Minnesota Hunter does not deserve his dog

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Chrisco5111

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I don't know who you are but you do. I hope you are on this board and read this and rethink your philosophy about your dogs.

I was hunting north of Stockton, KS on Monday and we were driving down a road and my buddy Joe sees a GWP running thru a field. The dog then starts following us down the road so we stop to check it out. The other guys with us stop and get out to greet the dog and she jumps right in the front passenger seat.

She is obviously lost, her orange vest is torn and she is terrified. Luckily, we think at the time, she's has info on her collar. We call the owner and they are 6 miles away looking for her. It takes forever to even describe where we are and they finally show up. When they get there driving their Suburban the owner gets out and starts saying that he's surprised that she came to us and that she's really skittish. The guy then walks up to the car the dog is in and she won't even get out of the car to come to him. The guy then pulls her out of the truck and begins walking her to their truck. During the walk he takes off his hat and smacks her in the head. The dog is cowering the entire time.

When we saw the guy hit the dog we about came unglued. Then we find out that he's got another dog lost too.


Who ever you are I hope some nice kid in KS now has a good looking GWP as a pet. I hope you never see your other dog again because it is obvious that you are not a good dog owner. That dog did not know why she was being punished and you hit her because you were embarrassed because you lost your dog.

Oh yeah, when someone finds your dog it is the right thing to make sure and say THANKS.

You are a bad person and a poor representative of your great sport. You need to rethink your approach to dogs and maybe you should just go back to Ice Fishing. You can whip your fishing rod all you want, Prick.

If any of you guys know who I'm talking about tell him how I feel. If you read this you Prick then I hope you identify yourself so the rest of us can distance ourselves from you as much as possible.

Chris
 
Makes you sick. I had a similar situation last week, but it wasn't a hunting dog. The dog didn't have id, but even if it did I won't have called because it had been abused and malnourished.
 
Did you keep the jerks number? Call and report his butt to the ASPCA or something. Better yet, google him, find out where he lives and go rescue that dog!!! Then again, MN is pretty far away. Find out where he's staying and go rescue that pup!!! There's no need for people like that to have a dog! I'd be one to fight someone over mistreating a dog!
 
Delete my post? a slap with your hunting hat? I can't believe people are loosing their mind over this. You don't have to wonder where discipline went with our kids. It was only a hunting hat..it isn't as if he kicked the dog in the ribs. Disagree with his method but come on. You would really flip out if you went to many pro trainers and watched behind the scenes. Ear pinching, pliers, force fetch, Etc.

I think this place is starting to resemble that of a PETA commercial.

I'll give ya a good job for finding the dog and making the effort to locate the owner but I don't agree with the extreme abuse you are trying to read into this
 
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onpoint said:
I think this place is starting to resemble that of a PETA commercial.
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I'm new to the site, but onpoint, you are the same guy who was saying the other day you would turn a blind eye to illegal behavior and not turn anyone in. I'm seeing a pattern develop in your philosophy in my brief time here.

I wasn't there as a witness but it isn't hard for even a casual observer to see when a dog is cowering and fearful of a handler. Dog's are communicating with non-verbals 100% of the time. The dog should respond with joy to his/her owner due to the emotional bond that should exist. If the dog did cower it should have been in an attempt to apologize for what it would see as a failure. I'm not saying the dog did anything wrong, but if it felt like it did it would want to be accepted back by the pack at all cost.

When my dog feels like it has made a mistake it will crawl out of it's skin to try and say sorry. A dog will die to please you if they love you.

It takes a lot to get a dog to act the way this one did because it is part of the DNA to please the Alpha. It is in their very nature not to act the way this dog did.
 
NCKHusker said:
I'm new to the site, but onpoint, you are the same guy who was saying the other day you would turn a blind eye to illegal behavior and not turn anyone in. I'm seeing a pattern develop in your philosophy in my brief time here.

I wasn't there as a witness but it isn't hard for even a casual observer to see when a dog is cowering and fearful of a handler. Dog's are communicating with non-verbals 100% of the time. The dog should respond with joy to his/her owner due to the emotional bond that should exist. If the dog did cower it should have been in an attempt to apologize for what it would see as a failure. I'm not saying the dog did anything wrong, but if it felt like it did it would want to be accepted back by the pack at all cost.

