Nstra

I run my GSP in a few NSTRA events each season. Helps keep him and me in shape. He isn't the best and he isn't the worst. It makes him a much better dog in the fall as he already has had a few birds shot over him and he has to mind his manners. Usually finds 2 or 3 in the allotted time. As far as running in a brace, the best dog usually wins the most trials by the end of the season. Our group usually has 8-10 trails in the spring and same amount in the fall. We are currently struggling to get a full trial of 26 dogs. Not as many pointers around this area.
Remember its still a game at the end of the day. Its the most economical game as the entry fees are usually $30-$35 per brace. You don't need a horse or trainer. I would put most of the NSTRA dogs against any dog for finding and retrieving. Great place to look for your next dog.
 
Dakotazeb said:
Ken,

Not sure what you are talking about with "horseback". Are you referring to the AKC trials? No horseback in NSTRA.

Sure wish there was someone on this site that has run a dog in the NSTRA trials. I need a little insight before I show up at a trial. Suppose I should go and just view one prior to participating but there are so few in the area that isn't practical.

I've run dogs in a few Gun Dog Challenges but they are a totally different deal.

Zeb
Click to expand...

Yes The AKC trials, I was wondering if those are all horseback for all pointers. That would be tough for just anyone to train that way I would think.Thought that might have somthing to do with the push twoards NSTRA.
I like the sound of the designated gunner thing in NSTRA, if you have tallented gunners. We don't gun ourselves and that is great so you can consetrate on handling the dog. Good to see you found someone helpfull here.:thumbsup: If you get rolling you can always come here to train, seems like it would be helpfull with help, as it is with us too.
 
Itâ??s true that the AKC horseback trials for pointing dogs have evolved into a game that doesnâ??t really have much value to a foot hunter. As bobeyerite implied, a dog w/ a great nose may find birds in close that the bigger running dogs have missed but he wonâ??t get called back because he didnâ??t get out as far. I donâ??t know any hunters who would rather have their dogs pass birds but run â??prettyâ?�.

Similarily, the AKC retriever trials have developed in such a way that many hunters donâ??t appreciate. This was the root cause for the creation of the whole â??hunt-testâ?� concept in the early 80â??s.

But FCSpringer is also correct (IMHO) in defending the AKC Springer field trial program. While field trial spaniels do run bigger than some hunters are comfortable with, the distance they can hunt from their handler remains limited by the range of a shotgun. I think this is why spaniel field trials remain the most realistic field trial program of them all.

The NSTRA format attempts to address the hunters needs for a pointing dog that the AKC format ignores but the fact is any time you apply rules to try to evaluate â??the bestâ?� of something, you inevitably change what you started with. For example, by using a time limit and # of birds found to measure â??the bestâ?�, you cheapen (again IMHO) the pursuit of birds by making it into a race. The rules of this game reward the handler who blasts a bird at close range thus saving valuable time but often leaving the bird inedible. There is also a definite advantage of having a dog that breaks on the flush. Often a pen raised quail will only fly a short distance after the flush so even if the gunner misses, his dog can still get the points for the retrieve.
 
Nimrod,

Thanks for the insight. I think all the trials and bird dog challenges have their pluses and minuses. Those that like them and those that don't. I'm just looking for a fun event to use to further train my dog in the off season and get her on more birds. I don't care about winning at this point.

Zeb
 
It's all a matter of preference and perspective.

I'm most familiar with pointing dog events.

Yes there are walking and horseback trials for pointing dogs. Where handlers/scouts (if used) and judges are all on horses (not to be confused with the many events where the judges alone may be atop a horse). When you hear all-age, it's likely a big country horseback trial event. Range/speed/style/search are all rated pretty high in such events and as I understand it, it is very possible to have a dog who finds more birds--but is slower, has shorter range, looks lousy running etc....fail to place well. Just a different game, not necessarily worse for a hunter.

