Hunted a serious cross section of NE Kansas yesterday, from Fairview all the way to Seneca, and north and south of 36. I have never seen it like this. Zero bird contact! had 3 experienced dogs down, scenting conditions good with lots of ground moisture, cover heavy, and bordered by corn, or milo. Not a feather! Hunted private ground and a little walkin area that has always produced. Message clear, Go West, and probably south west, as reports from NC Kansas and SC Nebraska are not up to snuff either. May take a few years to recover. Looks like it's going to take some serious driving time this year.
NE Kansas Report
- Thread starter oldandnew
- Start date
kscountryboy11
New member
bad hatch about 2 years ago..means few birds this year... plus heavy rainfall and lots of snow on the ground for almost 2 straight months... havnt been up around cuba/belleville area yet this year. i kno numbers are down but will probably still make a trip up there for a day or two.
NElabaholic
Member
Just got done with some WIHA north of 24 Highway with my pup and got into a covey of about 20 quail. He pointed the covey and we got 2 out of it, then we hunted singles and ended up gettin a limit out of it, heres some pics:
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I just got home from a south of Washington and didn't know what WIHA to even stop at and spent most of the day driving around looking at them trying to get one of them to jump out and me and get me to stop. I ended up talking to some guys who pointed me to a section and I went to it. Walked about 40 minutes and kicked up 2 hens and a couple quail within 1/2 mile of walking.
Completely wasted a day of hunting by driving around not know what habitat I should stop at. It was only 1 hunter and 1 dog so I didn't want to tackle any large grass section but I couldn't find milo stubble with any nice grass corners or water ways.
Completely wasted a day of hunting by driving around not know what habitat I should stop at. It was only 1 hunter and 1 dog so I didn't want to tackle any large grass section but I couldn't find milo stubble with any nice grass corners or water ways.
Nice Job, but next time you bust a covey of only 20 birds,please don't kill 40% of the covey. Just a little fyi from a guy in what used to be the quail capitol of the world,SEK.
I was thinking the same thing.
I was also thinking the same, but I decided to let someone else break the news. I grew up chasing quail on the family farm near Greenbush, Crawford , Co. I remember as a boy you couldn't swing a cat without busting a covey! Now I'm glad to see a few birds. We have not only lost the birds but an entire generation of quail hunters who learned the code of quail hunting. No shooting 1 hour before dark, never shoot a covey down below the survival threshold, etc. now they all hunt pheasants, more of a anything goes type of hunt, poor old quail don't have the same rules and suffer. I can't blame this guy, he never heard any of this before. Want to see pathetic, look at the companion Ultimate Quail Forum, months go by and nobody posts.
kansasbrittany
Banned
I 3rd or 4th that notion. I'm glad someone else said something b/c it needed to be said.....I just didn't want everyone to think I was trying to make rules b/c of the mod title. As a hunter, I got a bad feeling in my gut when he said he took an entire limit out of one covey. Good shooting and good dogwork no doubt, but if someone else comes along and "only" takes 4 more, then a predator gets 2, it is doubtful that 6 of them will be able to survive any kind of hard winter.
I didn't want to be accused of "holier then thou".
One thing though, is when you scatter a covey how long do you think it takes for them to covey back up?
Hour?
I busted a covey yesterday around 2 or so, and worked a single or two with the dogs (didn't shoot any) and moved on. I could hear them calling to each other within a half hour.
Other times I really worry, especially when it's cold.
Thoughts?
One thing though, is when you scatter a covey how long do you think it takes for them to covey back up?
Hour?
I busted a covey yesterday around 2 or so, and worked a single or two with the dogs (didn't shoot any) and moved on. I could hear them calling to each other within a half hour.
Other times I really worry, especially when it's cold.
Thoughts?
Depends on the weather,I have seen a covey regroup within an hour,but it was real cold.Other times all day,but really warm.
One time,we busted a covey in a hedge row,they scattered both directions,,we worked some singles up,and turned around to walk back to the truck,maybe 15 mins,and they where already covey calling.and we busted 6 birds already bunched up,so I think its all about the weather.
kiotehntr
Super Moderator
Great pictures and good job on the birds. That being said why is anyone "bashing" on the OP for shooting that many birds out of that covey? He was hunting......Isn't that what we do? Maybe he was supplementing food due to the economy? Go ahead and flame me but I think that the board as a whole is letting "their way of hunting ethics are the best" or "my way of hunting or the highway" get in the way of some common sense when they post. I guess fire away, but I do know and understand the reasons why thinning the herd like that can be bad also.......
kansasbrittany
Banned
I don't think anyone is "bashing" him. Everyone has been courteous in their responses. I'm sure he doesn't realize the potential results of his actions. Nobody is holding it against him, we're just sharing with him what we know or think we know about quail coveys. I was raised not to shoot so many birds out of a covey and I'm passing it along to him. If he doesn't agree or follow suit that's his decision. If we're wrong then so be it.
