Number five steel

[BrownDogsCan2]

Yes, 2 good legs equates to a track star. But they can & will run, or at least make themselves scarce, on 2 shattered legs. The will to survive is that strong. For this reason, I want my dog to break for the bird immediately. If the flush &/or dog's actions force me to hold my shot, then so be it. That has happened maybe twice in the 16 seasons I've owned springers. Our recovery rate is over 95% in the most challenging cover around, on birds as healthy, smart & wild as they come. (not trying to hijack thread....really)

A5 your dog is never in the way? We were hunting yesterday and the dogs ended up in the way and I saw this post. It got me thinking that 2 or 3 or 5 times a year I have to pass or wait and take a long shot waiting on the bird to clear the dog. Happened enough last year for me think about steadying my next dog. This year at least twice already and I don't really kill that many birds. Happens to me more late season when it seems like more birds choose to flush straight away. I suppose it could be terrain ( uphill) or cover or maybe even distance. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that everyone run out and steady their dog, what works for you obviously works. But on the other side I don't see much difference in a bird blowing out left and the dog on the right. The routine is now stretched to 40 or 50 yds. If he can mark,steady or not and has worked enough birds he can make that retrieve including runners

 

[Goosemaster]

Yes, 2 good legs equates to a track star. But they can & will run, or at least make themselves scarce, on 2 shattered legs. The will to survive is that strong. For this reason, I want my dog to break for the bird immediately. If the flush &/or dog's actions force me to hold my shot, then so be it. That has happened maybe twice in the 16 seasons I've owned springers. Our recovery rate is over 95% in the most challenging cover around, on birds as healthy, smart & wild as they come. (not trying to hijack thread....really)

I don't like that deader is better thing. Show some compassion dude.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

I will add...... If you switch from lead to steel , pay attention to the FPS. Some of the magnum steel shot is crazy fast (1700 fps +). This will throw your normal leads way off.

The real fast stuff also is more difficult to hold together. If super speed is your thing, I highly recommend you pattern your loads & experiment with chokes. You may be surprised what you find.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

A5 your dog is never in the way? We were hunting yesterday and the dogs ended up in the way and I saw this post. It got me thinking that 2 or 3 or 5 times a year I have to pass or wait and take a long shot waiting on the bird to clear the dog. Happened enough last year for me think about steadying my next dog. This year at least twice already and I don't really kill that many birds. Happens to me more late season when it seems like more birds choose to flush straight away. I suppose it could be terrain ( uphill) or cover or maybe even distance. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that everyone run out and steady their dog, what works for you obviously works. But on the other side I don't see much difference in a bird blowing out left and the dog on the right. The routine is now stretched to 40 or 50 yds. If he can mark,steady or not and has worked enough birds he can make that retrieve including runners

Interesting. But to answer your question, no, not never. But it's extremely rare.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

I don't like that deader is better thing. Show some compassion dude.

You're certainly entitled to your feelings & entitled to air them. To me, compassion is putting a bird on the ground hard so retrieval is almost guaranteed, preferably killing him in the air. IMO, deader IS better. (and more catchy than crass)

 

[John Singer]

The real fast stuff also is more difficult to hold together. If super speed is your thing, I highly recommend you pattern your loads & experiment with chokes. You may be surprised what you find.

It has been my experience that fast steel loads tend to pattern very well. Some of my best patterning steel loads have velocities of ~1700 fps. That fast loads do not pattern well is likely a myth hold over from lead shot. Fast lead shot loads tended to deform the pellets resulting in flyers. Steel does not have that issue.

The downside of ultra fast steel loads is that they kill at both ends of the gun.

For most upland and waterfowl hunting, I like loads in the 1400 fps range.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

It has been my experience that fast steel loads tend to pattern very well. Some of my best patterning steel loads have velocities of ~1700 fps. That fast loads do not pattern well is likely a myth hold over from lead shot. Fast lead shot loads tended to deform the pellets resulting in flyers. Steel does not have that issue.

The downside of ultra fast steel loads is that they kill at both ends of the gun.

For most upland and waterfowl hunting, I like loads in the 1400 fps range.

Not a myth, at least as far as my experience goes. Not that there aren't fast loads out there that pattern well (& yes, they've improved a lot in the last 20 years). But I think in general, with most gun/choke combinations, real fast steel, especially bigger shot, is more difficult to hold together. The smaller the shot, the more forgiving it tends to be. My preference with steel is #3's at about 1450 for ducks & pheasants, and #1's at about 1650 for most geese.

 

[duckn66]

Just remember that with steel the rule of thumb is 2 shot sizes larger than you would use with lead to have similar energy. If your shooting 5 shot steel in theory your shooting 7 shot lead.

I like 3 inch 3s or 4s out of my 12 guage on phez. It knocks their you know what in the dirt!