When my dog feels like it has made a mistake it will crawl out of it's skin to try and say sorry. A dog will die to please you if they love you.

It takes a lot to get a dog to act the way this one did because it is part of the DNA to please the Alpha. It is in their very nature not to act the way this dog did.
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Very nice post. Especially the part in bold.
 
onpoint said:
Delete my post? a slap with your hunting hat? I can't believe people are loosing their mind over this. You don't have to wonder where discipline went with our kids. It was only a hunting hat..it isn't as if he kicked the dog in the ribs. Disagree with his method but come on. You would really flip out if you went to many pro trainers and watched behind the scenes. Ear pinching, pliers, force fetch, Etc.

I think this place is starting to resemble that of a PETA commercial.

I'll give ya a good job for finding the dog and making the effort to locate the owner but I don't agree with the extreme abuse you are trying to read into this
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Why? Because we don't have the same set of standards on dog breeders (other posts on another thread)?

Hitting the dog (hand, stick, hat, foot kick etc...) does nothing for the handler-dog relationship and I repeat nothing at the point it occured in this incident. While it may act as some sort of stress relief to the owner, the whole incident was over for the dog ... make him happy he has returned to the pack and start thinking about what unfolded to allow him to run off in the 1st place.

You DO NOT want a lost or to-far-out dog to fear coming back to you because of punishment.

Regarding hitting, stimulation collars, etc.... on dogs. They all are important when used at the right time in the right way.

Each breed of dog and each individual dog is different in how they respond to their owner. I know with my Brittanys that my voice is more often enough, if not simply pinning them down and talking to them is next.

I can say all this because I have OCCASSIONALLY reacted the way the guy did in the original story ... I now realize that it did nothing but make me feel better for a couple minutes. Nothing wrong with discussing this so maybe some other guys new to dogs to not repeat or repeatedly make this same mistake.
 
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BRITTMAN said:
I can say all this because I have OCCASSIONALLY reacted the way the guy did in the original story ... I now realize that it did nothing but make me feel better for a couple minutes. Nothing wrong with discussing this so maybe some other guys new to dogs to not repeat or repeatedly make this same mistake.
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I have wrongly had human reactions to my dog as well. I almost ruined him on his first hunt several years ago because I was so eager to have him hunt I didn't listen to him tell me he was having a bad day and wanted to quit for the day. Luckily, I noticed it in the end but had to pay a pro over $300 to help me fix a problem I created.

Also, it may seem like semantics to us (but not to the dog), there is a BIG difference between discipline and correction. Proper correction will produce a great dog. In my opinion, discipline is almost never helpful.

Here is an example. You have a puppy that bites and it needs to stop. Every time it bites you correct it by quickly but firmly pressing it's lips into it's Sharp teeth and say "NO BITING." The key here is to do it right away and quickly. This is correction.

On the other hand, the dog bites you and you want to get back at it because hurts so you pin the dog down for 30 seconds while chewing it out. You continue to discipline the dog with an ongoing assertion of dominance. This is discipline, however, the dog can't speak English so it has no idea what is happening. It certainly doesn't connect the dots from being pinned to the ground and biting. Dog's don't get discipline, they get correction.

I use a shock collar but haven't shocked him in I don't know how long. I use it because it has a audio stimuli and it is also part of his field routine.

If you are interested in what I did wrong here it is. When my dog was just a young guy I took him to my buddies ranch in Nebraska to do a prairie chicken hunt. Right in the yard before the hunt my buddies dog bit my dog. Then 15 minutes into the hunt he got hung up in an electric fence he didn't see. He was screaming while he was caught by the neck for about 7 seconds. After that he stepped full force with both front paws on a bed of cactus.

I should have put him away but I didn't. MY MISTAKE. When we shot the first shots he didn't see the birds and it caught him off guard. He became skittish around the gun. I had worked with him before this with guns but the sum total of the day...he had enough and he was done.

At one point he was just laying in the back of the truck and wouldn't get out no matter how much I called. He just cowered. That is when I knew I wasn't listening to what he wanted to tell me.

