No v.s. Whoa

MindofMurphy

New member
I just became the proud poppa of a GSP puppy. I picked him up at 8 1/2 weeks old and he is now 14 weeks old. This is my first experience training a bird dog. Growing up, I hunted with GSP's quite often but had nothing to do with the training. I also trained a couple of family dogs but not in any bird dog fashion. The dog will be an indoor/outdoor dog. I have just realized what might be an error on my part already. I am understanding the high importance of a "whoa" trained dog. Since bringing the puppy home, I have used the word "no" in a stern voice to stop it from unacceptable behavior. My questions are, have i already ruined my chances of using the word "whoa" effectively when it comes time to train the command by using a word that sounds so similar to "no"? Should I continue using "no" and come up with a different word for "whoa"? should I quit worrying about it and use both "no" and "whoa" as intended?
 
when i dont want my dog to do something i tell him to quit, leave it, stop. the word no is to close to the word whoa. the dog will get really confused when you tell him whoa in the field and the dog thinks he is doing something wrong.
 
This is going to be hard to explain. When I trained Tony my Brittany. I used "NO" when as a pup, he would try to sneak a goodie off the fireplace surrounding. Things of that nature. Which means to him, "don't do it". I should add I can now lay a T-Bone steak on the fireplace surrounding and he will not touch it. When I taught "WHOA", I taught it to mean one thing and one thing only, "stop where you and don't move." Whoa, is also used 99% of the time outside the home. On daily runs and in the hunting fields. I hope this helps........Bob
 
You haven't ruined your dog. Dogs can tell the difference its in the tone. Whoa means stop and don't move until released. Very useful when approaching a road or the need to wait on me. Whoa when another dog is pointing and he hasn't seen it yet.
NO means stop doing whatever. Like this "NO" screamed extremely loud and angry when pointing a skunk. Then run fast the other way.
 
I just became the proud poppa of a GSP puppy. I picked him up at 8 1/2 weeks old and he is now 14 weeks old. This is my first experience training a bird dog. Growing up, I hunted with GSP's quite often but had nothing to do with the training. I also trained a couple of family dogs but not in any bird dog fashion. The dog will be an indoor/outdoor dog. I have just realized what might be an error on my part already. I am understanding the high importance of a "whoa" trained dog. Since bringing the puppy home, I have used the word "no" in a stern voice to stop it from unacceptable behavior. My questions are, have i already ruined my chances of using the word "whoa" effectively when it comes time to train the command by using a word that sounds so similar to "no"? Should I continue using "no" and come up with a different word for "whoa"? should I quit worrying about it and use both "no" and "whoa" as intended?

Congrats on the family addition! Here's wishing you all the joys partnering with a dog can bring.

You have not ruined the opportunity to accomplish your goals - the dog is a sponge at this point, just waiting to absorb whatever you wash over him. He'll be fine.

Yes, you do not want rhyming commands. I adopted the practices suggested by a great dog training friend. Instead of "whoa", I use "wait" (which, my friend pointed out, originated with George Bird Dog Evans). For "no", I use "ahh". Occasionally, "no" still slips out, but it's ok since I don't use whoa, there's nothing for it to rhyme with. :)

Best of luck, and have fun!
 
Thanks for the insight everyone. I'm sure I'll be on this forum quite often during this "adventure" of getting my pup ready to hunt. Everyone seems to be on the same team here and offers very good advice/criticism. Thanks again.
 
No Problem

I just became the proud poppa of a GSP puppy. I picked him up at 8 1/2 weeks old and he is now 14 weeks old. This is my first experience training a bird dog. Growing up, I hunted with GSP's quite often but had nothing to do with the training. I also trained a couple of family dogs but not in any bird dog fashion. The dog will be an indoor/outdoor dog. I have just realized what might be an error on my part already. I am understanding the high importance of a "whoa" trained dog. Since bringing the puppy home, I have used the word "no" in a stern voice to stop it from unacceptable behavior. My questions are, have i already ruined my chances of using the word "whoa" effectively when it comes time to train the command by using a word that sounds so similar to "no"? Should I continue using "no" and come up with a different word for "whoa"? should I quit worrying about it and use both "no" and "whoa" as intended?

Not a problem because your tone of voice and the context will be different. Start "whoa" training on your leash walks. Say "whoa" and stop pup with leash. It'll catch on and begin to stop at "whoa" at which time you will, of course, reward his good behavior. For range training in the field use a spike collar on a long check lead, saying "whoa" just before pup hits the end of the lead and gets the spikes. Use the check lead to alter the pups direction, moving yourself with your arm extended in the direction you are moving and you want pup to move. He'll get it after all the signals you've given him around the house and yard.

Start using hand signals around the house and yard for in/out of the house, in the crate, in/out the car, in/out of a particular room. It'll catch on and transfer to the field. In the field I use the arm extended straight up for "come/move toward me" leaving loud "come" and "here" calls unnecessary. When I want my dog to scent or bust some cover I extend my arm toward it and off he goes.
 