A western big country hunter might well favor a winning all age horseback dog for his hunting needs. The same all age dog may well drive a tight quarters grouse/woodcock hunter nuts (although some do adjust their range to the cover).

Every dog game has it's proponents and detractors. NSTRA is fine by me but it is not a perfect game either, IMO. The best dog in the world can fare poorly in NSTRA if it's handler doesn't shoot well. It rewards speed at the expense of manners on game, some say. As was noted a retrieve can be made on a bird that wasn't shot and is counted. Rumor has it one of the biggest NSTRA dogs of all time learned to follow tracks made by the bird planters right to the birds.

For the average foot hunting moderate to close range pointing dog hunter, I've always thought AKC hunt test and NAVHDA test success to be the best predictor of being a good hunter, but they aren't perfect either. In some of the versatile breeds you can find lines of dogs with a lot of success in multiple different venues.
 
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Dakotazeb said:
Nimrod,

Thanks for the insight. I think all the trials and bird dog challenges have their pluses and minuses. Those that like them and those that don't. I'm just looking for a fun event to use to further train my dog in the off season and get her on more birds. I don't care about winning at this point.

Zeb
Click to expand...

I Just started NSTRA for the same reason & I also belong to NAVHDA. If you hang out with the folks that seem to be there for the same reason you are You will have a good time.
 
True that you have to shoot well at NSTRA but no rules about plugs or multiple shots either. Thats why I shoot cylinder with 9 shot. Yea the occasional bird gets blown up but I have seen that in real hunting to. I go to a few trials each spring and fall and most of the birds are cleaned and eaten. You do score on a retrieve if you miss, but as with the dog improving you need to improve your shooting skills or have a gunner. If you can't shoot a pen quail how are you ever going to hit a wild bird. Thats why I shoot a round of skeet a few weeks before the trails start. If it wasn't based on time you wouldn't get all the braces in. Not defending the entire game as with most it has its faults, but its still a good place to work and improve your dog in the off season with out a huge amount of money.
Our region has produced the number one dog the last few years and I have never seen that dog follow the bird planters tracks. These dogs still handle better, find birds, don't bust birds and retrieve than dogs that don't play the game.
NSTRA is game and games have rules and are judged. More like hunting in that you actually can shoot over your dog.
The NAVDHA has its place but its a test and not like a hunting game at all. Good for seeing if the dog has any ability and is trainable.
 
Does NSTRA use only quail in their trials regardless of location? If that is the case what choke and size shot is generally used. I'll be using my 16 ga. Citori. I was thinking of getting a Skeet choke and using Skeet/IC with #8 shot.
 
Zeb sorry for getting back to you so late,skeet and i/c is exactly what I use.Skeet is a very forgiving choke.As far as shot size,I watch the wind.If it is 15 mph. or more I use 7 1/2 low brass of my first shot and 7 1/2 high brass for the second shot.I'll use low brass for both barrels if the winds are under 15 mph.As far as I know nstra only uses quail.
 
NSTRA only uses quail. I use 9 shot if its not very windy. 8 shot if its windy. Most birds are getting up at your feet so you have plenty of time to shoot them. Most misses are because of rushing the shot.
 
Thanks for the posts guys. I think I'll go with the Skeet/IC for chokes and either 7 1/2 or 8 shot. Of course it appears that if you go with 8 shot you are limited to low base shells which is probably all I will need anyway. Like I said in my earlier post I'll be shooting my 16 ga. Citori.
 
One shell that might work well for you guys is the Kent 1,450 fps fitasc diamond shot lo base shells. I have had great sucess with these shells even on pheasants. The smaller game birds don't seem to stand a chance, and they pattern beautifull.
 
you don't really have to hit these pen birds that hard to knock them down, which is all you are trying to accomplish. Light loads are more than sufficient. Most shots are less than 25 yards.
 
George, I think the birds vary from event to event. Here in Washington my bird dog club, that sponsors a NSTRA event every April, uses Chukars. Some of the other clubs use Quail.......Bob
 
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