Meaningful debate

SetterNut said:
I don't know of many people that get after pheasants out in the big wheat stubble fields.
That became my older (3) setter's specialty last season.
What a blast. And we shot birds when nobody else was getting birds.
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The dogs can run, you can see them, You just follow the dog, and hardly any hunters walk them unless they form a line and push the field, and that aint my style , I dont do lines.
 
js, Got me a new pair of boots and getting em broke in good. Can't wait to get the pup into one of those mile sections of grass and thick stuff. Let her go and follow. I know she will find the birds, might put on some miles.
I'm betting I'll get some limit pics of all wild all wily mature roosters. :cheers:

Nothing like a good Lab in the thick stuff.
I hate hunting stubble.:) So me and the pups avoid it.
 
keskam said:
The dogs can run, you can see them, You just follow the dog, and hardly any hunters walk them unless they form a line and push the field, and that aint my style , I dont do lines.
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Two years ago late in the season out in NW Ks we hunted a bunch of wiha that had been pounded. The birds were really spooky, and were flushing several hundred yards out in front of the Hunters and dogs. We watched another party hunting a draw and Milo field. We watched bird leaving the draw and Milo before the group with there dog got 50 yards into the field. Several of the pheasants flew into a 1/2 section of 4-6" high wheat stubble. Not something that you would think was worth hunting.

When we finished walking the draw we were in, the boys (son and his friends) sat down to rest and I started to walk across th stubble field to get the truck. Ace my 3yo went with me and was casting way out. Several hundred yards. He went on point 356 yards out and I made my way to him. He was standing off a tumble weed about 30+ yards. As I walk out front of him, up came a rooster, which I killed. That got the boys attention :D

We spent the next hour following Ace around this huge stubble field. Ace had several birds that ran out from under his points. I would release him, he would relocate. I think this is where he learned to swing out down wind rather than follow foot scent. We had some that flushes wild, but we shot more birds in that field than we shot the rest of the weekend.
 
SetterNut said:
We had some that flushes wild, but we shot more birds in that field than we shot the rest of the weekend.
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Good to know because when no-till came in and all the stubble fields were sprayed post-harvest and had no weeds in them come pheasant season, I sort of lost interest in them. But the pheasants have not lost interest.
 
BritChaser said:
Good to know because when no-till came in and all the stubble fields were sprayed post-harvest and had no weeds in them come pheasant season, I sort of lost interest in them. But the pheasants have not lost interest.
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Before that we never hunted something that short or big. It had very little weeds in it. But it had draws on 2+ sides of it.
 
SetterNut said:
How about another dog/pheasant topic.
What way do you think is the most effective way for a dog to hunt pheasants.

Me being a pointing dog guy may have different likes an options than some of the flushing guys, but here goes.

First off the pheasants need to be pointed. Birds that are not pointed are not shot by me.

Now the good debate point. How do you like to see your dog handle runners?

For me, I want the dog to point on first scent and not move until I relocate the dog. Then I don't want the dog following foot scent. I like to see them swing out down wind looking for body scent. I find that this method is very effective pinning runners with fewer wild flushed.
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Just some food for thought on this topic. How do you define "most effective"? What is the standard to be used for comparison and measurement? Especially when we are talking about dogs working a bird that will use every trick in the book to get away and I don't believe that should be held against the bird.

I have read of pheasant dogs that were cautious and stealthy while others were bolder and described as the "pin-em or bust-em" type. I remember one rooster where my little Setter looked like a cutting horse, she pointed and relocated 3 times in a space no bigger than the free throw lane on a basketball court until she finally pinned that rooster and gave me one of my least favorite shots. The rooster flushed right in my face and I had to let him get out a little way before I could take the shot.

I agree that birds should be pointed and I prefer a dog that doesn't trail or work ground scent but keeps a high head but other than that I like to see a dog figure it out on their own.
 
I don't know that there is a "most effective" way that works for every situation.
The areas we have to hunt here are different than what other areas of the country.
 
One of the coolest sights I see every year is by Medicine Lake National Wildlife Refuge, Just too the north of the refuge are huge stubble fields, which draw in the birds come morning time. When I lived in Lake I would take my dogs for walks out that way and it was incredible how hundreds and hundreds of of 3-4 lb birds, some as colorfull as you could imagine, could dissapear in these fields. It was and is incredible. Ofcourse after opening day when all the yahoos would sit along the stubble, waiting to pass shoot them or the road hunters would blast away they became alot more wary . Some of the best hunting I have ever had has been in stubble fields, on the right day, it can be awesome!
 
SetterNut said:
While it may sound like not shooting wild flushes is reducing the number of birds you shoot, it is really the other way around in the long run. My dogs are pretty young at 3 and 1 years old. If I start shooting birds they bump they will bump more and more. Soon you could end up with a 200 yard flushing dog.

But if you let the birds go that they don't handle correctly, they learn to.