Nothing about his day was positive for him and he was trying to tell me. I was stupidly thinking, "I know you will like hunting, here just let me show you." After the hunt I reflected on what had happened and took him to a trainer that could help him associate the gun with the bird. He is VERY birdie. He loves to hunt today and I can't even open my gun safe without him all over me for the next several hours. HE LOVES TO HUNT.
 
I will only say one thing! You can't tell someone how to raise their children and you can't tell someone how to raise their dogs!! You may want to, but you will not like it if you are on the other end!!! Some do not deserve either, but a smack with a hat is just that , a smack with the hat! Hopefully he will learn to train his dogs better!!!:cheers:
 
Several responses are focusing on the hat. I agree that it’s not the end of the world. I’ve hit my dog with my hat when he tries to get a little closer then he should to my meal. The hat is soft and the dog is fine. However, according to the original there was A LOT more to this story then a hat trick.

From the eye witness account the dog was “terrified.”

The owner claimed the dog was “skittish” and was surprised she came to the hunters. Seems odd that a skittish dog would willingly chase down and jump in the cab of strangers. Perhaps the owner is doing something wrong beyond a tap with a hat.

Direct quote: “The guy then walks up to the car the dog is in and she won't even get out of the car to come to him. The guy then pulls her out of the truck and begins walking her to their truck. During the walk he takes off his hat and smacks her in the head. The dog is cowering the entire time.” (bold added)

This story isn’t about a hat guys, it’s about a dog that is being mishandled and needed some help. If the mishandling rises to the level of abuse is unknown. We don’t have the whole picture. However, it doesn’t have to be abusive or criminal to be wrong. It is safe to say we “saw” enough here to assume that this dog owner needs to change some of his ways. The hit with the hat was just the icing on the cake.
 
I have witnessed skittish dogs after they were lost for a time. These dogs were never abused and were skittish because they got out of sight of their owner and got freaked out! I am not saying this guy was or was not abusive. Sounds like the dog was just happy finding a human!! His actions might have not been the correct thing to do, and he might not know any better. Hopefully he learned a little bit about training and dog personality!! Are party lost a dog for 3 hours and the guy was so upset because his wife told him not to come home if he didn't find the dog! His brother gave him so much grief about the dog being untrained that when we got back to the farm the dog was there and he hid that dog for 20 minutes before he broke down and told his brother. He then told him that dog had no buisness being out again until you train it!!! Good post and I hope people read and learn from this!!!:cheers:
 
Sorry boys, I don't make a habit of corporal punishment of my dogs, or Kids, but a slap with a hat? Dogs bite harder than that playing with each other. None of you know anything about that dog, that owner, or the background. All you have are assumptions, and wild conjecture. Owner undoubtedly embarrassed by the turn of events, admittedly could have been more gracious, both to the "rescuers", and the dog. But maybe the guy has spent all his hunting time looking for the dog! He's tired, worried, humiliated. Turn a guy into the ASPCA? Who's side are you on, anyway? Do you even have a clue as to the agenda of ASPCA, or Humane Society? Like they actually give a damn about a dog! Look what they spend their money on. Onpoints comments about pro trainer techniques, dead on. I won't offend your delicate sensibilities with details. My advice, Read a little more, get informed, write blogs a little less. " about come unglued", well address the issue yourself, directly to the offender, right at the time off the offense, if you think it warrants it. Nobody likes a tattle tale. didn't Momma teach you that.
 
onpoint said:
Delete my post? a slap with your hunting hat? I can't believe people are loosing their mind over this. You don't have to wonder where discipline went with our kids. It was only a hunting hat..it isn't as if he kicked the dog in the ribs. Disagree with his method but come on. You would really flip out if you went to many pro trainers and watched behind the scenes. Ear pinching, pliers, force fetch, Etc.

I think this place is starting to resemble that of a PETA commercial.

I'll give ya a good job for finding the dog and making the effort to locate the owner but I don't agree with the extreme abuse you are trying to read into this
Click to expand...
I deleted the post......I was trying to keep it from adding fuel to the fire, but it seems like that is what you want! This is a touchy subject for alot of folks, hence the deletion to try and keep peace on the board.
 
Just maybe the dog is gun shy and it took off after gun fire. He was frustrated and hit the dog with his hat. Pleases use some common sense!
 
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