My age and health is such that one day I might just turn it over to a young farmer and I am reasonably certain, my conservative views will not carry over, but the water will flow freely from the aquifer.
 
M. R. Byrd said:
Oh, I think there will be some enrollment, especially after this year. Here is what I think will happen, the irrigator will look at those wells and/or well/soil combination that couldn't keep up this year and will put those in for some good money and keep pushing his best wells to the max. My main point is, just how much water is really being saved by this program and the CREP FUAR?
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I take it the main goal is to reduce water consumption, by subsidizing. What is the overall reduction goal (30-50% for the area)? It would be interesting to track the current use and see how much reduction in H2O is made in the next few years.

I wonder what the price per gallon in the end will be.
 
OKIEGunner said:
I take it the main goal is to reduce water consumption, by subsidizing. What is the overall reduction goal (30-50% for the area)? It would be interesting to track the current use and see how much reduction in H2O is made in the next few years.

I wonder what the price per gallon in the end will be.
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I don't have the water figures. I think reduction will come only by the wells going dry or by poor water quality. The counties out west that had irrigators lined up waiting for the doors to open for the CREP FUAR were running out of water in their wells, but had the historical water use to qualify for enrollment in the fourteen year CRP program. So potential water use was traded into the program, but what water, that historic water that was there years ago. Susan Stover at the Water Office wanted a pump test required to get into the program, but that was not a requirement to show that you had actual water to trade.
 
Without a pump test, how the heck can they ensure any water conservation in the end? This is crazy, but I'm not surprised. People make stupid decision when they are playing around with someone else’s money. :mad:
 
OKIEGunner said:
Without a pump test, how the heck can they ensure any water conservation in the end? This is crazy, but I'm not surprised. People make stupid decision when they are playing around with someone else’s money. :mad:
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I wanted to retire my water rights and enter the CREP FUAR program, because I was in the spirit of water conservation, but my conservative use prohibited me from even applying. I offered pump test, talked to my elected officials, but found out no exceptions, besides I was told they(USDA) wanted the big boys to retire their water rights. And I said, "Okay, I am all ears, explain this to me, if you please."
 
Well, for what it’s worth, I applaud your conservative approach over the years. If more people had the same intellect thought-process we would not be in this mess.

What is real puzzling is providing incentives for reducing irrigation water use, and at the same time pushing ethanol plants (a huge consumer of H2O) as a way of becoming greener.

Like you said in a previous post, eight States are major players. Getting all of them to do the right thing will be next to impossible. Each State will be fighting to keep each others interest as it pertains to the potential economic impacts.
 
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