Once you have an established and experienced pointing dog for pheasants, I doubt that shooting a wild flush now and then is a problem. But by that time your dog make few mistakes, and you are getting plenty of pointed shots.
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dont know if i agree the whole way steve if my dog is working on a phez pointing relocating so on so forth and the bird blows out i will take him pheasants are so jumpy so unpredictable i know and you know your dogs are staunch mine as well but if they were to bump quail now thats a whole different story i think they should be sticking them i dont need to shoot them im there to have fun watch the dogs. on young dogs if they were bumping quail i definately wouldnt shoot thats how they learn for sure it makes them more careful kinda like get more serious with there nose i guess?
 
only a pointer said:
dont know if i agree the whole way steve if my dog is working on a phez pointing relocating so on so forth and the bird blows out i will take him pheasants are so jumpy so unpredictable i know and you know your dogs are staunch mine as well but if they were to bump quail now thats a whole different story i think they should be sticking them i dont need to shoot them im there to have fun watch the dogs. on young dogs if they were bumping quail i definately wouldnt shoot thats how they learn for sure it makes them more careful kinda like get more serious with there nose i guess?
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There is no question that some of the pheasants that flush are not the dogs fault, that I don't shoot. I am being anal picky with them when they are young.

But shooting a few more bird is secondary to me at this point in their development.
 
It is simple you need a gun a dog and some birds:) I don't like to shoot birds that were not pointed or handled correctly but sometimes I find it necessary as the dog did its job and the bird didn't play fair. I really am more of a quail guy now days as they are the real gentlemen of the sport, when out done they comply where as a jumpy old rooster is no better than a cheat.

All this has me so sad that I won't be here for the season. Although I hate to leave my two ladies I had to accept a job offer in Dubai. I won't make it back for this season but I will be able to hunt them some next year. After looking both on here and out and about I don't feel too bad about leaving this year do to the fact that the birds really aren't here.

However you guys choose to hunt enjoy it because a good dog by whatever standards you judge them by are gone all to quick. Good luck this season and happy hunting.
 
SetterNut said:
Two years ago late in the season out in NW Ks we hunted a bunch of wiha that had been pounded. The birds were really spooky, and were flushing several hundred yards out in front of the Hunters and dogs. We watched another party hunting a draw and Milo field. We watched bird leaving the draw and Milo before the group with there dog got 50 yards into the field. Several of the pheasants flew into a 1/2 section of 4-6" high wheat stubble. Not something that you would think was worth hunting.

When we finished walking the draw we were in, the boys (son and his friends) sat down to rest and I started to walk across th stubble field to get the truck. Ace my 3yo went with me and was casting way out. Several hundred yards. He went on point 356 yards out and I made my way to him. He was standing off a tumble weed about 30+ yards. As I walk out front of him, up came a rooster, which I killed. That got the boys attention :D

We spent the next hour following Ace around this huge stubble field. Ace had several birds that ran out from under his points. I would release him, he would relocate. I think this is where he learned to swing out down wind rather than follow foot scent. We had some that flushes wild, but we shot more birds in that field than we shot the rest of the weekend.
Click to expand...

In Colorado there was a 1/2 mile by 1/2mile patch of god awful 4 foot switchgrass and the hunters were attacking it, just to the east there was a walkin 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile of one foot high Brougham? that butted up right against it. and not one hunter went out in that prairie grass and hunted it, they all fought the switchgrass.
I waited until most headed for another field and grabbed a couple of dogs and it was so productive i couldnt hardly believe it, It was like alot of the birds ran out into it and sat down, Shot some birds unloaded the gun and grabbed a couple more dogs and let them do there thing, alot of the birds ran and then sat, and the dogs learned alot IMO on working them....
 
keskam said:
In Colorado there was a 1/2 mile by 1/2mile patch of god awful 4 foot switchgrass and the hunters were attacking it, just to the east there was a walkin 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile of one foot high Brougham? that butted up right against it. and not one hunter went out in that prairie grass and hunted it, they all fought the switchgrass.
I waited until most headed for another field and grabbed a couple of dogs and it was so productive i couldnt hardly believe it, It was like alot of the birds ran out into it and sat down, Shot some birds unloaded the gun and grabbed a couple more dogs and let them do there thing, alot of the birds ran and then sat, and the dogs learned alot IMO on working them....
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I think we get to looking for the ideal cover. When the birds are not there, or have been pushed out, some of the thinner stuff can pay off. It may take a little different approach in the short thin stuff.
 
Montana Husker said:
One of the coolest sights I see every year is by Medicine Lake National Wildlife Refuge, Just too the north of the refuge are huge stubble fields, which draw in the birds come morning time. When I lived in Lake I would take my dogs for walks out that way and it was incredible how hundreds and hundreds of of 3-4 lb birds, some as colorfull as you could imagine, could dissapear in these fields. It was and is incredible. Ofcourse after opening day when all the yahoos would sit along the stubble, waiting to pass shoot them or the road hunters would blast away they became alot more wary . Some of the best hunting I have ever had has been in stubble fields, on the right day, it can be awesome!
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You brought back some great memories. On the north side of the refuge just south of the tar road running east/west of medicin lake I shot a lot of birds in some of the easier walking ever. But they are BIG fields.....rather intimidating?
 
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