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I just became the proud poppa of a GSP puppy. I picked him up at 8 1/2 weeks old and he is now 14 weeks old. This is my first experience training a bird dog. Growing up, I hunted with GSP's quite often but had nothing to do with the training. I also trained a couple of family dogs but not in any bird dog fashion. The dog will be an indoor/outdoor dog. I have just realized what might be an error on my part already. I am understanding the high importance of a "whoa" trained dog. Since bringing the puppy home, I have used the word "no" in a stern voice to stop it from unacceptable behavior. My questions are, have i already ruined my chances of using the word "whoa" effectively when it comes time to train the command by using a word that sounds so similar to "no"? Should I continue using "no" and come up with a different word for "whoa"? should I quit worrying about it and use both "no" and "whoa" as intended?

Absolutely not. I use both commands, but I use the word "no" in a stern voice for general "don't do that" training. When I use the whoa command I use it in a much softer voice. In addition, I actually soften my voice while saying whoa as I approach my dog while he is locked up on point. By the time I reach my dog I am almost whispering the whoa command. When close enough, I then release him for the flush. Don't worry, nothing is ruined. Your dog will absolutely know the difference between the two commands if you use them in different tones (and situations) as I mentioned. :thumbsup:

It works for me. I hope this helps.

Good hunting.

Paul
 
Why whoa

Where did whoa come from. I am sure it works along with No.. but why have two commands so close in sound. It would seem that word can be replaced with any other word and I mean any other word, steady, stop you could say peanutbutter and the dog would not know the difference if he was trained to that sound (word). I am curious on why whoa rather then stop ever caought on...
 
Very good answer Donnie........Bob
 
I would say Phird05 is spot on. Have not had any problems with my GSP and I used the same method he described.

I would also say training a dog is all about association so you could use whatever word you wanted. I know most people use the standard commands for consistency. Especially when out in the field so others can help when needed (ie dog is running a bird across a road and if you don't see him but your hunting partner does he knows to say "whoa" to stop the dog so he doesn't get hit by a car). If you use other commands new hunting partners might not be able to help save the dog.

Have fun next season your in for some good times.
 
I don't know if I said this recently but you ALL ROCK!!! I was just sitting here wondering this same question as I have a 3 mo old GSP I just brought home. We have always had German Shepherds non pointing or hunting :) anyways I have used basic dog commands for their training but was afraid that might be a bad idea so I have have tried to break my bad habit of "no" and use "leave it" which will be of much better use in the field next year seems to work well. Anyways is there any where I can go and get a list of commands and terms used for pointers because like i said I am clueless. Thanks
 
Ok I will try. I may have to edit this a few times so keep an eye on it. 3 month old puppy, take it slow and no pressure just let him get use to doing it. If you can make a game of it.

Field
"here/come" I also use this command for when it retrieves a bird to bring it to me.
"steady/whoa" for when on point or you want to make him stay on point. Or if it gets to far a head and you want to catch up.
"Drop" if you want him to hand you the bird
"Fetch
a "go hunting" signal. I use "find the bird" I know it is more than one word. But he gets the message. I also use it when I shoot a bird he don't see drop. Some hunters use "dead" when this happens, but I just don't like the sound of that.
I would use a whistle along with my voice. In the field your voice gets lost quick a whistle works much better. I short blast for come one long blast for whoa. whatever you want to use. As you give the command by voice-quickly blow the whistle. That way the dog will associate the whistle with the voice command.


For Home Use

"Sit". There are those that are going scream you never have a pointer sit. But after a hunt, I want to check his ears and eyes real close for seeds and things. I bought one of those special tip lights like a Vet uses at the Drug Store. When he is sitting nice and quiet it is easy to get the job done. Do it now as a puppy, they like the attention and it will get them use to the idea of you handling, poking and looking at them.
"Your leave it command"
"Get it done" This a special command I use. It is to tell the dog "go potty" As a puppy go outside with the dog and keep telling it this command. So it will be going potty on command. It is useful or trips, you stop at a rest area. You take the dog out of the vehicle give the command and it go's for you.
"Outside" asking the dog to go out and go potty.
"Kennel" this a duel purpose command. I have my dog cage trained and I would strongly recommend it. Plus he has a 5x10 kennel in the back yard. Cage training is really good, I have a cage in my SUV and one in the House. No muddy seats, when its "bed time" they sleep in the cage. It turns into a safe haven for them if never used it for punishment. I leave the cage door open in the day time and my dog will go in there and take a nap at times. I use this "Kennel" command also when I want the dog to jump up into his crate in my SUV. I might add; my dog loves to go to bed, when clock chimes 9:00 in the evening, he will automatically walk to back door. I let him out, when he comes back in. He goes to and gets into his crate and waits for me. He never closes the door when he comes into the house. I then go to him and close the gate, he is done for the day.

That is all I can think of now I will come back to it if I think of more.

One more thing now is the time to start breaking for gun shyness. I do it this way. The home is private no banging on pans and that crap. I got a .22 blank starters gun. It fits in my back pants pocket. Start taking it along for play runs a field. When the dog gets out 15-20 yards reach in your pocket a fire one shot. Behind your back and do NOT let the dog see the gun. The dog will most likely look around and come back to you. This is very IMPORTANT. Do nothing and say nothing just keep walking like nothing happened. The dog will see you are Ok and take off again. A bit later do it again, the shot and nothing. No more than 3 shots per outting/run. Keep doing it until the dog just looks at you and/or keeps on running. You then know the dog is gun broke. That would be the time to get a larger cal. pistol and some blanks and get it use to louder bangs........Bob
 
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