I hope there are no hard feelings on behalf of the OP and if there are b/c of my post, I sincerly apologize.
The way I understand quail coveys, we shouldn't cut their #'s in half when we first find them. It seems to me it would've been better to take half a limit out of one covey, then go find another one. If he goes back and takes another 6, I'd bet my next paycheck there will not be a covey there next season.
Even if he is hunting, don't we have a responsibilty to try to make sure that there are some for next time?
A good dog and a couple of hunters can devastate a quail population unlike phez. It may not be the sole reason, but it is a contributing factor why quail numbers are so low in some areas.
Ks Britt, nice post.
kiotehntr
Super Moderator
I find it humerous that one day it's all about the habitat and lack of it that's the contributing factor for declining populations, then, a fairly new member with what appears to be a fairly young GSP posts some pictures and tells of his good success and suddenly limiting out on a covey of 20 quail becomes the contributing factor for decline in population! Besides last time I checked a limit of quail was 8 the picture showed only 5. That would be only 25% of the birds gone, not 40%....
Quail ethics
By definition quail hunters are hide-bound traditionalists. We all do it the way we were taught, by people who learned it from the generation before. It's ritualistic, and the bird lends itself to this by it's predictability. If you find the quail covey in a certain place, at a certain time today, it's going to be in that small home territory, 40@ or so forever, or until destroyed. It takes a minimum of 8 birds together to survive extremely cold weather. It takes a covey of at least 8 to keep an eye out for predators. Everything, eats a quail! Hunting quail is a walk in the fields, you mostly hunt your dog, dog hunts the birds. Pheasant hunters are by comparison, and must be, a much more predatory animal, I am when I'm hunting pheasants, pheasants do not get or deserve any quarter from me, I've been made a fool of too many times! it's just a difference in philosophy of the particular game. I think if honesty rules I am a quail hunter who occasionally bags pheasants, as incidental to the hunt. I bet there are more on this site. We are a beleaguered lot because our bird is on hard times so we hunt a little more for pheasants, because there are more pheasants. No doubt a majority here are pheasant hunters first foremost and always, heck some of us live where quail have always been scarce, or non-existent. As more and more of the pheasant people hunt Kansas, the quail are going to be bonus birds, our only intent is to guide the consumption of a fragile resource, to perserve at least what we have. Nobody's mad at anyone here. I remember farmers who would cheerfully give permission to hunt pheasants, add " but don't shoot the quail". Quail people are proprietory, you see. Pheasants are here today, on the neighbor's 3 miles away tommorrow.
By definition quail hunters are hide-bound traditionalists. We all do it the way we were taught, by people who learned it from the generation before. It's ritualistic, and the bird lends itself to this by it's predictability. If you find the quail covey in a certain place, at a certain time today, it's going to be in that small home territory, 40@ or so forever, or until destroyed. It takes a minimum of 8 birds together to survive extremely cold weather. It takes a covey of at least 8 to keep an eye out for predators. Everything, eats a quail! Hunting quail is a walk in the fields, you mostly hunt your dog, dog hunts the birds. Pheasant hunters are by comparison, and must be, a much more predatory animal, I am when I'm hunting pheasants, pheasants do not get or deserve any quarter from me, I've been made a fool of too many times! it's just a difference in philosophy of the particular game. I think if honesty rules I am a quail hunter who occasionally bags pheasants, as incidental to the hunt. I bet there are more on this site. We are a beleaguered lot because our bird is on hard times so we hunt a little more for pheasants, because there are more pheasants. No doubt a majority here are pheasant hunters first foremost and always, heck some of us live where quail have always been scarce, or non-existent. As more and more of the pheasant people hunt Kansas, the quail are going to be bonus birds, our only intent is to guide the consumption of a fragile resource, to perserve at least what we have. Nobody's mad at anyone here. I remember farmers who would cheerfully give permission to hunt pheasants, add " but don't shoot the quail". Quail people are proprietory, you see. Pheasants are here today, on the neighbor's 3 miles away tommorrow.
I don't believe I said anything about it being solely about loss of habitat.
I just stated that over hunting a covey can be a contributing factor in it's decline.
I have no problem with a fella working his dogs on a covey. Believe me, I understand better then anyone the importance of wild birds, more importantly, quail for the development of a young pointing dog.
I'm not trying to flame the OP... Not at all.
BTW, when someone says that they shot a limit, I assume that they know the limits and I believe them. Maybe they didn't get all the birds in the picture. Who knows. So when they say they shot 8 I believe them.
Covey rises, counts, and limits.
As an aside, the poster used the word "limit" even though the picture showed 5 birds. I will also tell you point blank that almost all new quail hunters grossly over estimate the covey size, therefore, I would say that a 20 bird covey, more likely 12 to 15, actually, hard to shoot at missles and get an accurate count. So 5 of more like 12 to 15, same as 8 of 20. 8 of course been the Kansas limit since the 1960's. I will say that it is likely other quail in the area, so remnants of this covey will form up with other coveys. When that happens, and we again get up 12-20 birds, harvest of 4 or so will again be in play. Difficult to be critical of this eventuality.
As an aside, the poster used the word "limit" even though the picture showed 5 birds. I will also tell you point blank that almost all new quail hunters grossly over estimate the covey size, therefore, I would say that a 20 bird covey, more likely 12 to 15, actually, hard to shoot at missles and get an accurate count. So 5 of more like 12 to 15, same as 8 of 20. 8 of course been the Kansas limit since the 1960's. I will say that it is likely other quail in the area, so remnants of this covey will form up with other coveys. When that happens, and we again get up 12-20 birds, harvest of 4 or so will again be in play. Difficult to be critical of this eventuality.
Should the State adjust the limits for different regions to help maintain the populations for the areas that are in a decline? Because when they say it's legal to shoot 8 then most people will feel safe operating within the limits of the law. However they probably make the assumption that most people won't be able to get a limit out of a single covey.
kansasbrittany
Banned
Good points. I'd like to see a limit change for quail just to improve public hunting opportunities for them. Coveys get shot up quick on public land. A lower limit isn't going to come close to improving quail #'s over all, but it may make it easier to find a covey or 2 on public land in December/January.
The other good point is that the state probably doesn't expect many hunters to be able to shoot a limit out of one covey. It takes great dog work and a very good shot (obviously the OP is/has both). I for one can get 8 points out of a covey, but I ain't gettin' 8 dead birds b/c of my shooting inability. By mid-season that changes (shooting always improves) and I take a couple of birds and move on.
I dont think anyone was lambasting Labaholic, Ive been hunting since I was a little boy and though I was introduced to quail hunting at the or start of what I would call the drastic decline of SE KS quail hunting (89-early 90's, is my point of reference) it was ingrained in me that you take a few birds from a covey and then leave the rest alone or they wont survive and leave some for the next time.
Now with the lower #'s I hope Labaholic will at least listen to what was said if we are interpreting his story correctly and understand how taking out nearly half the population from one covey can destroy it for the next year.
I know im painting with a broad brush but thats what frustrates me with some out of state hunters here on a blood mission on some of the public lands I used to go to. Theres a particular city and public hunting area just west of Wichita that Ive seen garner more and more press on the internet and in magazines over the past few years. And with the increased attention Ive seen increased hunters and the tactics they employ such as shooting out an entire covey. I think they figure they drove all that way and they are going to get a limit of birds come hell or high water. Needless to say I dont go to that place much anymore.
I know personally I dont want to take many birds out of one covey if its smaller in size. There are some coveys I used to hunt near Holomb that would hold 30-50 birds consistently and they were smart as hell! Hence their high #'s so I didnt feel bad chasing them around a bit more. They normally just gave me fits and Id only end up with 1-4 before they all vanished. I dont think Ive ever come across a covey as smart as the large 50 bird one Id always see. Theyd run like pheasants, scatter in all directions, hold so tight youd have to step on one before theyd fly and employ all sorts of tactics. It always made for a fun hunt. Quail hunting will always be my first love but pheasants help to take the place for the time being.
Now with the lower #'s I hope Labaholic will at least listen to what was said if we are interpreting his story correctly and understand how taking out nearly half the population from one covey can destroy it for the next year.
I know im painting with a broad brush but thats what frustrates me with some out of state hunters here on a blood mission on some of the public lands I used to go to. Theres a particular city and public hunting area just west of Wichita that Ive seen garner more and more press on the internet and in magazines over the past few years. And with the increased attention Ive seen increased hunters and the tactics they employ such as shooting out an entire covey. I think they figure they drove all that way and they are going to get a limit of birds come hell or high water. Needless to say I dont go to that place much anymore.
I know personally I dont want to take many birds out of one covey if its smaller in size. There are some coveys I used to hunt near Holomb that would hold 30-50 birds consistently and they were smart as hell! Hence their high #'s so I didnt feel bad chasing them around a bit more. They normally just gave me fits and Id only end up with 1-4 before they all vanished. I dont think Ive ever come across a covey as smart as the large 50 bird one Id always see. Theyd run like pheasants, scatter in all directions, hold so tight youd have to step on one before theyd fly and employ all sorts of tactics. It always made for a fun hunt. Quail hunting will always be my first love but pheasants help to take the place for the time being.
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